A Pathetic democracy!!! (14 Viewers)

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PhRoZeN

Livin with Mediocre
Mar 29, 2006
15,893
joe5 said:
You have right on this Rebel but if you have lived in Europe and you watched the T.V. news the reporters always say that Palestinians blow up themselves and don't help for the Peace and they show them like "terrorists". I haven't saw anytime on T.V. the Israelish that make raids against inocent Palestinians and trrorize them. It isn't fault of Europeans that because they see only this stuff on T.V. and not the other side. But know that there are many peaple in Europe who are opened-minded and look for the truth out there. Thanks to this thread i think many peaple have learned and the other side, the side of Palestinians. So Keep posting.:)
Totally agree, which supports my claims of the truth not being spread due to the mainstream media owned by zionists as I posted earliar. Its always nice to see people looking for the alternative.. looking at the otherside. I agree it isnt the fault of the people as the people are the victims of being lied to and unfortunately its always hard to seek out the truth but what I admire the most is that nowadays there are "some" news agencys in europe which still spread the truth to a certain extent.
 

Buy on AliExpress.com
Jul 12, 2002
5,666
ReBeL said:
I don't blame European people, Joe. I just want them just to read more about the issue and not to be convinced only by what's show in their TVs...
You mean read more on your side of the issue?
 
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ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #484
    Ian said:
    You mean read more on your side of the issue?
    No, Ian...

    I didn't come here to make an alliance against the other side...

    If you have some of the other party's articles, post them and I'll be pleased to reply to them...
     
    Jul 12, 2002
    5,666
    ReBeL said:
    No, Ian...

    I didn't come here to make an alliance against the other side...

    If you have some of the other party's articles, post them and I'll be pleased to reply to them...
    I'm not on either side. I have my opinions on who is to blame, but that's really irrelevant. You say that people don't read enough on the issue, but clearly, there is plenty to read on both sides. Why can't you just say that you want more people to read your sides propaganda, rather than the other sides? And don't try to say that it's not propaganda, everything gets tilted in this debate. The only real facts are what you can witness on the ground.

    I just think that you're being rather unfair to the Israelis. I mean, you make them out to be a despicable people, hell bent on torturing perfectly innocent Palestinians. Surely that's a bit off, no? Is there not some blame to be had on both sides?
     
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    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
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    Ian said:
    I'm not on either side. I have my opinions on who is to blame, but that's really irrelevant. You say that people don't read enough on the issue, but clearly, there is plenty to read on both sides. Why can't you just say that you want more people to read your sides propaganda, rather than the other sides? And don't try to say that it's not propaganda, everything gets tilted in this debate. The only real facts are what you can witness on the ground.

    I just think that you're being rather unfair to the Israelis. I mean, you make them out to be a despicable people, hell bent on torturing perfectly innocent Palestinians. Surely that's a bit off, no? Is there not some blame to be had on both sides?
    Well, if you see it as a propaganda, give me something of the opposite propoganda to see who may speak the truth...

    I won't comment on the blaming thing because you'll go back to accuse me of playing the role of the victim...
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
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  • Thread Starter #487
    This is one of the reasons that make the whole region unstable...

    Anyway, Israel ignores the solution of getting those refugees back and the Western governments are silent...What a nice joke called "Human Rights"!!!

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Palestinian refugees in Lebanon: Long-standing suffering


    In 1949, the number of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon was 100,000. They had fled or were expelled from their homes and lands in 1948 during the creation of the state of Israel; 58 years later, they are still unable to return to their homes. Their children and grand children were born in Lebanon and never saw the towns and villages from where their families came. Today, over 400,000 of them are registered by the United Nations as refugees in Lebanon.

    The majority of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon live in the 12 official refugee camps serviced by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), an organization created in 1949 to provide relief and work programmes for Palestinian refugees. The land area of the official camps has remained mostly unchanged since 1948 despite the large increase in the Palestinian refugee population in Lebanon.

