Andrea Pirlo (147 Viewers)

[Juventinoo]

Agree with you.

Most people on this forum are mostly delusional folks that still think Juve is headed the right direction.

Honestly, if you aren’t able to win ECL with CR7, you have no place in the top 30 clubs in the world.

We need a coach ...this is our main problem ...How AA risked this project and millions of investment with Pirlo , i can't understand

with Allegri we could reach the CL final with this squad ...

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Yup, the longer we go on changing coaches every year, the more miserable we'll become, we need to choose a long-term one and stick with our choice.

However, imo Pirlo isn't the one, if he stays I expect him to do similarly or even worse in his 2nd season.

let's change it for the last time ...just Allegri back ..the minimum we will have a Scudetto and Coppa

 

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[Robee]

Yup, the longer we go on changing coaches every year, the more miserable we'll become, we need to choose a long-term one and stick with our choice.

However, imo Pirlo isn't the one, if he stays I expect him to do similarly or even worse in his 2nd season.

I completely agree but think there will be problems in bringing a world class coach on a long term contract and promising him the needed players. Hopefully I'm wrong.

And it certainly won't be Nedved and Tici's wet dream Pep.

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We need a coach ...this is our main problem ...How AA risked this project and millions of investment with Pirlo , i can't understand

with Allegri we could reach the CL final with this squad ...

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let's change it for the last time ...just Allegri back ..the minimum we will have a Scudetto and Coppa

Allegri is one of the best their is but he's not a miracle worker. This squad has talent but they're just not compatible, not even for him.

 

[s4tch]

...What has Gasp done besides Atalanta? At Inter for example?...

not this argument again pls. gasp was given 5 matches in that shithole. every single coach failed at inda between mourinho's good-bye and marotta's arrival.

gasp might not be the best solution for us, i get those arguments. but i'd never judge gasp based on those 5 matches at that inda.

 

[Strickland]

I completely agree but think there will be problems in bringing a world class coach on a long term contract and promising him the needed players. Hopefully I'm wrong.

And it certainly won't be Nedved and Tici's wet dream Pep.

I'd be ok with a proven good coach like Jardim, Ragnick, Gasperini, who all have a track record of building winning teams with young, unproven guys, IMO that's a much safer bet than Pirlo who might turn out to be coaching elite, but most likely will turn our to be a regular Serie A coach at best.

Agreed that we probably can't afford a WC coach who'll be demanding 3 WC signings per season like Pep.

 

[Robee]

I'd be ok with a proven good coach like Jardim, Ragnick, Gasperini, who all have a track record of building winning teams with young, unproven guys, IMO that's a much safer bet than Pirlo who might turn out to be coaching elite, but most likely will turn our to be a regular Serie A coach at best.

Agreed that we probably can't afford a WC coach who'll be demanding 3 WC signings per season like Pep.

I don't see Gasp at all as a good option. The fact he couldn't solve the problem with his captain, who obviously wanted to stay, makes me doubt his management skills even more than before.

I'd give the rest the benefit of the doubt but you know we're going Italian unless it's an absolute stud.

not this argument again pls. gasp was given 5 matches in that shithole. every single coach failed at inda between mourinho's good-bye and marotta's arrival.

gasp might not be the best solution for us, i get those arguments. but i'd never judge gasp based on those 5 matches at that inda.

Exactly which feeds the squad and management arguement...

 

[Gigiventus]

What has Gasp done besides Atalanta?

A lot.

It was his work pre-Atalanta that got him the big job at Inter after all.

He picked up Genoa in Serie B and took them to the europa league playing beautiful football. He was the anti-Mourinho of those times. Same as in Atalanta, he developed a lot of player, and re-discovered a lot of players. Everyone improves under Gasperini.

When he returned to Genoa he picked them up in relegation spots and again returned them to europa league in the table.

It was only then that he went to Atalanta. Taking a lower table team to minutes from eliminating PSG in a champions league quarter final.

Correlation or timing isn't the same as causation.

We can say this about anyone ever in football if we want to be difficult. Taking 3 teams on great (and in two cases historic) journeys playing the same highly praised football is certainly a sign that Gasperini is in great part responsible for this.

Its enough to look at the table of where his teams start and end up, or to look at a match played by his Genoa or Atalanta, or to look at how players play the moment they leave his teams, to know how good his work is.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

He has a terrible record in the CL. I would rather give Ancelotti another chance than Mancini.

And di matteo has a better record than Mancini in CL, does that mean we should hire him?

and yet here we are half this forum jerking off to small time chumps like inzaghi and gasperini

 

[Nzoric]

Gasp is love Gasp is life.

Mancini is the purest cack

 

[Robee]

A lot.

It was his work pre-Atalanta that got him the big job at Inter after all.

He picked up Genoa in Serie B and took them to the europa league playing beautiful football. He was the anti-Mourinho of those times. Same as in Atalanta, he developed a lot of player, and re-discovered a lot of players. Everyone improves under Gasperini.

When he returned to Genoa he picked them up in relegation spots and again returned them to europa league in the table.

It was only then that he went to Atalanta. Taking a lower table team to minutes from eliminating PSG in a champions league quarter final.

We can say this about anyone ever in football if we want to be difficult. Taking 3 teams on great (and in two cases historic) journeys playing the same highly praised football is certainly a sign that Gasperini is in great part responsible for this.

Its enough to look at the table of where his teams start and end up, or to look at a match played by his Genoa or Atalanta, or to look at how players play the moment they leave his teams, to know how good his work is.

Yeah, nice and all doing that over multiple years but that's a completely different job from leading a result first club and instant winning club like Juve. Sarri all over again.

In bold; that's exactly it. It's not enough. Because what did Leicester do before Ranieri and after him?

 

[Badass J Elkann]

fucking del neri took sampdoria to CL football then we hired him look what happened there.

