Ashoura crazy night (8 Viewers)

[Hist]

indeed...just another one of snake_midget's many attempts to gain attention

oh i am a great attention whore. I seriously am and will not deny it. Apparently it worked



Anyway, Ashoura is celebrated this way every year in a lot of countries where Shiites live. Its not just a small minority if millions do it every year in different countries. Ahmadi's or Bahaa`ists are a minority and they are viewed as non-islamic by the muslim world. But they certainly are products of Islam.

I intended to post another video from a documentary called "I am Sufi & I am a Muslim". These extreme sufis make these shiites look like amateurs in comparison. I've seen that documentary in a history course and it is ugly my friend. Way worst than this.

My intention of this thread is to give another outstanding example of how faith is dangerous (regardless of the religion is stems from).

(Scripture being so open for interpretation + Culture/human psychology) X (Faith) = irrational dangerous shit or irrational good shit.
As long as rationality is being stepped on by faith.. i will continue to be anti-religious and will try to make sure that this stupidity ends.

 

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[Zé Tahir]

It is a small minority. We have people in this very thread from different parts of the Islamic world saying it. Unless you've traveled the world during Ashura and studied this and can produce some numbers I suggest you be careful making such a statement.

What you trying to say about Ahmadi's btw? You kinda threw that in there without saying what you mean.

 

[Hist]

No you're completely right and i agree with you.

But these people know nothing about their own religion, a lot of them bring their kids with them and make them do this shit. I've seen loads of pics with small kids crying and their dads opening their heads up with knives. Its disgusting.

Shiism is not mentioned in the Quran too ya know.. politics caused them then culture spiced things up and made two sects with somewhat different practices.


btw, you earlier said that no one could prove you wrong and someone replied by telling you that the load of proving is on you. Russell's teapot is why:

In an article entitled "Is There a God?",[1] commissioned, but never published, by Illustrated magazine in 1952, Russell wrote:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.[2]

Well basically you can't prove that pink unicorns do not exist or jinn or angels or ghosts or God or Russell's teapot. If i were to claim that unicorns exist and you didnt believe me, i could always act religious about it and say you cant prove they don't.
The burden of proof is on the one giving the hypothesis.

 

[Zé Tahir]

I don't really remember saying that but in any case: I personally don't have to present anything to anyone. The Qur'an is the book sent to us by God, if a person cannot, after reading it and understanding it, believe in the existence of God then so be it.

If proving God's existence was as 'easy' or as retarded as simply saying he exists out there similar to the teapot analogy then the point of sending prophets and holy books would be pointless.

 

[Hist]

I don't really remember saying that but in any case: I personally don't have to present anything to anyone. The Qur'an is the book sent to us by God, if a person cannot, after reading it and understanding it, believe in the existence of God then so be it.

If proving God's existence was as 'easy' or as retarded as simply saying he exists out there similar to the teapot analogy then the point of sending prophets and holy books would be pointless.

If we witnessed the prophets with God's miracles and still chose not to believe in God out of arrogance or wanting the pleasures of life then yes every one of us none believers deserves hell.

But given the circumstances that we are at now.. punishing me for not believing in a book that: says stories that experience teaches us that they could not happen, has scientific mistakes, promises that are not kept, moral codes that are 1000 years old and most of all requires absolute faith in the truthfulness of its articles.... that is unfair. Especially that history gave a thousand other books that you'd now call myths even if they are more or less the same thing.

All of that + not having one single reason, be it philosophical or scientific, to have belief in the deity itself's existence regardless of what form it is in or which book it wrote.......

Fuck man, what kind of infinitely just being gives a test that cannot be solved and then punishes who fails.

You cant really claim that God is thinking: I am not going to show them miracles.... i'll show them STORIES of miracles hidden in 1000 years books that they cant interpret it definitely.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

If we witnessed the prophets with God's miracles and still chose not to believe in God out of arrogance or wanting the pleasures of life then yes every one of us none believers deserves hell.

But given the circumstances that we are at now.. punishing me for not believing in a book that: says stories that experience teaches us that they could not happen, has scientific mistakes, promises that are not kept, moral codes that are 1000 years old and most of all requires absolute faith in the truthfulness of its articles.... that is unfair. Especially that history gave a thousand other books that you'd now call myths even if they are more or less the same thing.