    The overcrowding created by this situation is worsened by the Lebanese authorities' prohibition of entry of building materials to camps in the south of Lebanon, which hosts some of the largest Palestinian camps, thus preventing inhabitants from making improvements or repairs to their homes. :pumpkin:

    Other Palestinian refugees in Lebanon live either in cities and towns or what are known as unofficial camps, makeshift settlements that have existed since Palestinian refugees arrived in Lebanon. These settlements have limited infrastructure and are poorly constructed because the Lebanese government prohibits all construction work in these unofficial camps. Many families place corrugated metal sheets side-by-side to act as walls or roofs, providing only limited shelter from the heat and the rain. Building with bricks so as to gain greater protection from the elements can lead to trouble. In one case, a woman was arrested by the police and detained until the brick wall her husband had recently built was pulled down.:pumpkin: :pumpkin: :disagree:

    "To build bricks in the ceiling instead we need permission from the local authority; the local authority does not give permissions. We could go to the governorate but it does not give permissions either.” - Khaled, 17 March 2006.

    Khaled has lived with his family in El-Maachouk gathering in Tyre for 32 years where his family moved from Burj El-Shemali (Tyre) to a bigger house. He left school in the fourth grade to support his family when his father was detained during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. He now lives in a small house close to his parents, with his wife and children. His parents' house has one room where the ceiling is made of corrugated metal while the other room has a ceiling made of bamboo sticks topped by mud. “To build bricks in the ceiling instead we need permission from the local authority; the local authority does not give permissions. We could go to the governorate but it does not give permissions either.”

    As for his own house, Khaled “built [the wall of] a small room in 2003; the police came and pulled it down”; he had to pay a LL230,000 fine.

    The actions of the Lebanese authorities, in blocking Palestinian refugees from making improvements to make their accommodation safe, habitable and adequate, violate the duty to respect their housing rights.

    In addition, since 2001, Lebanese law has effectively prevented Palestinian refugees from owning property in Lebanon. The law is worded in a manner that almost exclusively prevents Palestinians from owning property. This law and the building restrictions imposed on Palestinian camps and settlements are discriminatory; they violate the human rights of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, including their housing rights and their right to an adequate standard of living. By discriminating against Palestinian refugees in this manner, Lebanon violates its obligations under several international human rights treaties, including the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, (ICESCR), the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), and the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD).

    The Right to Work

    Amnesty International has long-standing human rights concerns over the restrictions that have been placed for many years on the right to work of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon as well as their rights at work. For years, Palestinians were not allowed to work in dozens of professions in Lebanon including as accountants, secretaries, deputy directors, marketing agents, salespersons, pharmacists, electricians, guards, drivers, cooks, hairdressers or engineers.:tdown:

    In June 2005, however, Lebanon's Minister of Labour issued a decision according to which Palestinian refugees residing in Lebanon would be permitted to work in various occupations that were previously barred to them by law, though not those governed by a professional syndicate (such as engineering, medicine and pharmacy), from which they are still barred.

    In order to benefit from the Minister's decision, Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are still required to obtain a work permit before they can take up employment in one of the occupations that the decision opened to them; as yet, it is not clear to what extent Palestinians have been able to do so and, therefore, whether in practice the ministerial decision of June 2005 has yet had more than a cosmetic effect in reducing actual discrimination against Palestinians and alleviating the conditions to which Palestinian refugees are exposed in Lebanon.

    The severe difficulties faced by Palestinians in accessing employment have a direct effect on their enjoyment of other human rights. This is not only true of their ability to enjoy an adequate standard of living, but also has negative consequences on other rights such as the right to education.

    In many cases, Palestinian families interviewed by Amnesty International said that children dropped out of school as they believe that spending many years of education to finish school or university would be wasted as they would not be able to benefit from their education in order to find work.

    Marwan is one of those young people. He dropped out of school after the 6th grade as his family could not afford the cost of education. He says that “as a Palestinian, you study and pay fees then you can't work… I have cousins who finished school and work in home painting jobs and don't get back any of what they spent.” Marwan learned butchery after he dropped out; he worked for a Lebanese employer for seven years during which he received less than half the salary of his Lebanese counterparts. Marwan took a loan and opened his own butcher's shop inside his home camp in Beirut. His brother left school after 7th grade; “he could have continued his education until he was 25 but make no money. So I took him to work with me in the butcher's shop to learn something with which he can earn a living.”

    Discrimination against those known as "non-ID" Palestinian refugees.

