A Pathetic democracy!!! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
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How can they (Pale) open the door to a future that they will never be happy for..
How can they open the door to something they dont have.. Something that is stole from them... There will never be peace, if Palestine dosent get there land back and become the country they where BEFORE the israelis came there...
And that might mean a destruction of Israel.. Even if i dont see that happening...
No i dident say DONT WRITE HERE AT ALL!!
I said do it without saying "fuck you, fuck that, fuck this"
And its not the truth IMO.. its just your opinion...
How can they open the door to something they dont have.. Something that is stole from them... There will never be peace, if Palestine dosent get there land back and become the country they where BEFORE the israelis came there...
And that might mean a destruction of Israel.. Even if i dont see that happening...
No i dident say DONT WRITE HERE AT ALL!!
I said do it without saying "fuck you, fuck that, fuck this"
And its not the truth IMO.. its just your opinion...
Oh please... he said it twice under provocation... whats the big deal...
You are jus using it (as your friend is) as an excuse and to detract from the fact that even with his somewhat flawed argument he has outdone you all...
You both keep saying hes wrong and your arguments are stronger but fail to put it across..
Either stop whinging and out debate him or shut up... show us what you got... Cause at the moment you lot are looking rather weak..
No one here is speaking the actual truth... On this subject there is no "truth"... theres opinions from 2 sides and several angles... Its all opinions and you should all show a lil more respect for that...
And at least his opinion comes from a lil knowledge of the subject... unlike those that were commenting on the ira earlier in the thread who clearly had absolutely no clue what Northern Ireland is all about..
You are jus using it (as your friend is) as an excuse and to detract from the fact that even with his somewhat flawed argument he has outdone you all...
You both keep saying hes wrong and your arguments are stronger but fail to put it across..
Either stop whinging and out debate him or shut up... show us what you got... Cause at the moment you lot are looking rather weak..
No one here is speaking the actual truth... On this subject there is no "truth"... theres opinions from 2 sides and several angles... Its all opinions and you should all show a lil more respect for that...
And at least his opinion comes from a lil knowledge of the subject... unlike those that were commenting on the ira earlier in the thread who clearly had absolutely no clue what Northern Ireland is all about..
PhRoZeN said:
Make your mind up 
You said his got a flawed argument? yet he is speaking with some knowledge? doesnt make sense.. explain.
Contarary you say that our arguments are stronger but we have the problem to actually say it. So if you recognise our arguments then why speak up about it?
I see a lot of contradiction here.. you seem more confused than all of us.
You said his got a flawed argument? yet he is speaking with some knowledge? doesnt make sense.. explain.
Contarary you say that our arguments are stronger but we have the problem to actually say it. So if you recognise our arguments then why speak up about it?
I see a lot of contradiction here.. you seem more confused than all of us.
Theres no confusion or contradiction in what i said...
He has imo a flawed argument, that doesnt mean his argument isnt based on knowledge... jus that it is an argument that any reasonable debater could open up and expose... something you have failed to do.
Jus cause there are holes in his statements also has no bearing on whether he has knowledge of the subject... It is clear from his writing he has an understanding of the situations you discuss.
I never said your arguments were stronger... I said his argument has flaws..
whether i agree with you or he is irrelevant as i dont care either way...
You start the discussion with him , you tell us your arguments are stronger, yet he answers you all at everyturn and you all giving nothing... choosing to turn your attentions to a minor expletive rather than opening his flaws and showing these great arguments that you supposedly have... As such my statement stands...
Thats incredibly lame..
Now if all you had said in the thread was that single statement... then indeed you would not need to debate, you could jus stick to your one statement and seek an answer... (Though of course you need to reflect hius answer and as such debate)... However you didnt, you placed yourself in the discussion and as such a single statement is no longer appropriate, you question the man, you must have the decency to discuss to an outcome...
Now if all you had said in the thread was that single statement... then indeed you would not need to debate, you could jus stick to your one statement and seek an answer... (Though of course you need to reflect hius answer and as such debate)... However you didnt, you placed yourself in the discussion and as such a single statement is no longer appropriate, you question the man, you must have the decency to discuss to an outcome...
As unfortunate and sadistic this may seem, I am going to the roots of this discussion and adding my relevant comments and arguments to those that were pointed out earliar. So if the person who originally wrote the comments doesnt want to reply to what I type, then that is clearly understandble especially as the discussion was held a while back. Nevertheless I hope my points are acknolwedged and bring a better understanding to this predicament.
Whether Palestinians started killing or not (Though they never started and I don't know from where you bringing these facts) They have all the right to do that as long as that land belongs to them. You wouldn't want any stranger entering your house taking your bed and kitchen and you expect yourself not to do anything. It's your homeland you defend it.
You can call me terrorist, killer, mother fucker, but one thing I know that my land is mine and belongs to my people, people are welcome to work, visit, live in peace, but NOT TAKE MY OWN LAND and rape my wife and my kids and slap me infront of my family and treat me like a dogg. I'll make sure to kill anyone who'll ever occupy my land. and you can call me Terrorist If thats your definition of it.
