Andrea "Il Bruco Brutto" Agnelli (96 Viewers)

[Strickland]

it's hard to see the logic in major sporting punishments, don't think this'll result in relegation. apparently there are two things:

1. the wages that were paid under the table for 3 months - I don't think this gives a big enough competitive advantage to seriously consider sanctioning the club with a major sporting penalty. a fine, even a jail sentence for the perpetrators would be fine, but I don't see why any points should be docked in Serie A, let alone enough to lead to relegation;
2. the inflated values in player transfers - I can see the logic in deducting some points if it can be proven (and I believe some instances can be proven, f.e. the ones involving Serie C players. at the lower levels the transfer market is larger (more players) than at the absolute elite level, therefore it's easier to show why specific transfers are an anomaly). however there're at least 8-10 Italian clubs + multiple foreign ones that can't be taken out of the equation, this type of fraud by definition involves two complicit parties for every transfer. the foreign ones are untouchable for FIGC, but they're still obliged to go after the local ones and I don't think it's a big enough crime to relegate half of Serie A and the best clubs in Serie B.

 

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[Dominic]

I remember us fans telling ourselves in 2006 that we would not get relegated.

 

[Seven]

it's hard to see the logic in major sporting punishments, don't think this'll result in relegation. apparently there are two things:

1. the wages that were paid under the table for 3 months - I don't think this gives a big enough competitive advantage to seriously consider sanctioning the club with a major sporting penalty. a fine, even a jail sentence for the perpetrators would be fine, but I don't see why any points should be docked in Serie A, let alone enough to lead to relegation;
2. the inflated values in player transfers - I can see the logic in deducting some points if it can be proven (and I believe some instances can be proven, f.e. the ones involving Serie C players. at the lower levels the transfer market is larger (more players) than at the absolute elite level, therefore it's easier to show why specific transfers are an anomaly). however there're at least 8-10 Italian clubs + multiple foreign ones that can't be taken out of the equation, this type of fraud by definition involves two complicit parties for every transfer. the foreign ones are untouchable for FIGC, but they're still obliged to go after the local ones and I don't think it's a big enough crime to relegate half of Serie A and the best clubs in Serie B.

It's ridiculously difficult to tell what's inflated. A 20 year old player who scores 10 Serie A goals might suddenly be worth 50 million. You'd have to show intent too. Of course if we value just about any player we have at big numbers and they can prove it's systemic, that's something else.

 

[Gep]

 

[Seven]

I remember us fans telling ourselves in 2006 that we would not get relegated.

In the end it proved to be an absolutely outrageous and ridiculous decision. Truly only in Italy.

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Lol is that true? La Liga? You know, the competition where financial fraud is everywhere?

 

[s4tch]

... 2. the inflated values in player transfers - I can see the logic in deducting some points if it can be proven...

bad intent can't be proven, and any decent lawyer would win any appeal. there's not a single metric to measure the price of players. the judge didn't even consider the case when he learned that the prosecutor used transfermarkt as his benchmark lol

the issue lies with the deferred wages and the related bookkeeping practice. the scale of those might matter too: we could read an estimate of 210m yesterday, but before the consolidated reports are published we can't be sure

 

[Strickland]

It's ridiculously difficult to tell what's inflated. A 20 year old player who scores 10 Serie A goals might suddenly be worth 50 million. You'd have to show intent too. Of course if we value just about any player we have at big numbers and they can prove it's systemic, that's something else.

Agreed, but I think some instances are doable. F.e. imo Pellegrini - Spinazzola swap had inflated values, but it was "only" by 1.5-3 times so it's not that scandalous, + it's hard to compare as they're elite footballers and there're not that many of them, so it's almost impossible to prove.

But Napoli packaging 3 absolute nobodies from their youth team with very little objective value (like senior apps, youth national team apps etc) for tens of millions in the Osimhen deal is doable, the value there is inflated so heavily and there're so many youth players out there to compare them with that I think there's enough objective data to prove that their value was inflated.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

A collective of Juventus ultras released a statement on social media today, celebrating the resignation of Agnelli, who had previously come head to head with the ultras.