    Non-ID Palestinian refugees are a category of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon who do not possess valid identification documents; due to this, they face more severe restrictions on their human rights than registered refugees. Their number is estimated to be between 3,000 and 5,000. The first generation came to Lebanon from other countries where they had been refugees and were unable to gain residency in Lebanon. As their identity documents expired or were lost, they had neither residency nor valid identification. Subsequent generations have been born to non-ID fathers and – as citizenship is transmitted through the father in Lebanon – were not registered at birth. These second generation children and adults have no legal recognition in Lebanon. One of the major problems that non-ID refugees face is that they are not able freely to move around Lebanon. As they do not have IDs or residency permits, many of them seldom leave refugee camps for fear of being arrested.

    Non-ID refugee children are unable to access formal education, including state or UNRWA education. They can pay to attend private school, but they are unable to take the brévé state exams (leading to an intermediate schooling certificate) and so receive no recognition of their educational achievement or finish school.

    Rola is a 42-years old Palestinian refugee. Her family came to Lebanon in 1948 and are registered with UNRWA. Her husband (whom she divorced) had a Jordanian passport; however, he lost his passport and the Jordanian authorities allegedly refused to renew it.Rola do not have a civil certificate for her marriage, only a religious one. Despite being registered with UNRWA, her children lack such registration; they are non-IDs. They all went to non-UNRWA paying schools. They were not able to continue their education after the 9th grade as they could not sit for the state exams (brévé).

    They are also unable to register their marriages as they have no official registration themselves. In both Palestinian and Lebanese society, marriage is highly regarded. Given the importance of marriage in the Palestinian community in Lebanon, not being able to get or register as married can have profound social consequences and even psychological and economic consequences.

    Miryam is 20 years old; she is a non-ID Palestinian refugee. She has been engaged for five years to a Lebanese man. However, she has not been able to get married as her marriage would not get a civil recognition because she has no documents. Her family has been working on the papers for years, but there seems to be nothing that they can do. She is very depressed.

    The right of return

    Amnesty International believes that durable solutions respectful of the human rights of Palestinian refugees must be made available to them in any final peace agreement between the Palestinian Authority and Israel. Amnesty International recognizes that voluntary repatriation in safety and dignity is the preferred durable solution for refugees. The right of return is enshrined in international law and Amnesty International believes that Palestinian refugees should be able to exercise their right of return to their homes and lands.

    Of the three durable solutions for refugees - resettlement in a third country, local integration, and voluntary repatriation - the third is often recognized as the preferred solution for refugees. However, voluntary repatriation has been inaccessible to Palestinian refugees since their flight in 1948 due to the refusal of the state of Israel to allow them to return to their homes and lands in Israel, or to the Palestinian Occupied Territories.

    No significant resettlement efforts for Palestinian refugees have taken place since 1948. There have been and continue to be individual refugees who seek to emigrate and live in third countries; however, for nearly 60 years, the only available alternative for most Palestinian refugees has been to remain in Lebanon.

    Amnesty International believes that until such time as the right of return is fulfilled, Palestinian refugees should benefit from civil and political, as well as economic, social and cultural rights in their host countries on the basis of equality with nationals, including, but not limited to, the right to work, the right to education, the right to healthcare, the right to adequate housing and the right to an adequate standard of living.

    In accordance with the principle of international burden and responsibility-sharing, the international community has, in the case of the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, an important role to play in providing assistance to Lebanon to enable it to extend the highest possible level of enjoyment of human rights to its refugee population.

    http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/AMMF-6NYGWV?OpenDocument&rc=3&emid=ACOS-635PFR
     

    Enron

    Tickle Me
    Moderator
    Oct 11, 2005
    75,254
    PhRoZeN said:
    In stalins case, he was the whole leader of a nation and had already out the law of factionalism that no group could ever rise if so then they would be either exiled or put in jail.. this is different israel doesnt own all of palestine.. just yet.. although what it is doing is setting up divides and at the same time sending its bulldozers across and taking over peoples land whenever it feels necessary. Also during the times when stalin was around there wasnt enough internation presence anywhere thus other international countries never really knew about the hidden matters and couldnt find out due to communist regime. However in this case there is every reason a people can find out but they either dont, or when they do they just give israel a warning and thats all we hear of the end of it.