Oh Please.....the walls were built for safety?? Ian please, even Israeli's DO know that the walls were never built for safety. I wouldn't want to imagine my daughter's school is 10kilometers away from my home when she can't go there just because of THAT wall who is preventing her to go to her OWN goddamn school. You wouldn't want to imagine your farm or anything you own or wherever you work is behind that wall, then i suppose you're screwed eh????
Again, don't let the media here play the innocent role.
What are you trying to suggest here....to take down the weapons from them??? or to ask them not to fight back???? Lets be honest little bit, you ONLY see what you WANT to see, meaning that when Israeli's destroy your villa or your house or even the Football field FFS where your kids play, you expect palestinians not to fight back or return it back???? not to forget that you even call them terrorsit when they reply back, but we have to call the Israeli's here "Angels" for raping my wife and my daughter every day???? thats logic eh??
Seriously, what do you know about Islam???? that they carry bombs and wherever they go they'll be bombing themselves??? is that how you really think Islam is??? I pity you.
No offence but this is why you lot dont win these "debates"
Rather than go on the offensive and accuse him of ignorance... explain why he's wrong...
You dont know what he knows... He may well have knowledge of an aspect of the subject but in your view not all... as such it jus needs explanation...
The difference between radical islam and islam is a prime example of these types of misconceptions throughout the world today...
Its not ignorance, its possibly not seeing the whole story, maybe there are reasons why so many people across the globe feel a certain way in this time..
Is it so hard to explain it from your view and ask for an explanatioon of the other parties viewpoint...
Do you lot not trust in your own ability to state your case ?
Theres a real possibility of a worthwhile discussion here... why ruin it with those kinds of comments...
Rather than go on the offensive and accuse him of ignorance... explain why he's wrong...
You dont know what he knows... He may well have knowledge of an aspect of the subject but in your view not all... as such it jus needs explanation...
The difference between radical islam and islam is a prime example of these types of misconceptions throughout the world today...
Its not ignorance, its possibly not seeing the whole story, maybe there are reasons why so many people across the globe feel a certain way in this time..
Is it so hard to explain it from your view and ask for an explanatioon of the other parties viewpoint...
Do you lot not trust in your own ability to state your case ?
Theres a real possibility of a worthwhile discussion here... why ruin it with those kinds of comments...
Rule of law.. forgetting violence, two situations that certainly dont apply to the country who recieved the most AID in the world? who is that Israel.
Israel, whose population is 0.1% of the total world population, gets roughly one-third of all US foreign aid. Annually this amounts to more than $3 billion in US taxpayer dollars going to Israel, $2.04 billion of that is military aid.
Rule of law: Under UN Resolution 242, Israel is required by international law to withdraw from all the territories occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem. The UN has stated time and time again, the only way to end the violence is to end the occupation.
Now is that Rule of law? heres more..
Since October 2000, 580 homes were demolished or blown up. 291 acres of land was confiscated. 34,606 olive & fruit trees were uprooted. In East Jerusalem, Palestinian homes are demolished and land confiscated in order to ensure Jews have a majority in the city (the “Silent Transfer”).
The Israeli occupation government has been stealing annually, since 1967, up to 80% of the groundwater from the "Mountain Reservoir," a group of groundwater aquifers located underneath the mountains of the Occupied West Bank of Palestine, including the Occupied Jerusalem. The Palestinian people are allowed no control of these extensive water resources.
Now moving on without boring you...
Israelis possess overwhelming military superiority over the Palestinians. The Palestinians have used violent means to resist the occupation, but that does not take away from the fact that Israeli soldiers are shooting individuals with missiles, using American made F-16s and Apache helicopters. Tanks roll into refugee camps, supposedly to root out terrorists. But so many of these so-called terrorists are small children.
According to B'Tselem, 897 of the Palestinians killed from September 29, 2000 though March 30, 2002 have been civilians, including 192 children. There were over 108 assassinations (a war crime according to the Hague Convention -1907).
All the above sources? are not from muslims or palestinians... infact they are from JEWS themselves (http://www.jatonyc.org/fact.htm).. they see the truth.. now who are you going to believe. We have jounralists such as john pilgar who has also reported about illigal occupation as well as many MP'S in britain including the former secrtary of liberal and democrats. Newspapers in britain support the "end of illegal occupation" primarily the independent and guardian being two of them.
Below are some facts that the despite Israel being part of democracy they are breaking the "RULES" themselves so much so that they have broken in total 69 UN convention rules...
Palestinian Refugees have the right to return to their homes in Israel.
General Assembly Resolution 194, Dec. 11, 1948
"Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible."
Israel's occupation of Palestine is Illegal.
Security Council Resolution 242, Nov. 22, 1967
Calls for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in the war that year and "the acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."
Israel's settlements in Palestine are Illegal.
Security Council Resolution 446, March 22, 1979
"Determines that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East."
Palestinian have the right to Self-Determination.
General Assembly Resolution 3236, November 22, 1974
Affirms "the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine...to self-determination without external interference" and "to national independence and sovereignty."
