Andrea Pirlo (124 Viewers)

[Robee]

We obviously need midfield reinforcements but that’s nonsense that every other coach is going to have the same problems as pirlo. There are a number of coaches out there with experience and mentality that could get this shit show playing at a higher level than pirlo.

Pirlo is just a complete novice, some people are naturally talented at management and visionary’s. It’s been proven by this experiment that Pirlo isn’t one of those people, he’s going to have to learn his craft so I’d rather we appointed someone that has already done their apprenticeship - because that is not something that should be done with the Juventus first team squad. He is absolutely the main problem here because he is failing in all aspects of his role.

Allegri and Sarri. Both were seen as the problem before Pirlo. And therefor by threepeat, he is obviously not the main problem. The fucking quality of the squad and especially midfield is.

And nothing has been proven about Pirlo just yet. I just gave you the obvious steps we have made this season under him.
Nobody in their right mind wanted the Juve job, the pressure to win with a further regressing squad and without preseason. That's why we hired a cheap option like novice Pirlo. Of course he's going to have serious growing pains.

I'm not saying we shouldn't upgrade but unless we spend big, no smart manager wants this poisoned gift. They know they're dependent on the squad quality. It's like Milan a few years back when they kept on switching coaching.

 

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[Strickland]

Allegri and Sarri. Both were seen as the problem before Pirlo. And therefor by threepeat, he is obviously not the main problem. The fucking quality of the squad and especially midfield is.

And nothing has been proven about Pirlo just yet. I just gave you the obvious steps we have made this season under him.
Nobody in their right mind wanted the Juve job, the pressure to win with a further regressing squad and without preseason. That's why we hired a cheap option like novice Pirlo. Of course he's going to have serious growing pains.

I'm not saying we shouldn't upgrade but unless we spend big, no smart manager wants this poisoned gift. They know they're dependent on the squad quality. It's like Milan a few years back when they kept on switching coaching.

IMO in the mgmt eyes both Allegri and Sarri were seen as they lost the dressing room and the ability to motivate the players, which resulted in the sacking not that they badly failed in reaching set targets.

Pirlo is just outright bad coach so far, even if we take just the 2nd half of season we're still trailing Inter and our league opponents are about to get a lot tougher than they have been

 

[GrandeGigi]

and if pirlo won't coach juve, what would he do during next season?

take a 2-year sabbatical?

seriously, which club would take pirlo?

A second or third tier side who would like some publicity.

 

[Strickland]

and if pirlo won't coach juve, what would he do during next season?

take a 2-year sabbatical?

seriously, which club would take pirlo?

Should start at Serie B, someone there would probably take the chance with 100/100 thesis

 

[Robee]

IMO in the mgmt eyes both Allegri and Sarri were seen as they lost the dressing room and the ability to motivate the players, which resulted in the sacking not that they badly failed in reaching set targets.

Pirlo is just outright bad coach so far, even if we take just the 2nd half of season we're still trailing Inter and our league opponents are about to get a lot tougher than they have been

Of course we're trailing, we suck and for the entire season we've been without 1 of the 2 guys who were the sole reason we were champions in the last 2 seasons.

I'd change Pirlo but not for just anybody. And why the fuck would someone like Zidane or whatever come here. Maybe, just maybe a De Zerbi or Inzaghi. But I'm not sure they would do better with this crappy team. Bottom line is we just need a freaking midfield, a LB and all will be fine imo.

Let's not easily pass up on the fact we have the best defence and create the most chances as a team. We're not as badly set-up as some claim just because we won't be winning a tenth scudetto. We've been let down be some major mistakes (like last week).

 

[s4tch]

A second or third tier side who would like some publicity.

they couldn't afford his salary at this point, could they

he should have just started like any other coach. as i said already in some thread, his buddy gattuso was fired by some shitty greek and swiss sides before having an okay season at napoli. this is a long and bumpy ride for most coaches, and the juve bench should be earned, not simply gifted.