    The british in india case was remarkably different too.. the british spent more emphasis on gaining materials and income out of the land that they colonised and as a result suppress there culture on the indians rather than spending a lot of time killing the native indians that lived in their country.. as a result it was all about money. People like indra gandhi, brought a better understanding amongst the british and his native indians which helped the british to give the independence to india during 1947 thanks to the indian national congress which was set up to talk only. This clearly shows that the british were willing to actually listen to the indians unlike now. Israel is not willingly to listen to palestinians they have breached more ceasefires more agreements than the opposite they are also known to be breaching many UN resolution and as a result aint nowhere as a democratic country as its allys the U.S and most especially U.K. I have already shown in my previous posts how they were the first to have breached the oslo agreement.
    I agree with you that the cases are different and the the British-India comparison was a bit of a stretch on my part. You can't ignore that the Soviets and Isreali's did and do use similer tactics to frighten and control the people. I think they are similar in that aspect, though not entirely as you pointed out.
     

    - vOnAm -

    Senior Member
    Jul 22, 2004
    3,779
    Here was one of the reports of the recent bombing. Very in-depth stuffs, no? :D Objectively portraying whats been happening.:smoke:

    yahoo AP(associated press) news
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Suicide Bombings Since Truce Mon Apr 17, 9:58 AM ET



    Palestinian militants have carried out nine suicide attacks in Israel and the West Bank since a Feb. 8, 2005, truce declaration. All but one attack have been carried out by Islamic Jihad, a violent group with close ties to Iran:

    • April 17, 2006: A bomber blows himself up at a Tel Aviv restaurant targeted previously, killing eight other people.

    • March 30, 2006: A bomber disguised as a Jewish hitchhiker blows himself up in a car outside a West Bank settlement, killing four Israelis who stopped to pick him up. The Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, a violent offshoot of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah Party, claims responsibility.

    • Jan. 19, 2006: A bomber disguised as a peddler blows himself up at a Tel Aviv felafel restaurant, wounding 20 people.

    • Dec. 29, 2005: A bomber explodes at an Israeli army checkpoint in the West Bank, killing an Israeli soldier and two Palestinians.

    • Dec. 5, 2005: A bomber blows himself up at a shopping mall in the coastal town of Netanya, killing five.

    • Oct. 26, 2005: A bomber blows himself up in Hadera at a food stand, killing five.

    • Aug. 28, 2005: A bomber blows himself up in the southern city of Beersheba, killing only himself.

    • July 12, 2005: A bomber blows himself up outside a shopping mall in Netanya, killing five.

    • Feb. 25, 2005: In the first attack after a truce is declared, a bomber blows himself up near a Tel Aviv nightclub, killing four.
     

    JCK

    Biased
    JCK
    May 11, 2004
    123,580
    ahead said:
    :D but Rebel's posts are great.. no offence to Chxta :D
    That's because you are interested in the Palestinian conflict, had you been interested in Nigerian issues, you would have said Chxta's posts are great. You don't want to hear my opinion on either issue.
     

    un altro alex

    Senior Member
    Jan 15, 2006
    633
    anyway's i think that just the fact that there have 497 replies to this thread are a good sign towards the resolution of the conflict, simply because there are some people that seem to care. after all this is a Juventus fans forum, not the Model United Nations :p so the response can be taken as relatively large.
     
    Jul 5, 2005
    2,653
    Tal222 said:
    do u mean Israel-Palestine problem?
    For every man who suffers there is a problem. But i see that the numper of victims from Palestinians side are more, and in this life we speak with numbers you know.

    I want to tell you that i am not against Jews and i am against to any type of racism. But i know judge one person from the thinks that he says and the thinks that he does. For me there aren't good and bad races, but there are good and bad peaple.

    I think that the Palestinians, as every man in this Earth, has the right to defend himself from any think that tries to restrain his rights to walk free in the land of their ancestors, and not have the troupers to stamp them with their guns and terrorize them.
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #499
    joe5 said:
    For every man who suffers there is a problem. But i see that the numper of victims from Palestinians side are more, and in this life we speak with numbers you know.

    I want to tell you that i am not against Jews and i am against to any type of racism. But i know judge one person from the thinks that he says and the thinks that he does. For me there aren't good and bad races, but there are good and bad peaple.

    I think that the Palestinians, as every man in this Earth, has the right to defend himself from any think that tries to restrain his rights to walk free in the land of their ancestors, and not have the troupers to stamp them with their guns and terrorize them.
    Very well said, Joe...:agree: :agree:
     
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