A Pathetic democracy!!! (5 Viewers)

[ReBeL]

Always the victim. Well played...:groan:

Just look at the holocaust claims, then come to tell me who is playing the victim's role...

I don't look for anybody's sympathy, because it won't be by any way useful to me...

I just want to show the Westerns that their democracy is nothing but a big joke...

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[- vOnAm -]

I think many in this thread still don't understand clearly the real situation out there.

 

[Enron]

I think more people do that you give credit. Its just that some are not as biased as others would like.

 

[Enron]

Just look at the holocaust claims, then come to tell me who is playing the victim's role...

I don't look for anybody's sympathy, because it won't be by any way useful to me...

I just want to show the Westerns that their democracy is nothing but a big joke...

Number 1 Are you saying the Holocaust didn't happen? If so I have an uncle who begs to differ. As a member of Easy Company in the 101st he was on of the first to view the atrocities.

Number 2 If democracy is nothing but a big joke how come everybody is doing it? And if it is a big joke, then I assume you think oligarchy and totalitarianism work better.

Come on man, enough with the stand up comedy.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Rebel you are an idiot assclown.

 

[Enron]

It's very interesting how everybody highlights one bombing every 3 months while forgetting the daily Israeli crimes...

Just go back to that article and read what were the reasons for the bombing...

Yeah I did, the thousands of Palestinians in jail. An honorable reason, no doubt. But Im gonna have to go American Idol on this one and say his song selection was a little week. Palestinians in jail warrent blowing up a fast food restuarant? And in the middle of a cease fire in which even Hamas were chilling out. Fucking retarded if you ask me. That idiot should have blown up an Isreali courthouse, it would have been more symbolic. But hey, its all good right I mean some Jew kids died so Ill bet you got your jollies for the day.

 

[ReBeL]

Rebel you are an idiot assclown.

I didn't expect much of you...

Have fun...

 

[- vOnAm -]

I think more people do that you give credit. Its just that some are not as biased as others would like.

I meant it on a more neutral point of view.
If they ARE in a cease fire then it would be a step backwards to do such a bombing, but like the palestinian guy said, they are getting terrorized each day without anybody knowing about it. So did the cease fire really exist ? Or did we just not know what happened or is happening?

Just trying to give light on issue. The popular view in the west would be that Isreal is holding back all military aggressions while the palestinians seem to enjoy killing themselves up and taking along a few innocent isrealis along the way.

Revenge will never be the solution to peace but you must understand clearly what Justice means before you start judging who attacked, who defended and who needs to be punished or understood.

 

[ReBeL]

Number 1 Are you saying the Holocaust didn't happen? If so I have an uncle who begs to differ. As a member of Easy Company in the 101st he was on of the first to view the atrocities.

Number 2 If democracy is nothing but a big joke how come everybody is doing it? And if it is a big joke, then I assume you think oligarchy and totalitarianism work better.

Come on man, enough with the stand up comedy.

I didn't deny the holocaust, but if it was that much horrible, why should I pay for it??

Why doesn't this ßömßärdîër thing pay for what his ancestors did??

And I didn't say democracy is joke. I said WESTERN democracy is a big joke, because they want the Arabs to be ruled by one of their friends, not the one that is elected directly and democratically by people!!!

 

[ReBeL]

I meant it on a more neutral point of view.
If they ARE in a cease fire then it would be a step backwards to do such a bombing, but like the palestinian guy said, they are getting terrorized each day without anybody knowing about it. So did the cease fire really exist ? Or did we just not know what happened or is happening?

Just trying to give light on issue. The popular view in the west would be that Isreal is holding back all military aggressions while the palestinians seem to enjoy killing themselves up and taking along a few innocent isrealis along the way.

Revenge will never be the solution to peace but you must understand clearly what Justice means before you start judging who attacked, who defended and who needs to be punished or understood.

Very well said...

That's what I tried to say...

 

[Enron]

I didn't deny the holocaust, but if it was that much horrible, why should I pay for it??

Why doesn't this ßömßärdîër thing pay for what his ancestors did??

And I didn't say democracy is joke. I said WESTERN democracy is a big joke, because they want the Arabs to be ruled by one of their friends, not the one that is elected directly and democratically by people!!!