 

[Mike-e-y]

Allegri and Sarri. Both were seen as the problem before Pirlo. And therefor by threepeat, he is obviously not the main problem. The fucking quality of the squad and especially midfield is.

And nothing has been proven about Pirlo just yet. I just gave you the obvious steps we have made this season under him.
Nobody in their right mind wanted the Juve job, the pressure to win with a further regressing squad and without preseason. That's why we hired a cheap option like novice Pirlo. Of course he's going to have serious growing pains.

I'm not saying we shouldn't upgrade but unless we spend big, no smart manager wants this poisoned gift. They know they're dependent on the squad quality. It's like Milan a few years back when they kept on switching coaching.

First of all Allegri was never seen as a problem, anyone that thinks he was has a problem themselves. Allegri’s ideas just didn’t match that of the club - hindsight now shows us the clubs direction was incorrect.

Sarri - there is no question he is a talented coach but he was an abysmal cultural fit. He tried to revolutionise a playing style and was the antithesis of everything Juventus, that was never going to work because it’s like lighting a match in a petrol station because you’re cold.

What is clear from Pirlo is that he has built a casual, nonchalant and laid back mentality from his players - fairly similar to his own persona - he got away with this as a player because he had buckets of talent. As a man manager he has 0 skills. He was never a captain, he was never a leader on the pitch. Look at the former players that have been successful managers - all captains, all leaders of men. Although pirlo may understand ‘the game’ and be capable of writing a thesis he is fundamentally lacking in all natural skills as a leader of men

 

[Robee]

First of all Allegri was never seen as a problem, anyone that thinks he was has a problem themselves. Allegri’s ideas just didn’t match that of the club - hindsight now shows us the clubs direction was incorrect.

Sarri - there is no question he is a talented coach but he was an abysmal cultural fit. He tried to revolutionise a playing style and was the antithesis of everything Juventus, that was never going to work because it’s like lighting a match in a petrol station because you’re cold.

What is clear from Pirlo is that he has built a casual, nonchalant and laid back mentality from his players - fairly similar to his own persona - he got away with this as a player because he had buckets of talent. As a man manager he has 0 skills. He was never a captain, he was never a leader on the pitch. Look at the former players that have been successful managers - all captains, all leaders of men. Although pirlo may understand ‘the game’ and be capable of writing a thesis he is fundamentally lacking in all natural skills as a leader of men

Ooh but Allegri was seen as the problem by more than 90% here easily.

The Sarri playing style thing is a very good point. We've not given him the time to fulfill that 180° switch but we kept going in that direction with Pirlo now. It's always going to be a tough turnaround but that is the mentioned 'project'.

The third alinea, couldn't be much further from the truth. The lacklustre spirit has been there for 3 years now and selling players like Can, Mandzukic, etc. made it even worse.
Pirlo not being a leader on the field? Jezus Christ, how wrong. Go look at the Champions legaue final at Barca when Vidal was on a yellow and making tackle after tackle until Pirlo stepped in, yelled at him and he stopped being a dumbass. He has always been a leader. And with time, we will see whether he can or can't be a good coach. I agree he shouldn't learn this at Juve but the bottomline remains he's not the reason for this mentality. Weak ass pussies like Rabiot, Bentancur and Ramsey are. I do see fighting spirit in McKennie for instance.

 

[Nejc]

Allegri and Sarri. Both were seen as the problem before Pirlo. And therefor by threepeat, he is obviously not the main problem. The fucking quality of the squad and especially midfield is.

How many teams in Serie A have better midfielders (looking at players individually) and how many teams play better with their midfield? IMO the second number is at least double the first.

Comparing all the players available makes us look even worse.

 

[Boksic]

Allegri and Sarri. Both were seen as the problem before Pirlo. And therefor by threepeat, he is obviously not the main problem. The fucking quality of the squad and especially midfield is.