Reaffirmation of a Palestinian State
Security Council Resolution 1397, March 12, 2002
Affirms "a vision of a region where two states, Israel and Palestine, live side by sie within secure and recognized borders."
Also see:
UN General Assembly Resolution 181 - the 1947 Partition plan of Palestine and the creation of Israel.
International Humanitarian Law: the Geneva Conventions - 150 years of international designated protection of civilians during wartime and Israel's explicit violations.
History of the Palestinian Problem - from the Division for Palestinian Rights, United Nations
Countless More UN Resolutions on Israel - 1955-1992
More UN Resolutions on Israel, 1955-1992
Resolution 106: condemns Israel for Gaza raid.
Resolution 111: condemns Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people.
Resolution 127: recommends Israel suspend its no-man's zone' in Jerusalem.
Resolution 162: urges Israel to comply with UN decisions.
Resolution 171: determines flagrant violations by Israel in its attack on Syria.
Resolution 228: censures Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control.
Resolution 237: urges Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees.
Resolution 248: condemns Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan.
Resolution 250: calls on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem.
Resolution 251: deeply deplores Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250.
Resolution 252: declares invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital.
Resolution 256: condemns Israeli raids on Jordan as flagrant violation.
Resolution 259: deplores Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation.
Resolution 262: condemns Israel for attack on Beirut airport.
Resolution 265: condemns Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan.
Resolution 267: censures Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem.
Resolution 270: condemns Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon.
Resolution 271: condemns Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem.
Resolution 279: demands withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 280: condemns Israeli's attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 285: demands immediate Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 298: deplores Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem.
Resolution 313: demands that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 316: condemns Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon.
Resolution 317: deplores Israel's refusal to release.
Resolution 332: condemns Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 337: condemns Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty.
Resolution 347: condemns Israeli attacks on Lebanon.
Resolution 425: calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 427: calls on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 444: deplores Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces.
Resolution 446: determines that Israeli settlements are a serious obstruction to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
Resolution 450: calls on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.
Resolution 452: calls on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.
Resolution 465: deplores Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist its settlements program.
Resolution 467: strongly deplores Israel's military intervention in Lebanon.
Resolution 468: calls on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return.
Resolution 469: strongly deplores Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians.
Resolution 471: expresses deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 476: reiterates that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are null and void.
Resolution 478: censures (Israel) in the strongest terms for its claim to Jerusalem in its Basic Law.
Resolution 484: declares it imperative that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors.
Resolution 487: strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.
Resolution 497: decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights
is null and void and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.
Resolution 498: calls on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.
Resolution 501: calls on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.
Resolution 509: demands that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon.
Resolution 515: demands that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in.
Resolution 517: censures Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 518: demands that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon.
Resolution 520: condemns Israel's attack into West Beirut.
Resolution 573: condemns Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.
Resolution 587: takes note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw.
Resolution 592: strongly deplores the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.
Resolution 605: strongly deplores Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
Resolution 607: calls on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 608: deeply regrets that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 636: deeply regrets Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 641: deplores Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 672: condemns Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram Al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
Resolution 673: deplores Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
Resolution 681: deplores Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 694: deplores Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
Resolution 726: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 799: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.
Without boring you with the facts which seem so obvious for those who actually read up on the matter than rely on a guy who looks thing sup on wikipedia out of all the things.
Firstly the International law is very clear on two basic principles: the acquisition of territory by war and the prohibition of the transfer of civilians of the occupying Power to the occupied territory. Both are intended to prevent the colonisation of occupied territories. Both complement another explicit principle of international law, namely the right of peoples to self-determination, a right that a colonial or occupying Power is obliged to respect.
The Israeli occupation has clearly violated all three of these principles of international law. In fact, throughout its prolonged occupation, Israel has persistently and aggressively breached international law as I showed above.
Thus, what makes the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land illegal is not the fact that it occurred during the war of 1967 (regardless of the narrative concerning the causes of the war). What makes the Israeli occupation illegal is that it has existed for 35 years, during which time it transformed into a form of colonialism and suppressed and oppressed an entire people for decades, preventing them from the exercise of their right to self-determination and the establishment of their State, Palestine.
I think that answers my points regarding the occupation and how ISRAEL is not a democratic country yet it recieves the most AID in the world most notably from the U.S.
Israel, whose population is 0.1% of the total world population, gets roughly one-third of all US foreign aid. Annually this amounts to more than $3 billion in US taxpayer dollars going to Israel, $2.04 billion of that is military aid.
Rule of law: Under UN Resolution 242, Israel is required by international law to withdraw from all the territories occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem. The UN has stated time and time again, the only way to end the violence is to end the occupation.
Now is that Rule of law? heres more..
Since October 2000, 580 homes were demolished or blown up. 291 acres of land was confiscated. 34,606 olive & fruit trees were uprooted. In East Jerusalem, Palestinian homes are demolished and land confiscated in order to ensure Jews have a majority in the city (the “Silent Transfer”).