“This is our day. This is the day for those like us who have never stopped fighting even for a second. This is the day of revenge and justice. This is the day we have been waiting for too long. This is the day of our victory. Only ultras always win.”

 

[Rockets]

 

[Strickland]

bad intent can't be proven, and any decent lawyer would win any appeal. there's not a single metric to measure the price of players. the judge didn't even consider the case when he learned that the prosecutor used transfermarkt as his benchmark lol

the issue lies with the deferred wages and the related bookkeeping practice. the scale of those might matter too: we could read an estimate of 210m yesterday, but before the consolidated reports are published we can't be sure

you measure the market with what objective data you have + bring in experts, if the market is big enough and the discrepancy is huge + you get decent experts confirming that analysis, you do have something. transfermarkt as the only benchmark indeed is funny

 

[U Picciriddu]

I remember us fans telling ourselves in 2006 that we would not get relegated.

I remember opening teletext on a daily base only to see our players leaving

 

[Amer]

I remember us fans telling ourselves in 2006 that we would not get relegated.

I remember Pessotto almost killing himself.

 

[Bjerknes]

Just have to repeat myself here, but only in italy do they try to ruin their most successfull football club whenever they can.

No shit should we get punished if we did something wrong, fine with that, but italy is just so unpredictable. They do whatever they want.

No matter what experts say, we should get this or that fine - to me the outcome of all of this is unpredictable - because italy.

You have my stamp of approval on this one. Italy is a nightmare, shame we couldn't get the Super League done before this latest round of nonsense.

 

[GiocataGrande]

They destroyed their entire league in 2006. Serie A has not recovered since. And the kicker? Not a shred of evidence of actual wrongdoing.

I'm not saying they did everything the right way this time around. I just don't know. No one does really. But I do know that we were relegated in 2006 for apparently no reason whatsoever and it put Italian football back decades.

Honest to God, I love Italy, I love being in Italy, but they're so fucking retarded half the time.

First: For sure a lot of clubs in Serie A or in the world for that matter are involved in these grey zones and practice financial manipulation.

Remember: Inters offices were raided as recently as February 2022, but that didnt seem to make up enough evidence for something to stick on them.

Question is: why, somehow our club keeps ending up in these situations where serious cases with serious consequences are leaked to the media while a lot of other clubs dont.

Altough this is a part of a cultural tendency in southern Europe and especially Serie A/Italy, we somehow keep ending up in these situations.

I dont know if the narrative of Juve being "targeted" and us being the victim all the time is valid at this point.

I see this more as a clear evidence of a totally clueless leadership trying to bend and juke numbers to get away from their inabilites as financially mature leaders, more than anything else.

The ronaldo purchase was a perfect example of this : we invested into one player and later tried to paper the cracks of the rest of the squad with washed, unfunctional players and by cutting corners. I would not be surprised if some of this timeline ends up being mentioned in the cases.

If they cant do their job in a proper manner without making headlines every freaking year, they should resign and find someone who can.

 

[Dominic]

I remember Pessotto almost killing himself.

Yeah man, strange times

 

[U Picciriddu]

I remember Pessotto almost killing himself.

Yeah this sucked and then the two primavera players dying

 

[Bjerknes]

I remember us fans telling ourselves in 2006 that we would not get relegated.

I 'member.

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Maybe if we just create a few holding companies this would all disappear.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Is this real? Fuck them

Let this be a lesson to those that root for Spain or the Spanish at all in any capacity. They are the enemy and always will be.

 

[Seven]

Let this be a lesson to those that root for Spain or the Spanish at all in any capacity. They are the enemy and always will be.

The Spanish have an inferiority complex towards Italians.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

The Spanish have an inferiority complex towards Italians.

I guess being neighbors it's only natural that they would be a foil to France.