Why do you speak as though an administration speaks for all of western democracy?
I think my president is a retard and a greedy bastard and that he should be removed from office for a number of reasons. But that doesnt matter.
If you want the EU to deal with Hamas then Palestinian organizations must give a show of good faith as Hamas was trying to do with the cease fire. As you keep saying the Arab people in Isreal are underdogs. If they are to accomplish anything acts of violence such as this just cannot happen, especially those that target civilians.
The view of the West is that Arabs are just zealots with bombs in their coats. In order to sway this thought the Palestinian nation needs to show that senseless acts of violence are not what they do anymore. Progress takes patience and change does not happen over night as I am sure you know. As for yesterday's bombing, even the elected Palestinian President said the bombing was dumb. Such acts take progress and shred it into little pieces of nothingness.

 

[Enron]

Very well said...

That's what I tried to say...

Then why not say it?

 

[- vOnAm -]

Just to comment on that...even Democracy has its flaws. And sometimes Authoritarian type governments aren't bad at all (I mean when they benifit the overall lives of the people).

Not all ideas are for everybody and not everybody are willing to accept them thus the act of forcing Democracy in itself is unDemocratic.
To me democracy (the one that the US is so desperate to spread) is overrated and overhyped by the media.

 

[Enron]

I meant it on a more neutral point of view.
If they ARE in a cease fire then it would be a step backwards to do such a bombing, but like the palestinian guy said, they are getting terrorized each day without anybody knowing about it. So did the cease fire really exist ? Or did we just not know what happened or is happening?

Just trying to give light on issue. The popular view in the west would be that Isreal is holding back all military aggressions while the palestinians seem to enjoy killing themselves up and taking along a few innocent isrealis along the way.

Revenge will never be the solution to peace but you must understand clearly what Justice means before you start judging who attacked, who defended and who needs to be punished or understood.

I understand that Isreali tanks roll daily through Palestinian towns and do unlawful searches and investigations and probably some unspeakable acts, just as Stalin's troops did, just as the British did in India, and as many other countries have unjustly done to their people. And I said nothing about who attacked, who defended and who needs to be punished or understood. All I know is that innocent civilians need to stop dying in the streets.

 

[ReBeL]

Why do you speak as though an administration speaks for all of western democracy?
I think my president is a retard and a greedy bastard and that he should be removed from office for a number of reasons. But that doesnt matter.
If you want the EU to deal with Hamas then Palestinian organizations must give a show of good faith as Hamas was trying to do with the cease fire. As you keep saying the Arab people in Isreal are underdogs. If they are to accomplish anything acts of violence such as this just cannot happen, especially those that target civilians.
The view of the West is that Arabs are just zealots with bombs in their coats. In order to sway this thought the Palestinian nation needs to show that senseless acts of violence are not what they do anymore. Progress takes patience and change does not happen over night as I am sure you know. As for yesterday's bombing, even the elected Palestinian President said the bombing was dumb. Such acts take progress and shred it into little pieces of nothingness.

Ok...

Let's assume Palestinians stop the bombings...

How will you know that Israelis are continuing their crimes??

Just look at this website, which is an American one, by the way:

http://www.rememberthesechildren.org/remember2006.html

And I'm generalizing the Western viewpoint because as you see, nobody in Europe have guts to have another opinion other than the American biased opinion...

If you saw the Danish delegate talking in front of the security board yesterday about this issue, you'll know that West is one coin with different faces...

 

[Enron]

Just to comment on that...even Democracy has its flaws. And sometimes Authoritarian type governments aren't bad at all (I mean when they benifit the overall lives of the people).

Not all ideas are for everybody and not everybody are willing to accept them thus the act of forcing Democracy in itself is unDemocratic.
To me democracy (the one that the US is so desperate to spread) is overrated and overhyped by the media.

Our brand of Democracy is very difficult to emulate as many countries have found out. But other brands of Democracy, particularly those found in Europe that still revolve around the two house senate and royalty are probably more easily emulated in countries of the Middle East. As for authoritarian governments, they are hit and miss, if a good man has control of a country the people will prosper, if a bad man is in the same position the country will decline. The problem with an authoritarian government is that even if the current ruler is a good man or woman, they will die and eventually someone of less moral quality will come to power. Also with only a single leader coups are very easily staged and leaders easily replaced. Research of South American governments will reflect this very heavily. The best government is a blend of democracy with another form of government, though preferably not an oligarchy or authoritarian government. Democracy does blend well with monarchy and socialism.

