Alessio Secco (25 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
yeah, i guess they will buy a great CB, but only when Legro retires...
umpkin: And who needs great fullbacks anyway...:sick:
Certainly, everybody gets better with time and exp.
But we can we afford that in our darkest moment of our history and after having so many problems and limited financial resources???
This is NOT the time for experiments, this is NOT the time to waste million upon millions, only to let Secco to the learn the ropes. We are a competitive team, messing with the best managers of the entire freakin globe.
If Secco needs more exo, he should be given a smaller club to ruin.
At this level, one minor mistake is a major issue. It is extremely punishing for both the manager and the club! Secco was meant to be a quick fix, not a permanent solution...
His presence here and his incompetence undermines our future.
We could have done si much much better with the available resources and as the time passes, it becomes even more evident, painfully obvious, i may say!
Andrade was exp and used to be reliable. There was a reason Depo was willing to off load him so easily. Other clubs probably knew it was a risk, but because of Secco's incompetence, we were not able to try for a better choice and were forced to risk, by buying him! The members who have closely followed him, expected an injury from day one.
Almiron was promising, chances are that these kind of players, dont cope at the highest levels, but some times they do. We already had Zanetti and Nocerino, instead of keeping Blasi or another youngster like Marchisio and buy an expesnive but reliable player (CR insisted on Sissoko from the start), we opted to risk twice and take a double risk, Almiron and Tiago, we knew that Tiago had potential, BUT we also knew that he wouldnt be able to offer right away, because he wasted at least on season on the bench and he was off form. Those risks were extensively discussed and rejected from both the Juve fans and probably the other great clubs who could have bought them, but rejected them.
But Secco overpaid to get this junk and then he overpaid to fix his mess.
Iaquinta was brought in a sub of two world class forwards and we have chosen to bring in free players as starters to our backline, when the defense was our number one problem. That was the second failure of Secco(he let go Balza, Mutu, Kovac for nothing and overpaid for the half of Criscito at his 1st attempt) but he had plenty of excuses to go unnoticed. (serie b, limited income, no CL)
This year, he had no more excuse left. This team clearly needed more quality players, subs can be easily be found for free, or by bringing back Moggi's youngsters. But again Secco proved that he learned nothing over the previous two years. By now, if we were keeping the right players as subs and investing only one great material and quality but expensive players, like Sissoko and Amauri, we could have bought at least 2 more starters of their value.
Instead we have brought another two cheap free defenders, wasted our transfer budget, once again on the already stacked forward line and ignored the issues that plagued as in our wings and back-line.
You may sit back and hope for the best ignoring these facts, nuts thats exactly how it happened! I never blamed Secco for the decisions he made, after the transfer window was closed. I did it before he even did them, because they were thaaaat obvious!
Our chance are crippled before the season starts, only because of these options.
And look what he is preparing for the next year? Another expensive forward!!
And a cheap Italian winger to replace Nedved, no quality starters at the backline and no real alternatives/upgrades to our current options.
As far as i am concerned Salih and Grygera are not extremely valuable, we could have bought better starters instead of Iaq and spend the money we spend on him, at Amauri on the first place.
Another important aspects of Seccos failure is his inability to promote and sell our material.
Moggi was able to make a transfer, only by offloading our junk.
But we cant even sell our players for the price we bought them and furthermore are forced to keep and pay a large some on salaries of dead wood, mostly because of his inability to sell them at decent prices or use them as bargain coins (Zebina, Andrade, Almiron etc) Those players and some who have been released for free, would have been used from Moggi or another exp manager of this level, to bring in free or cheap subs and use the remaining resources to lure in quality players. The junk we bought and we keep buying is good for nothing. Secco inherited so many advantages a manager of his level would never dream of, like worldwide prestige and recognition, extended support, tradition/history, exp/know how of deals at the higher levels, access to top quality advisers, access to high ranked managers and officials the lower clubs are not allowed to, etc etc
He had the upper-hand from the start and a decent fortune to spend and what did he did with that??? He shrunk our club!! Such a failure he is.
What is his heritage?? What did he offered to the club by his very own personal negotiation skills or intuition?? What would have done without the above mentioned inherited advantages?? Nothing!!!
