Andrea Pirlo (86 Viewers)

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Amer

Senior Member
Feb 13, 2005
11,309
Well, he's still experimenting. Few weeks ago he said that our 4 midfielders are most suited for a 2 man midfield, and today he went for a 3. Also he used to say Dybala needs to be closer to goal and that guy was like in the middle of the pitch for most of the game.

There is still long way to go for us to hit 100%.
 

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sgjuveboy

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2012
2,723
H
At least Pirlo is willing to try new things. With Sarri there was no progress, and we ended up in the same spot a year later because he had no tactical flexibility whatsoever. We’ll see with Pirlo, but I still trust and have more faith in him that he’ll get this club where it needs to be eventually.
Honestly if the fans are behind Pirlo, the board will be behind him too. The board worries only about the stock price and popularity of the club.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
74,929
Ronaldo's job is to bail us out, that's why he gets paid €30m p/a. You could also say the same for any leading player on a team. Also, he didn't make the through ball to himself or win himself the penalty.

He's been "bailing out" Real Madrid for most of his career. They scored over 100 league goals for all of his seasons apart from his last (94) and the last two years they were down to 63 and 70 respectively. CL final winners, consecutive goals in El Crapico. The guy bosses, nothing else to say.
 

Lion

King of Tuz
Jan 24, 2007
36,185
yeah i don't understand this whole bailing out focus. every team has it. we had it in previous seasons.

before ronaldo is was higgy
before higgy it was dybala and mandzukic
before them it was tevez and morata
before them it was vidal
and so on and so on.

every season. every team there is a player or two that become the bread winners. thats how it works.
 

JuelzSantana

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2017
416
Ronaldo's job is to bail us out, that's why he gets paid €30m p/a. You could also say the same for any leading player on a team. Also, he didn't make the through ball to himself or win himself the penalty.

He's been "bailing out" Real Madrid for most of his career. They scored over 100 league goals for all of his seasons apart from his last (94) and the last two years they were down to 63 and 70 respectively. CL final winners, consecutive goals in El Crapico. The guy bosses, nothing else to say.
Good point but he's also carrying this team mentally. He switched the whole mood of the team just by being present. Real Madrid lost a lot of their fear factor when he departed, the same with us without him.

His contribution goes way beyond just goals, which is worrying cause it's a sign of lack of leadership in the team being so dependent on 1 guy..
 

s4tch

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2015
33,631
Still happy that he’s our manager.
#metoo

and he shouldn't be judged the same way as our previous coaches were judged. this is a completely abnormal season in the middle of a pandemic, with nonexistent pre-season, international breaks every month, the busiest calendar ever in between, and overall practically no time to properly train, create some continuity and make changes.

i just checked our schedule, we'll have 10 matches between 21.11. and 22.12. after the international break.

1.jpg


this is insane.

forza pirlo, it's been an uphill climb from day 1.
 

sgjuveboy

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2012
2,723
yeah i don't understand this whole bailing out focus. every team has it. we had it in previous seasons.

before ronaldo is was higgy
before higgy it was dybala and mandzukic
before them it was tevez and morata
before them it was vidal
and so on and so on.

every season. every team there is a player or two that become the bread winners. thats how it works.
Totally agree. Just like how there is always a brain dead player consistently in Juve starting 11

Before MDS we had khedira
Before Khedira we had Llorente
Before Llorente we had molinaro
Together with molinaro we had a whole generation of turds (Amauri poulsen etc.)
 

PedroFlu

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2011
7,166
If memory serves me right, the most solid game of the season was the very first vs Sampdoria, where a natural LB played as a LWB (Frabotta). A guy who can keep his position, while Cuadrado goes full offense on the other side.

Since then, he hasn't started another game, which is weird. The left has always been a mess defensively.

If Pirlo goes the cautious approach and play him there while fielding 3 CMs, the team should be OK
 
Oct 23, 2011
3,805
If memory serves me right, the most solid game of the season was the very first vs Sampdoria, where a natural LB played as a LWB (Frabotta). A guy who can keep his position, while Cuadrado goes full offense on the other side.

Since then, he hasn't started another game, which is weird. The left has always been a mess defensively.