And nothing has been proven about Pirlo just yet. I just gave you the obvious steps we have made this season under him.
Nobody in their right mind wanted the Juve job, the pressure to win with a further regressing squad and without preseason. That's why we hired a cheap option like novice Pirlo. Of course he's going to have serious growing pains.

I'm not saying we shouldn't upgrade but unless we spend big, no smart manager wants this poisoned gift. They know they're dependent on the squad quality. It's like Milan a few years back when they kept on switching coaching.

Absolute nonsense.

So if we hired a guy off the street we should keep him because we parted ways with Allegri and Sarri?

I won't go into Allegri being in no way a problem. But it is ridiculous to excuse the manager because of what went on before him.

You can't seriously think no managers wouldn't want the Juve job?

If they took us over prior to this season it was basically a free ticket to winning a trophy. Take us over now and they have the chance to look like the hero who saved us.

Even ignoring that we are the biggest club in Italy, seen as one of the biggest in Europe, have a bigger budget than most and pay our coaches well.

I have no doubt whatsoever just about any coach in serie A would happily coach us. Even Sarri did and he hated us. Sadly just about any coach in serie a would be an improvement too.

We went for Pirlo because our management will unbelievably naive and seem to put Real Madrid on a pedestal, they though Pirlo was the new Zidane. He isn't and he is up there with Ferrara as the worst coach I have seen in my time supporting Juve. Plus we tried to be clever and were arrogant in thinking the we can penny pinch on the manager (you can't, we have lost more money than if we went for a qualified one).

We absolutely need to make a change, we went too far down the wrong path with Sarri and it impacted us. We are doing the same from a weaker position with an infanitely worse coach.

 

[Robee]

Absolute nonsense.

So if we hired a guy off the street we should keep him because we parted ways with Allegri and Sarri?

I won't go into Allegri being in no way a problem. But it is ridiculous to excuse the manager because of what went on before him.

You can't seriously think no managers wouldn't want the Juve job?

If they took us over prior to this season it was basically a free ticket to winning a trophy. Take us over now and they have the chance to look like the hero who saved us.

Even ignoring that we are the biggest club in Italy, seen as one of the biggest in Europe, have a bigger budget than most and pay our coaches well.

I have no doubt whatsoever just about any coach in serie A would happily coach us. Even Sarri did and he hated us. Sadly just about any coach in serie a would be an improvement too.

We went for Pirlo because our management will unbelievably naive and seem to put Real Madrid on a pedestal, they though Pirlo was the new Zidane. He isn't and he is up there with Ferrara as the worst coach I have seen in my time supporting Juve. Plus we tried to be clever and were arrogant in thinking the we can penny pinch on the manager (you can't, we have lost more money than if we went for a qualified one).

We absolutely need to make a change, we went too far down the wrong path with Sarri and it impacted us. We are doing the same from a weaker position with an infanitely worse coach.

I guess you didn't actually read what I was saying.

And it was far from a free ticket to winning the scudetto, llwe dropped off year by year and last year we won it by 1 point. Any half ass blind guy saw that. Plus the fact we choose a cheap option like Pirlo whilst paying off 2 more coaches and having real trouble lowering our wage bill speaks volumes. Stop neglecting facts by throwing around some clichés.

You can not change the entire style of play with a team, cut down the wage bill, continue to play without any proven classy midfielder and expect to win title after title. You just can't. And we shouldn't change for the sake of it. If we can get a really really good coach, do it. If we can't, it's more money down the drain and exactly what Milan or even Inter did.

 

[Boksic]

I guess you didn't actually read what I was saying.

And it was far from a free ticket to winning the scudetto, llwe dropped off year by year and last year we won it by 1 point. Any half ass blind guy saw that. Plus the fact we choose a cheap option like Pirlo whilst paying off 2 more coaches and having real trouble lowering our wage bill speaks volumes. Stop neglecting facts by throwing around some clichés.

You say "Both were seen as the problem before Pirlo. And therefor by threepeat, he is obviously not the main problem." That is basically excusing the coach and suggests that no matter who we hired they would not be the main problem (hence my point that by applying the argument if we took a guy from the street he wouldn't be the main problem because we sacked our past 2 coaches).