As the time goes by, those advantages fade, our champions retire, soon the funds he is now wasting will be even more limited, our champion and the stuff he inherited will be no more to make the difference and save he is @ss.
What are we going to do then???
That why i dont tolerate his presence, he has wasted our chances of glory in the near future, we shouldnt not allow him to make an even more permanent damage!
Yeah right, they said the same thing about Sissoko, if we were upping the price just a bit, we could have bought him, that extra boost would be enough for them to sign him, or just another sub.
Anyway, between the quality and the skills of Poulsen and Alonso there are hundreds of others players acquirable, we only wanted to approach them differently and with the right sum. Our transfer strategy is too flawed for that, let alone our priorities. But our buying power is seriously affected by the limited (if any) negotiation skills of Secco...
umpkin: And who needs great fullbacks anyway...:sick: Certainly, everybody gets better with time and exp.
But we can we afford that in our darkest moment of our history and after having so many problems and limited financial resources???
This is NOT the time for experiments, this is NOT the time to waste million upon millions, only to let Secco to the learn the ropes. We are a competitive team, messing with the best managers of the entire freakin globe.
If Secco needs more exo, he should be given a smaller club to ruin.
At this level, one minor mistake is a major issue. It is extremely punishing for both the manager and the club! Secco was meant to be a quick fix, not a permanent solution...
His presence here and his incompetence undermines our future.
We could have done si much much better with the available resources and as the time passes, it becomes even more evident, painfully obvious, i may say!
Andrade was exp and used to be reliable. There was a reason Depo was willing to off load him so easily. Other clubs probably knew it was a risk, but because of Secco's incompetence, we were not able to try for a better choice and were forced to risk, by buying him! The members who have closely followed him, expected an injury from day one.
Almiron was promising, chances are that these kind of players, dont cope at the highest levels, but some times they do. We already had Zanetti and Nocerino, instead of keeping Blasi or another youngster like Marchisio and buy an expesnive but reliable player (CR insisted on Sissoko from the start), we opted to risk twice and take a double risk, Almiron and Tiago, we knew that Tiago had potential, BUT we also knew that he wouldnt be able to offer right away, because he wasted at least on season on the bench and he was off form. Those risks were extensively discussed and rejected from both the Juve fans and probably the other great clubs who could have bought them, but rejected them.
But Secco overpaid to get this junk and then he overpaid to fix his mess.
Iaquinta was brought in a sub of two world class forwards and we have chosen to bring in free players as starters to our backline, when the defense was our number one problem. That was the second failure of Secco(he let go Balza, Mutu, Kovac for nothing and overpaid for the half of Criscito at his 1st attempt) but he had plenty of excuses to go unnoticed. (serie b, limited income, no CL)
This year, he had no more excuse left. This team clearly needed more quality players, subs can be easily be found for free, or by bringing back Moggi's youngsters. But again Secco proved that he learned nothing over the previous two years. By now, if we were keeping the right players as subs and investing only one great material and quality but expensive players, like Sissoko and Amauri, we could have bought at least 2 more starters of their value.
Instead we have brought another two cheap free defenders, wasted our transfer budget, once again on the already stacked forward line and ignored the issues that plagued as in our wings and back-line.
You may sit back and hope for the best ignoring these facts, nuts thats exactly how it happened! I never blamed Secco for the decisions he made, after the transfer window was closed. I did it before he even did them, because they were thaaaat obvious!
Our chance are crippled before the season starts, only because of these options.
And look what he is preparing for the next year? Another expensive forward!!
And a cheap Italian winger to replace Nedved, no quality starters at the backline and no real alternatives/upgrades to our current options.
As far as i am concerned Salih and Grygera are not extremely valuable, we could have bought better starters instead of Iaq and spend the money we spend on him, at Amauri on the first place.
Another important aspects of Seccos failure is his inability to promote and sell our material.
Moggi was able to make a transfer, only by offloading our junk.