If Pirlo goes the cautious approach and play him there while fielding 3 CMs, the team should be OK
That's why Sandro's return is crucial. It gives us 1. more options to rotate, and 2. more importantly, the flexible which side of the full-back slots back in the 4-man defense when defending. So far (other than the Samp game) it has always been Cuadrado playing that role of RWB who slots back to form the 4-man defense while the other side (mostly Chiesa) becomes the LM in a 4-man midfield. I'd like to see what Pirlo does when everyone's fit.
 

s4tch

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2015
33,631
just catching up with some stuff i wanted to read. this is from the athletic:

Let the architect work. Now is not the time to judge Pirlo

By James Horncastle Oct 29, 2020

It’s six weeks since Andrea Pirlo was in the classroom presenting his dissertation to the instructors at Coverciano. The 41-year-old completed his UEFA Pro Licence but is still learning. Wednesday’s 2-0 defeat to Barcelona was the biggest test he has faced since then and it did not go as well as Pirlo would have hoped.

Juventus don’t lose often at the Allianz Stadium, particularly in the Champions League. This was only their fourth home defeat in Europe since their new stadium opened nearly a decade ago and while some fans cursed the Old Lady’s rotten luck as Alvaro Morata had a hat-trick of goals chalked off for offside — a feat even Pippo Inzaghi failed to achieve — Pirlo was reluctant to dwell on his side’s continued recent misfortune. “I wouldn’t say (we were unlucky),” he reflected afterwards. “We can’t go clinging onto that.”

Statsbomb’s xG metric mirrored the result almost exactly, with Barcelona producing 2.02 to Juventus’ meagre 0.35. Wojciech Szczesny, the width of the post and the hit-and-miss decision-making of Ousmane Dembele kept the scoreline respectable without discouraging the inevitable extremism of reactions on social media, where Pirlo has predictably already been declared out of his depth. The season is only six games old and, while it’s true Juventus haven’t won a Serie A match since that scintillating opening night against Sampdoria, nothing is compromised.

The defeat was disappointing, come as it did a week on from a routine and businesslike 2-0 win in Ukraine, but last night’s draw in Budapest between Ferencvaros and Dynamo Kyiv makes it even harder to imagine Juventus not qualifying from this group with something to spare as they approach back-to-back games against the Hungarians. It buys Pirlo time to ingrain his ideas and realise the vision he has for the team.

The job he inherited is not as easy as it looks. Juventus retained the title by a single point last season. They lost more league games than both runners-up Inter Milan and third placed Atalanta and, for the first time in nine years, Italy’s best defence did not wear black and white. Even with Cristiano Ronaldo up front, four teams managed to outscore them in Serie A. In Europe, the Bianconeri are going backwards, exiting the competition in the quarter-finals and then the round of 16 in the last two seasons.

An old team needed freshening up and it wasn’t entirely surprising to hear Pirlo point out last night that recent youthful acquisitions Dejan Kulusevski and Federico Chiesa are new to the Champions League and will need time to adjust. As for Arthur, Rodrigo Bentancur, Weston McKennie and Merih Demiral, they may have had a taste of it already but are still in their early 20s and lack experience.

The rejuvenation of the Old Lady goes much deeper than them, too.

One of the positives of Pirlo’s short tenure in Turin has been his willingness to promote from within and give game time to kids like Gianluca Frabotta, Giacomo Vrioni and Manolo Portanova. Usually, players from the club’s under-23 side only make an appearance in the first team at the end of the season, when the championship has already been won. But Pirlo clearly did his homework in anticipation of taking charge of them in Serie C — that is, until the first-team job became vacant upon Maurizio Sarri’s dismissal — and, as the under-23 project enters its third year, there’s a lot to like about his courage in using the youth sector as a resource.

While on the one hand leaning on the under-23s showcases his confidence in the readiness of these players for the elite level, it would also indicate, on the other, the incomplete status of the first team at the moment. A combination of injuries, COVID-19 and the revolving door of the transfer window has denied Pirlo the chance to work with everyone at the same time and field a full-strength, almighty Juventus side. Ronaldo has now missed five games after a positive PCR test while on international duty with Portugal and, while no team should be dependent on one player, the absence of Lionel Messi would be keenly felt at Barcelona, as would that of Robert Lewandowski at Bayern Munich. The five-time Ballon d’Or winner was responsible for more points than any other player in Serie A last season (24) and accounted for 41 per cent of their goals.

His strike partner and last year’s MVP in Serie A, Paulo Dybala, missed the first month of the campaign with the injury he sustained against Sampdoria in July and then picked up a stomach bug while away with Argentina at the start of this month.