The Israeli occupation government has been stealing annually, since 1967, up to 80% of the groundwater from the "Mountain Reservoir," a group of groundwater aquifers located underneath the mountains of the Occupied West Bank of Palestine, including the Occupied Jerusalem. The Palestinian people are allowed no control of these extensive water resources.
Now moving on without boring you...
Israelis possess overwhelming military superiority over the Palestinians. The Palestinians have used violent means to resist the occupation, but that does not take away from the fact that Israeli soldiers are shooting individuals with missiles, using American made F-16s and Apache helicopters. Tanks roll into refugee camps, supposedly to root out terrorists. But so many of these so-called terrorists are small children.
According to B'Tselem, 897 of the Palestinians killed from September 29, 2000 though March 30, 2002 have been civilians, including 192 children. There were over 108 assassinations (a war crime according to the Hague Convention -1907).
All the above sources? are not from muslims or palestinians... infact they are from JEWS themselves (http://www.jatonyc.org/fact.htm).. they see the truth.. now who are you going to believe. We have jounralists such as john pilgar who has also reported about illigal occupation as well as many MP'S in britain including the former secrtary of liberal and democrats. Newspapers in britain support the "end of illegal occupation" primarily the independent and guardian being two of them.
Below are some facts that the despite Israel being part of democracy they are breaking the "RULES" themselves so much so that they have broken in total 69 UN convention rules...
Palestinian Refugees have the right to return to their homes in Israel.
General Assembly Resolution 194, Dec. 11, 1948
"Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible."
Israel's occupation of Palestine is Illegal.
Security Council Resolution 242, Nov. 22, 1967
Calls for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in the war that year and "the acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."
Israel's settlements in Palestine are Illegal.
Security Council Resolution 446, March 22, 1979
"Determines that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East."
Palestinian have the right to Self-Determination.
General Assembly Resolution 3236, November 22, 1974
Affirms "the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine...to self-determination without external interference" and "to national independence and sovereignty."
Reaffirmation of a Palestinian State
Security Council Resolution 1397, March 12, 2002
Affirms "a vision of a region where two states, Israel and Palestine, live side by sie within secure and recognized borders."
Also see:
UN General Assembly Resolution 181 - the 1947 Partition plan of Palestine and the creation of Israel.
International Humanitarian Law: the Geneva Conventions - 150 years of international designated protection of civilians during wartime and Israel's explicit violations.
History of the Palestinian Problem - from the Division for Palestinian Rights, United Nations
Countless More UN Resolutions on Israel - 1955-1992
More UN Resolutions on Israel, 1955-1992
Resolution 106: condemns Israel for Gaza raid.
Resolution 111: condemns Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people.
Resolution 127: recommends Israel suspend its no-man's zone' in Jerusalem.
Resolution 162: urges Israel to comply with UN decisions.
Resolution 171: determines flagrant violations by Israel in its attack on Syria.
Resolution 228: censures Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control.
Resolution 237: urges Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees.
Resolution 248: condemns Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan.
Resolution 250: calls on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem.
Resolution 251: deeply deplores Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250.
Resolution 252: declares invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital.
Resolution 256: condemns Israeli raids on Jordan as flagrant violation.
Resolution 259: deplores Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation.
Resolution 262: condemns Israel for attack on Beirut airport.
Resolution 265: condemns Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan.
Resolution 267: censures Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem.
Resolution 270: condemns Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon.
Resolution 271: condemns Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem.
Resolution 279: demands withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 280: condemns Israeli's attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 285: demands immediate Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 298: deplores Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem.
Resolution 313: demands that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 316: condemns Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon.
Resolution 317: deplores Israel's refusal to release.
Resolution 332: condemns Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon.
Resolution 337: condemns Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty.
Resolution 347: condemns Israeli attacks on Lebanon.
Resolution 425: calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 427: calls on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
Resolution 444: deplores Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces.
Resolution 446: determines that Israeli settlements are a serious obstruction to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
Resolution 450: calls on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.
Resolution 452: calls on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.
Resolution 465: deplores Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist its settlements program.
Resolution 467: strongly deplores Israel's military intervention in Lebanon.
Resolution 468: calls on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return.
Resolution 469: strongly deplores Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians.
Resolution 471: expresses deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 476: reiterates that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are null and void.
Resolution 478: censures (Israel) in the strongest terms for its claim to Jerusalem in its Basic Law.
Resolution 484: declares it imperative that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors.
Resolution 487: strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.
Resolution 497: decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights
is null and void and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.
Resolution 498: calls on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.
Resolution 501: calls on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.
Resolution 509: demands that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon.
Resolution 515: demands that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in.
Resolution 517: censures Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Resolution 518: demands that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon.
Resolution 520: condemns Israel's attack into West Beirut.
Resolution 573: condemns Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.
Resolution 587: takes note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw.
Resolution 592: strongly deplores the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.
Resolution 605: strongly deplores Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
Resolution 607: calls on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Resolution 608: deeply regrets that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 636: deeply regrets Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
Resolution 641: deplores Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 672: condemns Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram Al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
Resolution 673: deplores Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
Resolution 681: deplores Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 694: deplores Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
Resolution 726: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
Resolution 799: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.