But we cant even sell our players for the price we bought them and furthermore are forced to keep and pay a large some on salaries of dead wood, mostly because of his inability to sell them at decent prices or use them as bargain coins (Zebina, Andrade, Almiron etc) Those players and some who have been released for free, would have been used from Moggi or another exp manager of this level, to bring in free or cheap subs and use the remaining resources to lure in quality players. The junk we bought and we keep buying is good for nothing. Secco inherited so many advantages a manager of his level would never dream of, like worldwide prestige and recognition, extended support, tradition/history, exp/know how of deals at the higher levels, access to top quality advisers, access to high ranked managers and officials the lower clubs are not allowed to, etc etc
He had the upper-hand from the start and a decent fortune to spend and what did he did with that??? He shrunk our club!! Such a failure he is.
What is his heritage?? What did he offered to the club by his very own personal negotiation skills or intuition?? What would have done without the above mentioned inherited advantages?? Nothing!!!
As the time goes by, those advantages fade, our champions retire, soon the funds he is now wasting will be even more limited, our champion and the stuff he inherited will be no more to make the difference and save he is @ss.
What are we going to do then???
That why i dont tolerate his presence, he has wasted our chances of glory in the near future, we shouldnt not allow him to make an even more permanent damage!
Yeah right, they said the same thing about Sissoko, if we were upping the price just a bit, we could have bought him, that extra boost would be enough for them to sign him, or just another sub.
Anyway, between the quality and the skills of Poulsen and Alonso there are hundreds of others players acquirable, we only wanted to approach them differently and with the right sum. Our transfer strategy is too flawed for that, let alone our priorities. But our buying power is seriously affected by the limited (if any) negotiation skills of Secco...
The Amauri transfer dragged on because Amauri's agent wanted him to sign for Milan (they were probably offering bigger wages). Amauri has since sacked that agent for the way he behaved during the summer.
And you can choose to believe that about the Poulsen deal. I think, when it became apparent we weren't signing a top CB, Ranieri decided that Poulsen was the better option.
And you can choose to believe that about the Poulsen deal. I think, when it became apparent we weren't signing a top CB, Ranieri decided that Poulsen was the better option.
They wanted €20 million for Sissoko and they still weren't sure if they want to sell him or not.
When Liverpool realized that they really don't need Sissoko they sold him to us for €11 million.
You're making it sound as if we were the ones who lost in this deal.
We had the experience with Liverpool and we knew that we can get Alsonso cheaply the moment he won't be needed in Pool. Fuck it, he's needed and they won't sell him, just like they didn't want to sell him in the summer until they get Barry.
We offered ~€16 million while Pool wanted €19-20 million BUT after they find a sub. To buy him before they find a sub we would have to pay much more than €20 million. Probably around €25 million.
When Liverpool realized that they really don't need Sissoko they sold him to us for €11 million.
You're making it sound as if we were the ones who lost in this deal.
We had the experience with Liverpool and we knew that we can get Alsonso cheaply the moment he won't be needed in Pool. Fuck it, he's needed and they won't sell him, just like they didn't want to sell him in the summer until they get Barry.
We offered ~€16 million while Pool wanted €19-20 million BUT after they find a sub. To buy him before they find a sub we would have to pay much more than €20 million. Probably around €25 million.
Most of the flops turn out actually to be question marks. Andrade is injured, while Criscito is still learning, so to say they are total failures is not correct. I believe they will play a major role soon, which is why we don't buy any defenders despite the defence being a major weakness. 17 million were spent on them and it makes no economical sense to spend more since these players might improve or in Andrade's case, do a Marchionni and suddenly, there there is no longer a crisis in the defence. The only true failure so far is Almiron.
The image of Secco has been firmly established after the first transfer season. Any transfers are made to sound bad. Mellberg and Knezevic are made to sound like they are brought in as starters. Any links with mediocre players like D'Agostino are trumpeted as another of Secco's madness, most of which turns out to be false. He may struggle to sell our junk, but he is not that crap.
What of this talk of no experiments? It is clearly stated that the club has plans for the future that takes years. If there are no experiments, there will be no Lippis or Arsene Wengers. Yes fans want instant results so they desire the best--Evra, Zapata etc immediately but businesses don't work like that. They need to plan what they need and go in at the right time. If it takes two years, so be it, even if the fans berate them in the meantime. It looks like a symptom unique to Juventus supporters, probably because of our list of sustained success which makes us unable to stand the club being in any position other than first. Arsenal and Liverpool are still rebuilding even after 5 years, and the fans still stand behind them.