Replacements for Gonzalo Higuain and Mario Mandzukic didn’t arrive until late in the window, with Morata not joining until after the season had started and the deal for Chiesa going through on deadline day just over three weeks ago, which was also the start of the international break. At the back, Matthijs de Ligt is only now reaching the end of his rehabilitation from shoulder surgery in August, captain Giorgio Chiellini has played 90 minutes in Serie A only twice since the start of last season and Alex Sandro’s injury on the eve of the campaign raised one or two questions about the decisions to move Luca Pellegrini and Mattia De Sciglio out on loan when Frabotta is the only natural left-sided defender on the squad.

Once everyone is fit and ready to go, it’ll be interesting to see if Juventus have lift-off under Pirlo.

For what it’s worth, his ideas have put smiles back on the players’ faces and captured their imagination. A couple of last year’s signings, Danilo and Aaron Ramsey, are coming good in the hybrid roles he has allocated them. Serie A’s reigning Young Player of the Year, Kulusevski, a disappointment last night, has taken quickly to playing for the champions, finding the net on his debut against Sampdoria and scoring an equaliser in Sunday’s 1-1 draw with Verona. Morata has hit the ground running in his second spell at the club with three goals in his last four appearances. One of the reasons cited for his immediate impact was the fact he stuck around at Continassa during the recent international break. Overlooked for the last Spain squad, Morata was one of the few Juventus players who got to work uninterrupted with Pirlo and his coaching staff. Practically everyone else was away.

juventus-dejan-scaled.jpg


Kulusevski (Photo: Daniele Badolato – Juventus FC/Juventus FC via Getty Images)
The lack of time on the training ground and disruption to Juventus’ preparation has slowed progress. The short turnaround from one season to the next, almost no pre-season to instill bold new concepts, just the one warm-up match to test out ideas in and national teams now calling up bigger squads for blocks of three games compressed into two breaks consisting of qualifiers and unnecessary friendlies have forced Pirlo to experiment in real time. “Shall we say the difficulties were easy to predict,” Juventus’ vice-president Pavel Nedved said before the Barcelona game. “We’ve made a lot of changes. We’ve changed the squad. There’s a new coach. We’re missing some big names. I’m not looking for excuses.”

Football comes down to the finest margins and Juventus are living proof of that this season — not that they will elicit much sympathy. Morata has had five goals disallowed already and hit the post in Crotone; the young Portanova snatched at a chance the former Real Madrid and Chelsea striker created for him in that game; Dybala crashed a shot against the bar at home to Verona, as did Juan Cuadrado. Outside those opportunities, the attack has actually been quite shy. Juventus didn’t have a single shot on target against Barcelona, mustered just the two against Verona and, according to Statsbomb, rank 17th for clear shots in Serie A. The return of Ronaldo will boost those numbers but, even with him, they were fortunate to leave the capital with a point against Roma and keep making life difficult for themselves.

They have finished three of six games down to 10 men and while Chiesa’s red card in Crotone was certainly harsh, the others doled out to Adrien Rabiot at the Olimpico and Demiral last night were justified and serve as another explanation for the team’s timid shot volume because, all told, Juventus have had to play a man down for 80 minutes.

Still, they have conceded just 0.96 xG per 90 minutes, a defensive stat only Napoli and Udinese can better in Serie A. Unfortunately mistakes keep creeping in though, be it the casual misplaced pass Federico Bernardeschi made in the build-up to Verona’s opener last weekend or the avoidable penalties they’ve given away against Roma, Crotone and Barcelona (where poor Bernardeschi was caught out again). In all, Juventus have faced nine spot kicks this calendar year. Bonucci, incidentally, has been responsible for four of them.

“It’s time to grit our teeth, come together, play like a team and bring the best out of each other,” he observed on Wednesday night. “The results are not up to our standards. The thing I’m hopeful about though is we want to play the ball. If we believe in this path and keep improving, we can have a great season.”

The scepticism currently enveloping Pirlo, and Juventus’ choice to hire him, does not come as a surprise to the club’s hierarchy. President Andrea Agnelli is aware eyebrows were raised and the club’s judgment doubted when Pirlo was announced as Sarri’s successor. At Juventus’ AGM earlier this month, he said: “Over Pirlo’s first few weeks, I have the feeling that the world around us can’t wait to judge a couple of defeats. What Pirlo lacked is a pre-season. Me, Pavel, Fabio Paratici and Federico Cherubini are going to be there for him on this journey.”

That journey has only just begun.