 

[- vOnAm -]

I understand that Isreali tanks roll daily through Palestinian towns and do unlawful searches and investigations and probably some unspeakable acts, just as Stalin's troops did, just as the British did in India, and as many other countries have unjustly done to their people. And I said nothing about who attacked, who defended and who needs to be punished or understood. All I know is that innocent civilians need to stop dying in the streets.

That is ofcourse the wishes of many, including Palestinians and Jews alike.

If you understand that tanks roll daily through Palestinian towns then perhaps it might not be too much to see why ReBel is so sensitive about the matter, especially when people just start to blame Palestinians for the conflict. Its hits home too much when you go through these events. I would likewise say the same for any israeli here that might have seen bloodshed in their presence.

So as out siders we should atleast try to be more sensitive with our choices of words. I think thats the real matter here.

 

[Enron]

Ok...

Let's assume Palestinians stop the bombings...

How will you know that Israelis are continuing their crimes??

Just look at this website, which is an American one, by the way:

http://www.rememberthesechildren.org/remember2006.html

And I'm generalizing the Western viewpoint because as you see, nobody in Europe have guts to have another opinion other than the American biased opinion...

If you saw the Danish delegate talking in front of the security board yesterday about this issue, you'll know that West is one coin with different faces...

Just an idea here. What would happen if the Arab population in the Isreal were to unite and form some sort of organized Congress and write an official declaration of Independence, asking for a specific area of Isreal? Do you think that could ever happen?

 

[Enron]

That is ofcourse the wishes of many, including Palestinians and Jews alike.

If you understand that tanks roll daily through Palestinian towns then perhaps it might not be too much to see why ReBel is so sensitive about the matter, especially when people just start to blame Palestinians for the conflict. Its hits home too much when you go through these events. I would likewise say the same for any israeli here that might have seen bloodshed in their presence.

So as out siders we should atleast try to be more sensitive with our choices of words. I think thats the real matter here.

My old soccer coach is from Palestine. So trust me Ive heard the horror stories. He tells one of being 6 or 7 and playing football in the streets only to have soldiers shoot his ball during their game.

My main problem is that posters seem to be condoning or even glorifying bloodshed. Violence is sometimes necessary but should never be condoned. I think the problem we have here is the notion of revenge in eastern and western cultures. What do you think?

 

[- vOnAm -]

Our brand of Democracy is very difficult to emulate as many countries have found out. But other brands of Democracy, particularly those found in Europe that still revolve around the two house senate and royalty are probably more easily emulated in countries of the Middle East. As for authoritarian governments, they are hit and miss, if a good man has control of a country the people will prosper, if a bad man is in the same position the country will decline. The problem with an authoritarian government is that even if the current ruler is a good man or woman, they will die and eventually someone of less moral quality will come to power. Also with only a single leader coups are very easily staged and leaders easily replaced. Research of South American governments will reflect this very heavily. The best government is a blend of democracy with another form of government, though preferably not an oligarchy or authoritarian government. Democracy does blend well with monarchy and socialism.

Thats spot on what I meant too (in bold)

With Authoritarian (as the name suggest) the well bieng of the people is more or less dependant on 1 person or a certain group of people. While it may bring prosperity it may also bring oppression, depending on who rules.

Now to me the difference is that with Authoritarian governments, things happen quickly...bad governments are overthrown quickly but good governments fall down quickly too (like your point in single leader coups).

Democracy in the other hand works very slow. When good leaders are in place it will take time before they can be overtaken by bad leaders, but once bad leaders are there, it will also take alot of time before good leaders can be inplace again. (like whats happening to your government now )

For me the formula is that in the begining stages (underdeveloped or developing nations) it is best to keep alot of Authoritarian system in the government and then slowly as the country develops and its people learn and educate themselves, establish a democratic system, over time. This is the quickest was for a country to get on its feet and stay there.

The flaw is that in the begining Authoritarian system, WHO will lead? It takes a good leader to start but with that system you are not guarenteed a good leader. So it is somewhat risky, but then again when you have a full democracy, not the best leaders may be chosen anyways since the people might not know(educated enough to see) who is the best for them.

Malaysia gets my vote for a study(model) of how Democracy can and should be established in a country without ALL of the exact ingredients as in the US or any other country for that matter.