Arthur (61 Viewers)

[singus]

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2021/06/twenty-for-euro-2020-players-to-watch/

Everyone in here riding the popular opinion, that dude cant pass. LOL

Imagine what he could do in a functioning team, and with some better fitness.

 

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[U Picciriddu]

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2021/06/twenty-for-euro-2020-players-to-watch/

Everyone in here riding the popular opinion, that dude cant pass. LOL

Imagine what he could do in a functioning team, and with some better fitness.

Nice stats. The hate is exaggerated here, imagine being Barcelona in this situation. As sad as it is, we needed that plusvalenza deal and we got the best out of it imo. I’m curious to see how he will do with more suited tactics, Allegri and hopefully no crazy injury. Pirlo was so naive using him in a midfield of 2 CMs

 

[singus]

Im not saying Arthur is fucking great, he had a meh season as the rest of the team. But he is definitely being shat on for no particular reason other than being easy to dislike and for replacing Pjanic whom many will defend till death. Arthur can turn out as a massive flop, but he might turn out as a big win as well. In 1-2 years we may have a player who could be worth 50-100M. Had we kept Pjanic we would have a retired player worth 0.

 

[Boksic]

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2021/06/twenty-for-euro-2020-players-to-watch/

Everyone in here riding the popular opinion, that dude cant pass. LOL

Imagine what he could do in a functioning team, and with some better fitness.

Proves very little other than he plays a lot of passes. It doesn't mean they are good passes, it doesn't mean they contribute much, it doesn't say the distance of the passes, it doesn't show the passes he doesn't play because he doesn't spot runs.

Stats don't prove much in isolation.

 

[zizinho]

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2021/06/twenty-for-euro-2020-players-to-watch/

Everyone in here riding the popular opinion, that dude cant pass. LOL

Imagine what he could do in a functioning team, and with some better fitness.

What does your eye tell you?

 

[singus]

Proves very little other than he plays a lot of passes. It doesn't mean they are good passes, it doesn't mean they contribute much, it doesn't say the distance of the passes, it doesn't show the passes he doesn't play because he doesn't spot runs.

Stats don't prove much in isolation.

He plays the MOST SUCCESSFUL PASSES AND CARRIES (or turns) in all of Serie A, in a dysfunctioning team, with quite a distance.

The main argument against Arthur is that he cant pass and that he cant bring the ball forward. You said it multiple times yourself.

 

[Enron]

Forward passes don’t equate to bringing the ball forward.

 

[singus]

What does your eye tell you?

That it is probably gonna be fruitless to discuss this with you, as you will keep seeking a loophole to try to hate on Pjanic' replacement and want your almost retired national hero back, even if it will hurt our club.

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Forward passes don’t equate to bringing the ball forward.

Can you elaborate?

 

[jukazem]

Can you elaborate?

Compare to the forward passes of a goal-keeper

 

[Enron]

That it is probably gonna be fruitless to discuss this with you, as you will keep seeking a loophole to try to hate on Pjanic' replacement and want your almost retired national hero back, even if it will hurt our club.

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Can you elaborate?

A forward pass to a player a few feet away doesn’t move the ball forward much, especially if the ball is immediately returned or whatever. Since we don’t know where the passes go or where they start, we can’t say much. Statistically, all you can say is he makes a lot of forward passes. However, combining that statistic with something like a positional or passing heat map and carries would better prove your point.

note: I dont care either way about Arthur just like stats and maps

 

[singus]

A forward pass to a player a few feet away doesn’t move the ball forward much, especially if the ball is immediately returned or whatever. Since we don’t know where the passes go or where they start, we can’t say much. Statistically, all you can say is he makes a lot of forward passes. However, combining that statistic with something like a positional or passing heat map and carries would better prove your point.

note: I dont care either way about Arthur just like stats and maps

Thanks, and I agree with you.

And again, Im not trying to claim that Arthur is some world beater. But in the limited time he has played for us so far, I think we have seen mixed output. Some positive, some negative.

As I posted earlier, we have actually gotten significantly better results (more points) when he has played. And in terms of successful passes and ball carries, a lot of output.

Obviously that doesnt mean that he showed Pirloesque passing range or through balls. That is something I agree that has been missing (from whole team), and where the judge is still out. As well as his fitness levels, tactical and defensive contributions.

 

[Juventinoo]

I would like to add to the discussion,

our problem is that we lack a mid leader so Arthur and the rest complements with him ...

those fellas Benta, Mckinne, Rabiot , Arthur are not leaders , they cant carry the mid by themselves .... they cant give the right decision when needed ... they need a boss to tell them..similar like a work environment ..only the boss who drive his lazy , un confident , insecure employees to success ...so.they need that boss to lead them during the game ...

this summer we should finish this business that should be done since Pogba / Pirlo/ Vidal departures ....

getting Locatelli will not solve it
Getting a finished Pjanic will not solve it

lets wait and see

 

[il brutto]

He plays the MOST SUCCESSFUL PASSES AND CARRIES (or turns) in all of Serie A, in a dysfunctioning team, with quite a distance.

The main argument against Arthur is that he cant pass and that he cant bring the ball forward. You said it multiple times yourself.