Without boring you with the facts which seem so obvious for those who actually read up on the matter than rely on a guy who looks thing sup on wikipedia out of all the things.
Firstly the International law is very clear on two basic principles: the acquisition of territory by war and the prohibition of the transfer of civilians of the occupying Power to the occupied territory. Both are intended to prevent the colonisation of occupied territories. Both complement another explicit principle of international law, namely the right of peoples to self-determination, a right that a colonial or occupying Power is obliged to respect.
The Israeli occupation has clearly violated all three of these principles of international law. In fact, throughout its prolonged occupation, Israel has persistently and aggressively breached international law as I showed above.
Thus, what makes the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land illegal is not the fact that it occurred during the war of 1967 (regardless of the narrative concerning the causes of the war). What makes the Israeli occupation illegal is that it has existed for 35 years, during which time it transformed into a form of colonialism and suppressed and oppressed an entire people for decades, preventing them from the exercise of their right to self-determination and the establishment of their State, Palestine.
I think that answers my points regarding the occupation and how ISRAEL is not a democratic country yet it recieves the most AID in the world most notably from the U.S.
I'm sorry paul, but I'm not going to repeat each time the SAME point I've been saying over and over game....Rami,Nawaf,Hambon and even me have explained and talked alot about this Issue, he can look pages back and check(Not only in this thread though). How can you convince someone when his minded is washed up from the media thinking Islam is all about Terror and bombing when he can't look into the other side???
How can you convince somebody when you're talking about the Pales-Israeli thing and always bring to you the Islam topic when It has nothing to do or related to what we're talking here.
I can look like chicken with broken legs here yet I'm tired explaining the same point when at the end of the day all what he'll get that Islam=TNT. a shame if you ask me.
and to answer your last question. Sure I can handle and I trust my knowledge and I'm willing to debate over and over again... but with someone who doesn't keep stating unfact things when infact he knows nothing about Islam word.
The exploiting situation? wrong I have even stated earliar that the UN recognises this and has made several resolutions to this but ignored.
Moving on ""does not bomb anybody to make em feel better"
There are so many facts out there.. which need to be looked at deeply before point the finger at the palestinians.. dont believe your local news.. why? ill tell you in my next post. It doesnt take a genious to figure out whose been more than the two parties but read the following report from amnesty international..
http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/isr-summary-eng
It clearly shows that israel are going out there and killing palestinians for no reason infact there are cases where they have attacked pregnant women , split open their womb and kill children who throw stones.. now if that isnt killing for the sake of making them feel better i dont know what is.
You dont believe me? okay fair enough heres a newspaper article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1697825,00.html
This is not certainly a one of case, if you require more proove of indencensy then I am more than happy to reply.
Moving on ""does not bomb anybody to make em feel better"
There are so many facts out there.. which need to be looked at deeply before point the finger at the palestinians.. dont believe your local news.. why? ill tell you in my next post. It doesnt take a genious to figure out whose been more than the two parties but read the following report from amnesty international..
http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/isr-summary-eng
It clearly shows that israel are going out there and killing palestinians for no reason infact there are cases where they have attacked pregnant women , split open their womb and kill children who throw stones.. now if that isnt killing for the sake of making them feel better i dont know what is.
You dont believe me? okay fair enough heres a newspaper article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1697825,00.html
This is not certainly a one of case, if you require more proove of indencensy then I am more than happy to reply.
You could face some trouble in the fossil fuel department when your group of enemies grows significantly; but that can be solved through nuclear power and other developments (be it a financial burden stretched over several years). And Europe and the USA together could be completely self-sufficient fast enough if the need was there. I don't see how a large group of enemies could even remotely damage the status and power of the USA (clearly a completely downfall is complete nonsense).
More likely; that would cause the downfall of the rest of the earth. All that would do is definitely wake up a sleeping giant. And when the USA has been hit by ABC-weapons on a large scale; what's to prevent the leader of the nation from replying in the same manner towards a large group of nations *we know* support terrorism? Hell, even France would consider passing you some nukes if you asked. Such a large-scale attack would immediately unite NATO and as it stands; there is no force on earth greater than that of a united North Atlantic Treaty Organisation.
That's the likely case scenario, anyway. If terrorists ever grow enough brains to attack the US and make it look like Europe or Russia had something to do with it (absurd scenario but nevertheless possible I suppose), then we'd all be in trouble.
More likely; that would cause the downfall of the rest of the earth. All that would do is definitely wake up a sleeping giant. And when the USA has been hit by ABC-weapons on a large scale; what's to prevent the leader of the nation from replying in the same manner towards a large group of nations *we know* support terrorism? Hell, even France would consider passing you some nukes if you asked. Such a large-scale attack would immediately unite NATO and as it stands; there is no force on earth greater than that of a united North Atlantic Treaty Organisation.
That's the likely case scenario, anyway. If terrorists ever grow enough brains to attack the US and make it look like Europe or Russia had something to do with it (absurd scenario but nevertheless possible I suppose), then we'd all be in trouble.
Nice.. explain to me or support your views about israel being a democratic country.