As a player, one of the nicknames Pirlo went by was The Architect and, one thing’s for sure, his blueprint for Juventus is clear.

Right now, the foundations are currently being laid. Not all the best materials are available.

When they are, we can judge him.

For now, let him work.
 

DAiDEViL

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2015
64,638
The job he inherited is not as easy as it looks. Juventus retained the title by a single point last season. They lost more league games than both runners-up Inter Milan and third placed Atalanta and, for the first time in nine years, Italy’s best defence did not wear black and white. Even with Cristiano Ronaldo up front, four teams managed to outscore them in Serie A. In Europe, the Bianconeri are going backwards, exiting the competition in the quarter-finals and then the round of 16 in the last two seasons.
@Snobist
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,498
Ronaldo's job is to bail us out, that's why he gets paid €30m p/a. You could also say the same for any leading player on a team. Also, he didn't make the through ball to himself or win himself the penalty.

He's been "bailing out" Real Madrid for most of his career. They scored over 100 league goals for all of his seasons apart from his last (94) and the last two years they were down to 63 and 70 respectively. CL final winners, consecutive goals in El Crapico. The guy bosses, nothing else to say.
Sometimes the obvious needs to be stated to remind people. Well put. Ancelotti was 100% serious when he said with Ronaldo you start every game 1-0 up.
 
Jun 16, 2020
12,435
#metoo

and he shouldn't be judged the same way as our previous coaches were judged. this is a completely abnormal season in the middle of a pandemic, with nonexistent pre-season, international breaks every month, the busiest calendar ever in between, and overall practically no time to properly train, create some continuity and make changes.

i just checked our schedule, we'll have 10 matches between 21.11. and 22.12. after the international break.

1.jpg


this is insane.

forza pirlo, it's been an uphill climb from day 1.
We were seriously unlucky on a lot of occasions, so many disallowed goals, the red cards, penalties against and besides that also the arguments that you’ve said. This isn’t the start that we were hoping for, but there are some positives.
 

LiquidPLP

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2012
12,237
I keep my fingers crossed for Pirlo, both because he's Juve's coach now and because he's one of my favorite all-time players. That being said I still remain unconvinced with his setup, especially at the back where holding mids very often are too far away from each other and that 3-man defense line turning into a 4-man defense is sometimes too mechanical, it seems to be off too often for my liking, especially against poor teams.
Getting out of the pressure from our own half is also an issue. Hopefully there will be enough mutual willingness between him and the players to adjust accordingly, because even though the squad might lack experience in some departments, it's quality enough to play much better in terms of results and style.

The bad news is there's no more room for dropping points and the calendar is crazy. The upside is getting all the players back, it should increase the quality on the pitch and give more room for rotation. Everyone will have to do his part this season, the calendar is packed to a point where you can only call it insane.
 

Tak!

Senior Member
Jun 23, 2011
4,177
I keep my fingers crossed for Pirlo, both because he's Juve's coach now and because he's one of my favorite all-time players. That being said I still remain unconvinced with his setup, especially at the back where holding mids very often are too far away from each other and that 3-man defense line turning into a 4-man defense is sometimes too mechanical, it seems to be off too often for my liking, especially against poor teams.
Getting out of the pressure from our own half is also an issue. Hopefully there will be enough mutual willingness between him and the players to adjust accordingly, because even though the squad might lack experience in some departments, it's quality enough to play much better in terms of results and style.

The bad news is there's no more room for dropping points and the calendar is crazy. The upside is getting all the players back, it should increase the quality on the pitch and give more room for rotation. Everyone will have to do his part this season, the calendar is packed to a point where you can only call it insane.
I'd like to add that Demiral looks awkward/exposed, he is going too wide and creates huge gaps in the middle. He is a great CB but his reading of the game isn't that good to be out wide that much. His reading will obviously improve since he's still very young. Shame Barzagli didn't stay and could tutor him. So not saying it's Demital's fault but Tudor needs to step in here.
 

LiquidPLP

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2012
12,237
I'd like to add that Demiral looks awkward/exposed, he is going too wide and creates huge gaps in the middle. He is a great CB but his reading of the game isn't that good to be out wide that much. His reading will obviously improve since he's still very young. Shame Barzagli didn't stay and could tutor him. So not saying it's Demital's fault but Tudor needs to step in here.
Yeah, I do feel like all those complications of introducing a new system are kind of unnecessary, especially in this packed season with no time to work on anything. That goes for the defense but also midfield.
 

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