The image of Secco has been firmly established after the first transfer season. Any transfers are made to sound bad. Mellberg and Knezevic are made to sound like they are brought in as starters. Any links with mediocre players like D'Agostino are trumpeted as another of Secco's madness, most of which turns out to be false. He may struggle to sell our junk, but he is not that crap.
What of this talk of no experiments? It is clearly stated that the club has plans for the future that takes years. If there are no experiments, there will be no Lippis or Arsene Wengers. Yes fans want instant results so they desire the best--Evra, Zapata etc immediately but businesses don't work like that. They need to plan what they need and go in at the right time. If it takes two years, so be it, even if the fans berate them in the meantime. It looks like a symptom unique to Juventus supporters, probably because of our list of sustained success which makes us unable to stand the club being in any position other than first. Arsenal and Liverpool are still rebuilding even after 5 years, and the fans still stand behind them.
Tell me about it, everytime I see us linked to another player I just laugh....all the links are bullshit, the only true ones are the ones declared by the club and there is nothing declared at this moment in time as there is nothing obvious on how we will shape up for next year. Everything in the media right now is protein for Cronios.
Konrad Adenauer, the west German federal minister of foreign affairs in 1951 had better negotiating skills and was a better diplomat than Andrey Vyshinsky, the Soviet minister of foreign affairs at the same time.
But the Germans lost the war, they were humiliated, destroyed, and they couldn't possibly be a force so early after the WWII defeat, while the Soviets, even with weaker diplomats, could play a much bigger role in international politics.
Adenauer didn't make a world power out of Germany in 1951. Slowly but surely his words and the words of his successors were taken much more seriously in the following decades.
Since he couldn't make his country the force it was back in 1940, does it mean that he was doing a lousy job or the new balance of power in the world, the new world order and the general situation were the reasons why Ribbentrop (the German foreign minister from 1938-1945) and Vyshinsky were more successful than Adenauer?
P.S: 1 year, 8 months and 3 days ago, Juventus played in serie B against Spezia.
But the Germans lost the war, they were humiliated, destroyed, and they couldn't possibly be a force so early after the WWII defeat, while the Soviets, even with weaker diplomats, could play a much bigger role in international politics.
Adenauer didn't make a world power out of Germany in 1951. Slowly but surely his words and the words of his successors were taken much more seriously in the following decades.
Since he couldn't make his country the force it was back in 1940, does it mean that he was doing a lousy job or the new balance of power in the world, the new world order and the general situation were the reasons why Ribbentrop (the German foreign minister from 1938-1945) and Vyshinsky were more successful than Adenauer?
P.S: 1 year, 8 months and 3 days ago, Juventus played in serie B against Spezia.
I dont like Secco whatsoever, but VERY WELL SAID.
Its extremely vital for the grief he has gotten over the years, the media has played their usual sensationalist game, and alot of fans have vented their frustrated on Secco simply based on empty baseless rumours that have as much credibility as us saying in this Forum Juve is after this or that player. If people are pre-determined to go flame someone, then they will find every opportunity they can, until they convince themselves utterly and completely.
I understand the need for that mentality, if you are used to Juve being as great as in the past, just some years ago, and want to be that great again over night, but too few stop to think of how unrealistic that is. Doesnt mean our board havent botched up or arent unambitious in parts, but for some, they cant do no right, because the expectation is Juve to become top dogs again just like THAT.
Its extremely vital for the grief he has gotten over the years, the media has played their usual sensationalist game, and alot of fans have vented their frustrated on Secco simply based on empty baseless rumours that have as much credibility as us saying in this Forum Juve is after this or that player. If people are pre-determined to go flame someone, then they will find every opportunity they can, until they convince themselves utterly and completely.
I understand the need for that mentality, if you are used to Juve being as great as in the past, just some years ago, and want to be that great again over night, but too few stop to think of how unrealistic that is. Doesnt mean our board havent botched up or arent unambitious in parts, but for some, they cant do no right, because the expectation is Juve to become top dogs again just like THAT.