While I agree there are numerous issues, just because they exist it doesn't give the coach a free pass. Look at our team, we are abysmally set up, no organisation, no drive, no shape, we are wide open. That is all on the coach regardless of the personnel he has available to him.

Of course we dropped off under Sarri, that didn't mean we had to this year. I didn't say anything about a free pass to the Scudetto (I guess you didn't actually read what I was saying), I said prior to this season it was basically a free pass to a trophy. It was (Pirlo even won the super coppa and are in the coppa final). Not the level we need to be at but even in a poor season you have a chance at winning something. Plenty of coaches who have never won anything would bite your hand off for that.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Absolute nonsense.

So if we hired a guy off the street we should keep him because we parted ways with Allegri and Sarri?

Do you think AA and Paratici are just shooting a remake of "Trading Places"? @Hust

 

[Robee]

You say "Both were seen as the problem before Pirlo. And therefor by threepeat, he is obviously not the main problem." That is basically excusing the coach and suggests that no matter who we hired they would not be the main problem (hence my point that by applying the argument if we took a guy from the street he wouldn't be the main problem because we sacked our past 2 coaches).

While I agree there are numerous issues, just because they exist it doesn't give the coach a free pass. Look at our team, we are abysmally set up, no organisation, no drive, no shape, we are wide open. That is all on the coach regardless of the personnel he has available to him.

Of course we dropped off under Sarri, that didn't mean we had to this year. I didn't say anything about a free pass to the Scudetto (I guess you didn't actually read what I was saying), I said prior to this season it was basically a free pass to a trophy. It was (Pirlo even won the super coppa and are in the coppa final). Not the level we need to be at but even in a poor season you have a chance at winning something. Plenty of coaches who have never won anything would bite your hand off for that.

It's not excusing the coach. I literally said Pirlo made mistakes and we will face serious problems with a novice coach. So if you think I'm giving him a free pass, you're wrong.

I said "main problem" as you rightfully quoted. It's obviously and very simply a lack of quality in key areas despite paying top dollar and that should be fixed before we do anything else.

If you actually meant the trophies we didn't win every year like Supercoppa or Coppa, it's not only wrong, it's also useless. No manager comes to Juve to win only that after 9 scudetti.

 

[JuvePerSempre10]

The problem is that I don't see the upside for next season that people who want him to stay are seeing. What it is based on? He has no track record as a coach. Are we playing much better now than we did at the start of the season? I don't think we have the luxury to just sit around and wait for it to magically click. It's blasphemous to assume that he is not the main problem and that we need to address the deficiencies of the squad before we change coaches. We do need to address our issues with the squad, but we won Scudetti the last 2 seasons with squads worse than we have today. So how can we claim that hiring a competent coach wouldn't instantly make us a much stronger side?

I really wanted this to work but I just can't be as optimistic as people who are saying next season is going to be much better.

 

[Boksic]

It's not excusing the coach. I literally said Pirlo made mistakes and we will face serious problems with a novice coach. So if you think I'm giving him a free pass, you're wrong.

I said "main problem" as you rightfully quoted. It's obviously and very simply a lack of quality in key areas despite paying top dollar and that should be fixed before we do anything else.

If you actually meant the trophies we didn't win every year like Supercoppa or Coppa, it's not only wrong, it's also useless. No manager comes to Juve to win only that after 9 scudetti.

Fair enough, it certainly sounded like you were excusing him. He is part of many problems at the club, I fully believe that despite our issues our squad is good enough to be closer to Inter. There are so many issues that are the responsibility of the coach and he should not be excused because of other issues.