Yes france aint a democracy and equally enough they are treated in the same way as a democractic country we musnt forget they having enough problems in their own country as it is.. notably students, racial discrimination. When a country like palestine makes an attempt to bring up democracy by having elections its funny how nobody praises that infact instead they go and look at the evnetual winner. Hamas yes are clearly openly against the occupation of israel and the use of violence but that is clearly not their fault they are opposing something to an extent to which nobody has even helped them with. The UN has called resolutions time and time again, sometimes over illegal killings an genocides, sometimes over arrests and sometimes over the taking of occupation with their bulldozers. Yet ironically as I have said they are regarded more as a democratic country than palestine, despite the latter having problems themselves most notably being poor. If the U.S wants to spread democracy than its their right to support the nations that want to bring in democracy. Hamas are willing to sit on the table and discuss many times in the past they have even done ceasefire to which it was israel who has sparked in the opposite direction and claimed so and so fired rocket missles. Yet their claims were never question because they are a "democractic" country they must obviously be speaking the truth.. but obviously not the press didnt go further into these claims.. and as I said earliar I will proove my point as to why they didnt.
Racial discrimination in france has not been spoken out to which is a sad thing especially the U.S being the world police and starting and most notably want to bring up democracy in iraq. As for problems within U.S and democracy themselves? well thats another matter and hopefully with enough time I will show you the flaws within democracy itself.
Sure of course they dont they dont exactly make enough oil now do they? what use would that be for the U.S and the leaders of democracy.. thats a great point
I wont even talk about the IRA, Sinn Fein e.t.c.. dont want the irish to get pissed off now do we
Ill talk about the later on but just to show on more recent ground..
here are some facts from the information from the Health, Development and Information Policy (HDIP)
1870 367,224 (98% Palestinians) - 7,000 (2% Jews) Small native Jewish population; others from Europe started immigrating in the 1880s
1912 525,000 (93% Palestinians) - 40,000 (6% Jews) Prior to Balfour declaration
1925 598,000 (83% Palestinians) - 120,000 (17% Jews) Mass increase in Jewish immigrants entering Palestine
1946 1,237,000 (65% Palestinians) - 608,000 (35% Jews) Just before partition plan
Moving on to whose the land was rightly, yes the canaanites were there originally but during 1300 years ago the muslim presence became predominantly there, they took over filastin thanks to a conversion in which there was lots of mercy and compassion in victory. The people of jerusalem handed over the city to the dominant muslim population. The christians and jews at that time made only one condition, That the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with the Khalif 'Umar in person. 'Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their goods. Those who wanted to stay were guarantee protection for their lives, their property and places of worship. The Muslim rulers did not force their religion on the Palestinians, the remaining Christians and Jews were considered People of the Book. They were allowed autonomous control in their communities and guaranteed security and freedom of worship. Such tolerance was rare in the history of religion . Most Palestinians also adopted Arabic and Islamic culture. Palestine benefited from the empires trade and from its religious significance during the first Muslim dynasty, the Umayyads of Damascus. I hope that helps in my explaining of how the land was shared amongst muslims jews and christians and the fact that it was ruled by muslims at a time when all parties were happy.
Please dont bring up information to thatw hich you may not know about it just complicates matters.. Oslo accord. Israel broke the article two and three, infact it didnt even make an effort to live on its accord. Whilst the PLO made sure it atleast made some effort in making up with the articles most notably Article 18, 4 and Article 6.
wrong, I have already prooven that in my previous post.
As for the note of acting apartheid below is an article from israels main newspaper the haaretz which shows that racism is very common amongst the israelis.
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/p...2&subContrassID=4&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
Yes france aint a democracy and equally enough they are treated in the same way as a democractic country we musnt forget they having enough problems in their own country as it is.. notably students, racial discrimination. When a country like palestine makes an attempt to bring up democracy by having elections its funny how nobody praises that infact instead they go and look at the evnetual winner. Hamas yes are clearly openly against the occupation of israel and the use of violence but that is clearly not their fault they are opposing something to an extent to which nobody has even helped them with. The UN has called resolutions time and time again, sometimes over illegal killings an genocides, sometimes over arrests and sometimes over the taking of occupation with their bulldozers. Yet ironically as I have said they are regarded more as a democratic country than palestine, despite the latter having problems themselves most notably being poor. If the U.S wants to spread democracy than its their right to support the nations that want to bring in democracy. Hamas are willing to sit on the table and discuss many times in the past they have even done ceasefire to which it was israel who has sparked in the opposite direction and claimed so and so fired rocket missles. Yet their claims were never question because they are a "democractic" country they must obviously be speaking the truth.. but obviously not the press didnt go further into these claims.. and as I said earliar I will proove my point as to why they didnt.
Racial discrimination in france has not been spoken out to which is a sad thing especially the U.S being the world police and starting and most notably want to bring up democracy in iraq. As for problems within U.S and democracy themselves? well thats another matter and hopefully with enough time I will show you the flaws within democracy itself.
