Able Xavier Converts to Islam (21 Viewers)

[Fred]

That doesn't make sense. Even now, Muslims all over the world are living through different cultures. This book is supposed to be understandable for every person, no matter what his language/culture/color/nationality is. It's in fact supposed to be the miracle of Qoran.




Na you didn't disappoint me. I expected the exact same answer from you. That's a simple assumption and a simpler question. You don't necessarily need to be a Christian to answer that. If what you read on Qoran was convincing enough (for you), you would have told me now that no matter where you had been born, you would have still found it convincing had you had the chance to read Qoran. By dodging the answer, you just show how much more you've been influenced by your parents beliefs (as well as the culture you've been growing up through) rather than what you read on Qoran.

You see its a lose lose situation for me here as soon as you asked that question.

If i had said, that i would have been convinced by the Koran whatever my background was, you would have said that i was biased and you wouldn't believe me.

If i said i didn't know because that question is impossible for me to answer. You'd say i am dodging the question.

If i said that i would have just considered it any other book, you would have said that i am only a muslim because of my parents.


There was never any way i could have adequately answered that question, was there?

 

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[king Ale]

This is not a fair question. You see non-muslims becoming muslims and muslims becoming non-muslims, but in both cases you see very few. It almost doesn't happen. But going by your logic that means that all other books/ideas aren't convincing either so that leaves us with nothing. Might as well stick with the Quran then.

Why someone converts to Islam? Because he finds Islam more reliable, more complete and more convincing. It's a personal matter. It won't leave you with nothing. It's just a normal path anyone might step on in order to have the "better" things.

 

[king Ale]

You see its a lose lose situation for me here as soon as you asked that question.

If i had said, that i would have been convinced by the Koran whatever my background was, you would have said that i was biased and you wouldn't believe me.

If i said i didn't know because that question is impossible for me to answer. You'd say i am dodging the question.

If i said that i would have just considered it any other book, you would have said that i am only a muslim because of my parents.


There was never any way i could have adequately answered that question, was there?

No way. Tell me this. NOW.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Where was the explanation of Shiaism we were promised Rab?

 

[Fred]

Well i can't tell you this because i would be losing my objectivity indeed. Do i know for sure that if i had been born Christian i would have been convinced by Islam. I do not know that.

 

[king Ale]

Come on, dude, that's just not the way things work. We are all influenced by our environment but there's no shame in admitting that. It doesn't make the Qu'ran any less valuable.

I never said it's shameful to admit that you're under the influence of your environment. I just find the "a European man..." statement of yours very wrong if you believe that Qoran is an ever present source for all the people all over the world.

Well i can't tell you this because i would be losing my objectivity indeed. Do i know for sure that if i had been born Christian i would have been convinced by Islam. I do not know that.

It just means that you aren't convinced by Qoran even now that you consider yourself a Muslim.

Yes, only you're forgetting one thing: there are people who convert to Islam. You act as if it never happens. There are christians who become muslims.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Fred, just tell her you feel blessed to have been born Muslim and wrap it up

 

[Fred]

I do actually, i wouldn't have had to go through all that hassle

 

[king Ale]

Fred, just tell her you feel blessed to have been born Muslim and wrap it up

Indeed. But seriously, isn't it unfair that some people are born Muslims and some are not if we assume that Islam is the religion which offers the best for the human?

 

[Zé Tahir]

I do actually, i wouldn't have had to go through all that hassle

Amen. Now, let's eat

 

[Fred]

Thats actually a good idea. Well go check the fridge for any leftovers from todays dinner. :lick:

 

[Zé Tahir]

Indeed. But seriously, isn't it unfair that some people are born Muslims and some are not if we assume that Islam is the religion which offers the best for the human?

I don't see it as a question of fairness. You don't necessarily have to be a Muslim to please God, to be blessed, go to heaven, etc. There are regions of the world that have had no contact with mankind so the chances of them having heard of Islam are slim to none. Sure, God has sent over 100k Prophets to different parts of the world (so the Qur'an says) but how long ago that was or what impact that had is unknown. So long as you lead a good life, respect others, live exemplary then I don't see why you should have a problem (given that you were never exposed to Islam).

 

[king Ale]

I don't see it as a question of fairness. You don't necessarily have to be a Muslim to please God, to be blessed, go to heaven, etc. There are regions of the world that have had no contact with mankind so the chances of them having heard of Islam are slim to none. Sure, God has sent over 100k Prophets to different parts of the world (so the Qur'an says) but how long ago that was or what impact that had is unknown. So long as you lead a good life, respect others, live exemplary then I don't see why you should have a problem (given that you were never exposed to Islam).

Is pleasing God easier if you step on the path of Islam?

 

[Zé Tahir]

Well, I sure hope so. That's a lot of ink on a lot of pages for which a lot of people made a lot of sacrifices for

 

[king Ale]

That's a lot of ink on a lot of pages for which a lot of people made a lot of sacrifices for

Do you think they sacrificed to prove that Islam is the best path to please God?

Well, I sure hope so.

You mean it's only a probability?

 

[Zé Tahir]

Talk about over analyzing Hoori Sheesh.

 

[king Ale]

No really, I don't want to get anything by asking those questions (unlike the argument I had with Fred ). You know, I practiced this religion for most of my life and I was always told that being a Muslim, I do have a closer way to God and this is the way God wanted all of the people to step on. So I had to be thankful that I was born a Muslim, that I had already been stepping on the true path even without wishing for it. If this is true, and if this is the point of me being a Muslim, I find it unfair to those who might never get the chance to know about this religion and this book and you know, they are not to blame because comparing to me, they didn't have the privilege to be born a Muslim. But if this is not the point of being a Muslim, I'd love to know what it is then.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Individually it might be 'unfair' but as a people it is said everyone was given the message of God through various prophets that were sent to different parts of the world. So as a people everyone was given the fair chance.

Individually, I think not being born Muslim is just as unfair as being born dirt poor. It's kind of hard to explain but that's a good way to put it I believe.

 

[Alen]

Individually it might be 'unfair' but as a people it is said everyone was given the message of God through various prophets that were sent to different parts of the world. So as a people everyone was given the fair chance.

And not to mention those other "prophets" who tried to do with weapons what the previous prophets failed to do earlier.

 

[Ian]

A European man is not likely to grasp all the cultural references/proverbs/history you find in the Qu'ran.

I probably shouldn't have said European, but something along the lines of western though.

Seriously? Dude, a muslim from anywhere in the Muslim world is unlikely to understand the cultural references/proverbs/history in the Koran (yeah I'm going to spell it that way because I feel like it...) because he isn't familiar with living at that time. No one alive today is familiar with living in that time. I think an intelligent person, well versed on the situation would have a decent chance to understand what's being said regardless of where they were raised or born.

BTW, the most convincing, devout, and tolerant muslims I have ever met are Nation of Islam from the USA. They come from western background, do they not understand the Koran?