We have won at least one trophy every season for the past 10 seasons, I did not say anything wrong. It is true. Of course a manager coming to Juve expects to win more. You said that nobody in their right mind would want the Juve job or no smart manager would want it. I completely disagree, I'm confident just about every Serie A manager would want the role (maybe not Conte given the personal issues or Gasp if he prefers to avoid another go at a big club, who knows). Many managers would bite your hand off to have a chance to compete for the Scudetto and win anything (including a coppa). It is not enough for Juve fans, I agree but many managers would want that. Then we have the prestige of being Juve manager (most high profile in Italy, the opportunity to work with better players, manage in the CL, the budget, the higher salary.

 

[il brutto]

I feel the main argument to keep the current coach is that changing is always a risk. The problem for Pirlo here is that keeping him is also a risk. Basically no matter what we do on the manager front we're again rolling the dice and just hoping for the best. I agree with Robee that there are no quarantees that a new coach will work out but equally there are no quarantees that Pirlo will work out next season either.

 

[Robee]

Fair enough, it certainly sounded like you were excusing him. He is part if many problems at the club, I fully believe that despite our issues our squad is good enough to be closer to Inter. There are so many issues that are the responsibility of the coach and he should not be excused because of other issues.

We have won at least one trophy every season for the past 10 seasons, I did not say anything wrong. It is true. Of course a manager coming to Juve expects to win more. You said that nobody in their right mind would want the Juve job or no smart manager would want it. I completely disagree, I'm confident just about every Serie A manager would want the role (maybe not Conte given the personal issues or Gasp if he prefers to avoid another go at a big club, who knows). Many managers would bite your hand off to have a chance to compete for the Scudetto and win anything (including a coppa). It is not enough for Juve fans, I agree but many managers would want that. Then we have the prestige of being Juve manager (most high profile in Italy, the opportunity to work with better players, manage in the CL, the budget, the higher salary.

Yes, with a yearly scudetto. I should check but I don't think we won another trophy every year.

I agree we could be closer to inter. The gap is too big but that's because our start was abysmal and comically bad. After the break we are much closer and this obvious improvement, from being open all the time to having the best defence for example, is key to my reasoning. We can't blame Pirlo for passes like Bentancur against Porto or Arthur against Benevento. These guys make millions... Blame them first ffs.

I don't know if the guys that would bite a hand off for a go with this Juve are worth it. They're dumb fucks imho because they won't win the scudetto either and therefor do no better than Pirlo, except for the Coppa maybe but then again we can still win that.
For next season I see De Zerbi as the only real upgrade in the style of football we are targeting but that's also a bit of a gamble. I'd rather see us put every penny we have towards our squad because there will still be holes in it anyway.

 

[s4tch]

I feel the main argument to keep the current coach is that changing is always a risk. The problem for Pirlo here is that keeping him is also a risk. Basically no matter what we do on the manager front we're again rolling the dice and just hoping for the best. I agree with Robee that there are no quarantees that a new coach will work out but equally there are no quarantees that Pirlo will work out next season either.

what are the chances though.

with a proven coach like allegri you have a guarantee that results will come if the squad is good enough. (i don't think that our squad matches our ambitions, that's a whole other discussion though.)

with pirlo you're in the dark until he manages to coach 2-3 seasons at a consistent level. i still like pirlo as a guy and as an ex player, but he didn't show anything promising besides that 6-game streak before arthur's injury. i don't feel he's a solution to anything, i feel he's an other problem besides some players.

huge difference.

 

[il brutto]

what are the chances though.

with a proven coach like allegri you have a guarantee that results will come if the squad is good enough. (i don't think that our squad matches our ambitions, that's a whole other discussion though.)

with pirlo you're in the dark until he manages to coach 2-3 seasons at a consistent level. i still like pirlo as a guy and as an ex player, but he didn't show anything promising besides that 6-game streak before arthur's injury. i don't feel he's a solution to anything, i feel he's an other problem besides some players.

huge difference.

That's what the management needs to determine. Is it a bigger risk to go into a new season with Pirlo or with some other coach? That is if we're assuming that Fab, Agnelli and Nedved are pragmatic when they're making these decision. However as we all know they're not.