All of that + not having one single reason, be it philosophical or scientific, to have belief in the deity itself's existence regardless of what form it is in or which book it wrote.......

Fuck man, what kind of infinitely just being gives a test that cannot be solved and then punishes who fails.

You cant really claim that God is thinking: I am not going to show them miracles.... i'll show them STORIES of miracles hidden in 1000 years books that they cant interpret it definitely.

where did you come up with that concept?

 

[Hist]

where did you come up with that concept?

Whatever i say is objectively true and eternal.


Do you think its fair? punishing someone for having the wrong opinion about something he cannot understand?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Whatever i say is objectively true and eternal.


Do you think its fair? punishing someone for having the wrong opinion about something he cannot understand?

no sorry my question wasnt clear enough, i meant this concept of fairness where do you derive it from? surely nature isnt "fair", so where does this come from?

 

[Hist]

no sorry my question wasnt clear enough, i meant this concept of fairness where do you derive it from? surely nature isnt "fair", so where does this come from?

Justice is an artificial concept but a necessary product of the human condition given the circumstances (which is more reason to me God doesnt give eternal moral orders). The details of what is and what isn't Just/fair are subjective.

If you are intending to translate fair as equal and attempt to imply that since thats the case for all human beings then god is fair, I would still reject this on the basis that some people actually witnessed the "prophets" and their super powers If not God himself.


So ya.. my concept of whats right and wrong comes from my experience. My concept of equality is mathematical and on both grounds God doesnt seem like a fair anthropomorphised being.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

you still havent answered my question, artificial or not where did YOU come up with it outside religious context? And just because you were born into a society that adopts some of its precepts why should you adhere to it? like i said theres nothing fair about "survival of the fittest" and thats the way of nature.

 

[Ahmed]

If we witnessed the prophets with God's miracles and still chose not to believe in God out of arrogance or wanting the pleasures of life then yes every one of us none believers deserves hell.

But given the circumstances that we are at now.. punishing me for not believing in a book that: says stories that experience teaches us that they could not happen, has scientific mistakes, promises that are not kept, moral codes that are 1000 years old and most of all requires absolute faith in the truthfulness of its articles.... that is unfair. Especially that history gave a thousand other books that you'd now call myths even if they are more or less the same thing.

All of that + not having one single reason, be it philosophical or scientific, to have belief in the deity itself's existence regardless of what form it is in or which book it wrote.......

Fuck man, what kind of infinitely just being gives a test that cannot be solved and then punishes who fails.

You cant really claim that God is thinking: I am not going to show them miracles.... i'll show them STORIES of miracles hidden in 1000 years books that they cant interpret it definitely.

was God the one who punished/is still punishing you for being a non-believer?

 

[Hist]

you still havent answered my question, artificial or not where did YOU come up with it outside religious context? And just because you were born into a society that adopts some of its precepts why should you adhere to it? like i said theres nothing fair about "survival of the fittest" and thats the way of nature.

I did not come up with the concept of justice its not an act of one single man. I am not sure i am getting the question.

Nature is not fair in the human sense but God must be because being infinitely just include fairness.

are you implying that nature is not Just yet its real why can't god be unjust yet real too?
for starters that doesn't give you theism the way we know it. Deism maybe but even that fails to justify God's existence like theism does. Its basically theism without the books & prophets which is in contrast with Ze Tahir's post.

 

[HelterSkelter]

If you people think this is retarded,you havent seen what goes on in Moharram here.With all due respect to Shia's,9th and 10th of Moharram is like a huge street theatre here.

 

[king Ale]

Actually, 10th of Moharram is Ahsoura

 

[HelterSkelter]

Yeah.Whatever

 

[JBF]

Ahsoura?

 

[Hist]

Ashoura is also a type of food..... is there a connection?

 

[Ventus]

I've never understood this hitting yourself thing ? At my university , bradford, their was a whole street full of people implicating as much damage as possible.

 

[Siamak]

When I woke up morning i decided to walk and i saw some people who performing ashura Opera i took many pictures of their performing in the street

 

[Lapa]

I don't have words for this stupidity.