Sure of course they dont they dont exactly make enough oil now do they? what use would that be for the U.S and the leaders of democracy.. thats a great point
I wont even talk about the IRA, Sinn Fein e.t.c.. dont want the irish to get pissed off now do we
Ill talk about the later on but just to show on more recent ground..
here are some facts from the information from the Health, Development and Information Policy (HDIP)
1870 367,224 (98% Palestinians) - 7,000 (2% Jews) Small native Jewish population; others from Europe started immigrating in the 1880s
1912 525,000 (93% Palestinians) - 40,000 (6% Jews) Prior to Balfour declaration
1925 598,000 (83% Palestinians) - 120,000 (17% Jews) Mass increase in Jewish immigrants entering Palestine
1946 1,237,000 (65% Palestinians) - 608,000 (35% Jews) Just before partition plan
Moving on to whose the land was rightly, yes the canaanites were there originally but during 1300 years ago the muslim presence became predominantly there, they took over filastin thanks to a conversion in which there was lots of mercy and compassion in victory. The people of jerusalem handed over the city to the dominant muslim population. The christians and jews at that time made only one condition, That the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with the Khalif 'Umar in person. 'Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their goods. Those who wanted to stay were guarantee protection for their lives, their property and places of worship. The Muslim rulers did not force their religion on the Palestinians, the remaining Christians and Jews were considered People of the Book. They were allowed autonomous control in their communities and guaranteed security and freedom of worship. Such tolerance was rare in the history of religion . Most Palestinians also adopted Arabic and Islamic culture. Palestine benefited from the empires trade and from its religious significance during the first Muslim dynasty, the Umayyads of Damascus. I hope that helps in my explaining of how the land was shared amongst muslims jews and christians and the fact that it was ruled by muslims at a time when all parties were happy.
Please dont bring up information to thatw hich you may not know about it just complicates matters.. Oslo accord. Israel broke the article two and three, infact it didnt even make an effort to live on its accord. Whilst the PLO made sure it atleast made some effort in making up with the articles most notably Article 18, 4 and Article 6.
wrong, I have already prooven that in my previous post.
As for the note of acting apartheid below is an article from israels main newspaper the haaretz which shows that racism is very common amongst the israelis.
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/p...2&subContrassID=4&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
Finally as promised here comes the "media" section. As it seems all those who are never gonna believe anything are always gonna believe CNN, Fox news e.t.c simply because they are more assecible and rightly so they are the richest media organisations owned of course by some of the richest people in the word.
Firstly I would like to point out that if you look back a few or more decades ago or maybe more, there were dozens of news organisations all owned by different people gradually all of these companies were bought out by the same men and now we see only 5 or 6 organisations which actually present the media to us..
dont believe me? see the following links.
http://www.freepress.net/content/ownership
http://www.nowfoundation.org/issues/communications/tv/mediacontrol.html
Even the independent organisation FAIR recognises this..
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=7&issue_area_id=6
So moving on.. who actually owns these institues? Afterall they can be all biased can they?
Well without going too far back heres some info..
That most of the owners of these organisations were actually former Senators or Representatives in the House such as William Cohen (Viacom). Board members served at the
FCC such as William Kennard (New York Times) and Dennis FitzSimmons
(Tribune Company) showing revolving door relationships with big media
andU.S. government officials. Now is it a mere conspiracy that they only what information to be passed down to what they believe will be politicaly right for their nation and not forgetting the zionists who run half of america. If your in denial that zionists dont run most part of america? then your insane.
GE - Jeffrey R. Immelt although not prooven fully to be a a jewish he is part of the jewish foundation Institute in Oregon. Also Immelt has made several donations to the Republican Party and various committees of the party. According to the same documents see..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_R._Immelt
Time Warner - Geral Levin A jew.. need a i say more read article below
Time Warner. The largest media conglomerate today is Time Warner (briefly called AOL-Time Warner; the AOL was dropped from the name when accounting practices at the AOL division were questioned by government investigators), which reached its current form when America Online bought Time Warner for $160 billion in 2000. The combined company had revenue of $39.5 billion in 2003. The merger brought together Steve Case, a Gentile, as chairman of AOL-Time Warner, and Gerald Levin, a Jew, as the CEO. Warner, founded by the Jewish Warner brothers in the early part of the last century, rapidly became part of the Jewish power base in Hollywood, a fact so well-known that it is openly admitted by Jewish authors, as is the fact that each new media acquisition becomes dominated by Jews in turn: Speaking of the initial merger of Time, Inc. with Warner, Jewish writer Michael Wolff said in New York magazine in 2001 "since Time Inc.'s merger with Warner ten years ago, one of the interesting transitions is that it has become a Jewish company." ("From AOL to W," New York magazine, January 29, 2001)
Disney. The second-largest media conglomerate today, with 2003 revenues of $27.1 billion, is the Walt Disney Company. Its leading personality and CEO, Michael Eisner, is a Jew. see ians favourite site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Eisner. His succesor ian pilgar is also a jewish he was formerly the head of ABC news channel.