Yes and the bolded part is true or at least it was true for last season. His passing ability is pretty average at best. The critique has always been about being too conservative with his passing. I would actually cherish it if his pass completion % dropped a bit because it would most likely mean that he has at least tried to be bit braver with his passing. You're also mixing carries with progressive carries here. He's nowhere near the top for progressive carries (i.e. bringing the ball forward) in Serie A.

Arthur's main asset is his ability to keep the ball under pressure. If the goal in football would be to just keep possession Arthur would be a fantastic player. However if Arthur wants to actually become a good football player he needs to add more variation to his game. Just dribbling side to side and passing to the nearest teammate won't cut it.

It's still early for him, but thus far he looks like style over substance type of player. He is really good at keeping and recycling possession, but I'm not sure that is the kind of team Pirlo wants us to be. If he wants to succeed here, he needs to start taking more risks with his passing and limit the amount of touches he takes on the ball imo. He's definitely a technically gifted player though so I'm hoping that with time and the right coaching he learns these things.

Basically nothing has changed since I made this post. Let's hope Allegri can be that right coach that gets these things into his head.

 

[zizinho]

That it is probably gonna be fruitless to discuss this with you, as you will keep seeking a loophole to try to hate on Pjanic' replacement and want your almost retired national hero back, even if it will hurt our club.

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Can you elaborate?

What hurt the club more is this bum you like costing us games the few times a year he plays, while being 25M a year expensive. Pjanic with white hair and grandchildren will be twice the player. Bit nice way of avoiding the question

 

[singus]

Yes and the bolded part is true or at least it was true for last season. His passing ability is pretty average at best. The critique has always been about being too conservative with his passing. I would actually cherish it if his pass completion % dropped a bit because it would most likely mean that he has at least tried to be bit braver with his passing. You're also mixing carries with progressive carries here. He's nowhere near the top for progressive carries (i.e. bringing the ball forward) in Serie A.

Arthur's main asset is his ability to keep the ball under pressure. If the goal in football would be to just keep possession Arthur would be a fantastic player. However if Arthur wants to actually become a good football player he needs to add more variation to his game. Just dribbling side to side and passing to the nearest teammate won't cut it.

Basically nothing has changed since I made this post. Let's hope Allegri can be that right coach that gets these things into his head.

Yep, good points. I mostly agree. Those ball carrying skills and smooth passing must have had some real value though, since we won significantly more points when he played than not. There can be some other contributing factors here also, its not a super large sample size, but it is a bit interesting to see.
One thing is for sure, he isnt a Pirlo, Vidal or Pogba, who all had an attacking edge and drive to their play. But hopefully with the right setup, he can be a solid cog in the midfield engine allowing us to control games and bring the ball to our more direct players, and hopefully he can become one himself also. But lets see.

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What hurt the club more is this bum you like costing us games the few times a year he plays, while being 25M a year expensive. Pjanic with white hair and grandchildren will be twice the player. Bit nice way of avoiding the question

Everything in this post is factually wrong. Well done.

 

[zizinho]

Everything in this post is factually wrong. Well done.

Did you get your feelings hurt over a below average lolzilian? Guy got benched by the worst version of bentancur since we got him, cost us points directly, is at 82M+5M net in salary one of the most expensive players we ever had, but im sure you have some stats to show he isnt pure dogshit. While you at it, find some for our other galacticos as well, or you just care about this particular one? Factually wrong

 

[Boksic]

He plays the MOST SUCCESSFUL PASSES AND CARRIES (or turns) in all of Serie A, in a dysfunctioning team, with quite a distance.

The main argument against Arthur is that he cant pass and that he cant bring the ball forward. You said it multiple times yourself.

But the table provides no data on the distance of the pass or what it achieved. A few seasons ago Leon Britton of Swansea had the best passing record in Europe, it didn't make him the best player. Passing a couple of metres to the side frequently would get your number of passes and % completion up but achieve very little.

The "carries" will be him running in circles around the box. While sometimes useful, there have been occasions where he would have been better just moving the ball forward and speeding up play. Again it does not show the distance of the "carry" and what it achieved. I think we all know Arthur does not run with the ball, dribbling past people towards goal like Cuadrado.

My point is that the table shows very little.

I think people are getting increasingly obsessed with stats in football and they don't translate as well as in other sports. While useful at times, you need to look at lots of factors for them to be worthwhile.

 

[Strickland]

What does your eye tell you?

Arthur is very good at passing it short and shockingly bad at long balls and through passes. Which makes him better at passing than any other midfielder in our team except Ramsey.

 

[zizinho]

Arthur is very good at passing it short and shockingly bad at long balls and through passes. Which makes him better at passing than any other midfielder in our team except Ramsey.

He has the short passing and good ball control. Everything else he sucks at, physically, tactically and technically. Which is why even a noob like Pirlo benched him when it mattered most for us towards the end of the season

 

[Strickland]

He has the short passing and good ball control. Everything else he sucks at, physically, tactically and technically. Which is why even a noob like Pirlo benched him when it mattered most for us towards the end of the season

suggesting that a subpar coach like Pirlo would make sensible decisions is a flawed concept though. his midfield set-up was an atrocity, there were not many players apart from Pirlo himself who'd feel comfortable keeping the ball and keeping the passes short at all costs with very limited passing options.