 

[Gigiventus]

Yeah, nice and all doing that over multiple years but that's a completely different job from leading a result first club and instant winning club like Juve. Sarri all over again.

In bold; that's exactly it. It's not enough. Because what did Leicester do before Ranieri and after him?

Right, then tell us, what is enough? when does a coach actually deserve credit and is causation?

What did Leicester do before Ranieri? battle relegation. After Ranieri? certainly not win the prem, also not qualify for CL.

What's the point? should he also not get credit for one of the biggest upsets in football history?

 

[Robee]

Right, then tell us, what is enough? when does a coach actually deserve credit and is causation?

What did Leicester do before Ranieri? battle relegation. After Ranieri? certainly not win the prem, also not qualify for CL.

What's the point? should he also not get credit for one of the biggest upsets in football history?

Controlling every parametre except for the causative one. Which doesn't happen in football. At best you have statistical evidence or at the least try to use multiple empirical cases. Not one simple example which is why I used the deliberately bad Ranieri example.

Leicester is fighting for a CL spot but that's the thing. It's not thanks to Ranieri and their title wasn't (entirely) either. In football you need many things aligned for succes. This goes for coaches but players, transfers and finances as well. Good management, surroundings, strong squads, coaching, a bit of luck etc etc.

How you rank them in importance will always be open for debate as it's subjective. But -not aiming at you- some people tend to think their opinion is the only truth.

 

[Xperd]

Correlation or timing isn't the same as causation. What has Gasp done besides Atalanta? At Inter for example?

But Atalanta and Gasp are a good example of how giving your coach time and the players he needs, can bear some fruits instead of changing every year. With or without Pirlo, whatever choice we make; we must figure out what we actually want instead of trying 5 directions at the same time.

The argument here is how big of an impact and how significant it is to have a qualified coach at the helm to steady the ship. Besides Gasperini's body of work even before Atalanta was pretty solid.

Atalanta before Gasp took over which is in 15-16, finished 13th. Atalanta the following season under Gasp finished 4th. What time and players are you talking about? This is a lowly team with a shoestring budget. Gasp doesn't get to choose what he wants. And as someone already pointed out, Atalanta had to make a choice between Papu and Gasp and they chose the coach because its pretty obvious Gasp is the MVP of Atalanta.

My point is plain and simple. We are in transition and need a rebuild. The safer choice is to have a manager who has been through this process before, not someone who's learning on the job.

 

[DAiDEViL]

And yet here we are half this forum jerking off to small time chumps like inzaghi and gasperini

Maybe stop jerking off to our very own small time chumps in the management.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

it must be difficult for you to look yourself in the mirror each day and think "fuck my life, this is all paratici's fault!"

 

[Bianconero81]

No, but it must be difficult for you to admit that you are a stubborn and dense mule, who refuses to acknowledge your master's mistakes. Your blind and foolish loyalty and obedience and your saccharine fawning to Tootsie is absolutely repulsive.

 

[DAiDEViL]

it must be difficult for you to look yourself in the mirror each day and think "fuck my life, this is all paratici's fault!"

Coming from you

it must be difficult FOR YOU to look yourself in the mirror each day and think "fuck my life, this is all Marotta's fault!"

 

[Juve92]

it must be difficult for you to look yourself in the mirror each day and think "fuck my life, this is all paratici's fault!"

He isn't wrong tho. Paratici is clueless.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

The argument here is how big of an impact and how significant it is to have a qualified coach at the helm to steady the ship. Besides Gasperini's body of work even before Atalanta was pretty solid.

Atalanta before Gasp took over which is in 15-16, finished 13th. Atalanta the following season under Gasp finished 4th. What time and players are you talking about? This is a lowly team with a shoestring budget. Gasp doesn't get to choose what he wants. And as someone already pointed out, Atalanta had to make a choice between Papu and Gasp and they chose the coach because its pretty obvious Gasp is the MVP of Atalanta.

My point is plain and simple. We are in transition and need a rebuild. The safer choice is to have a manager who has been through this process before, not someone who's learning on the job.

Gasperini during inter's rebuild period wasn't exactly a success, even if it is inter. problem is gasperini is someone who will need time and patience when he's under constant pressure to deliver immediate results, it's not him, he has no proven track record of doing so, and we're not the sort of club that will wait a couple of years for him to mould his team together, it just wont happen.

We need a manager who will jolt these guys into action and build some sort of harmony and balance which we absolutely lack, which is why I appreciate what Mancini is doing with the NT after the farse of the ventura era, he's experienced enough at the top level. I really think after the Euros, Mancini will turn doubters heads around.

 

[Robee]

The argument here is how big of an impact and how significant it is to have a qualified coach at the helm to steady the ship. Besides Gasperini's body of work even before Atalanta was pretty solid.

Atalanta before Gasp took over which is in 15-16, finished 13th. Atalanta the following season under Gasp finished 4th. What time and players are you talking about? This is a lowly team with a shoestring budget. Gasp doesn't get to choose what he wants. And as someone already pointed out, Atalanta had to make a choice between Papu and Gasp and they chose the coach because its pretty obvious Gasp is the MVP of Atalanta.

My point is plain and simple. We are in transition and need a rebuild. The safer choice is to have a manager who has been through this process before, not someone who's learning on the job.

I never denied a coach wasn't important. I don't know why that's in your mind.

Then again; Leicester was 14th before Ranieri came and insantly made them champions. This kind of logic is a bittoo simple.

We had a building coach like Sarri and it failed because we didn't have the squad matching his ideas. Buy good players in support of the coach (with Gasp very obviously does have!). If there's any money left get a top coach (or thr other way around) but give any coach some time to implement ideas, instead of changing it every other season. All Gasp adepts probably can agree on that.