Viacom. Number three on the list, with 2003 revenues of just over $26.5 billion, is Viacom, Inc., headed by Sumner Redstone (born Murray Rothstein), a Jew. Melvin A. Karmazin, another Jew, was number two at Viacom until June 2004, holding the positions of president and chief operating officer.
Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation owns Fox Television Network, Fox News, the FX Channel, 20th Century Fox Films, Fox 2000, and publisher Harper Collins. News Corp. is the fifth largest megamedia corporation in the nation, with 2003 revenues of approximately $19.2 billion. One of ruperts sayings from wikipedia is..
"The greatest thing to come out of this [war in Iraq] for the world economy...would be $20 a barrel for oil. That's bigger than any tax cut in any country." This obviously shows he is driven by greed.
Historian David Irving has published information from a claimed high-level media source who says that Murdoch's mother, Elisabeth Joy Greene, was Jewish. As for his dad it remains unknown. However his second inline Paul chernin is a jew.
Source: http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=4231
Although I proberly will hear from the usual suspects " Give me more, give me more this proove is insufficient".. the only thing I can say is that.. im trying to find a the secret profile of some of the richest people in the world.. its not as easy as said.
Anyway I hope my points above show some understanding of why the media is biased.. there are prolly many reasons more but thats all I have time for.
Firstly I would like to point out that if you look back a few or more decades ago or maybe more, there were dozens of news organisations all owned by different people gradually all of these companies were bought out by the same men and now we see only 5 or 6 organisations which actually present the media to us..
dont believe me? see the following links.
http://www.freepress.net/content/ownership
http://www.nowfoundation.org/issues/communications/tv/mediacontrol.html
Even the independent organisation FAIR recognises this..
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=7&issue_area_id=6
So moving on.. who actually owns these institues? Afterall they can be all biased can they?
Well without going too far back heres some info..
That most of the owners of these organisations were actually former Senators or Representatives in the House such as William Cohen (Viacom). Board members served at the
FCC such as William Kennard (New York Times) and Dennis FitzSimmons
(Tribune Company) showing revolving door relationships with big media
andU.S. government officials. Now is it a mere conspiracy that they only what information to be passed down to what they believe will be politicaly right for their nation and not forgetting the zionists who run half of america. If your in denial that zionists dont run most part of america? then your insane.
GE - Jeffrey R. Immelt although not prooven fully to be a a jewish he is part of the jewish foundation Institute in Oregon. Also Immelt has made several donations to the Republican Party and various committees of the party. According to the same documents see..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_R._Immelt
Time Warner - Geral Levin A jew.. need a i say more read article below
Time Warner. The largest media conglomerate today is Time Warner (briefly called AOL-Time Warner; the AOL was dropped from the name when accounting practices at the AOL division were questioned by government investigators), which reached its current form when America Online bought Time Warner for $160 billion in 2000. The combined company had revenue of $39.5 billion in 2003. The merger brought together Steve Case, a Gentile, as chairman of AOL-Time Warner, and Gerald Levin, a Jew, as the CEO. Warner, founded by the Jewish Warner brothers in the early part of the last century, rapidly became part of the Jewish power base in Hollywood, a fact so well-known that it is openly admitted by Jewish authors, as is the fact that each new media acquisition becomes dominated by Jews in turn: Speaking of the initial merger of Time, Inc. with Warner, Jewish writer Michael Wolff said in New York magazine in 2001 "since Time Inc.'s merger with Warner ten years ago, one of the interesting transitions is that it has become a Jewish company." ("From AOL to W," New York magazine, January 29, 2001)
Disney. The second-largest media conglomerate today, with 2003 revenues of $27.1 billion, is the Walt Disney Company. Its leading personality and CEO, Michael Eisner, is a Jew. see ians favourite site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Eisner. His succesor ian pilgar is also a jewish he was formerly the head of ABC news channel.
Viacom. Number three on the list, with 2003 revenues of just over $26.5 billion, is Viacom, Inc., headed by Sumner Redstone (born Murray Rothstein), a Jew. Melvin A. Karmazin, another Jew, was number two at Viacom until June 2004, holding the positions of president and chief operating officer.
Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation owns Fox Television Network, Fox News, the FX Channel, 20th Century Fox Films, Fox 2000, and publisher Harper Collins. News Corp. is the fifth largest megamedia corporation in the nation, with 2003 revenues of approximately $19.2 billion. One of ruperts sayings from wikipedia is..
"The greatest thing to come out of this [war in Iraq] for the world economy...would be $20 a barrel for oil. That's bigger than any tax cut in any country." This obviously shows he is driven by greed.
Historian David Irving has published information from a claimed high-level media source who says that Murdoch's mother, Elisabeth Joy Greene, was Jewish. As for his dad it remains unknown. However his second inline Paul chernin is a jew.
Source: http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=4231
Although I proberly will hear from the usual suspects " Give me more, give me more this proove is insufficient".. the only thing I can say is that.. im trying to find a the secret profile of some of the richest people in the world.. its not as easy as said.
Anyway I hope my points above show some understanding of why the media is biased.. there are prolly many reasons more but thats all I have time for.
- Status