World Cup 2018 LIVE thread (44 Viewers)

X Æ A-12

Senior Member
Contributor
Sep 4, 2006
87,971
That's not even a yellow for me.

Iran player leans on him and Ronaldo pushes him away, but that's not an active elbow to the head.
Nah it absolutely is a card and probably a red too imo.

Iranian player does lean into him, in no way does that justify Ronaldo very intentionally elbowing him in the face. Doesn't matter at all a what an opposing player does, you aren't entitled to retaliate physically.

Its not particularly violent and I don't think in general that should be a red but the reason i think it is a red here is because if you reverse the players, some Iranian elbows Ronaldo in the face, it is a red 100% of the time. Reds are given for that and if that is the standard then Ronaldo being Ronaldo should not put him above that standard.
 

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AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
31,813
In the center of Asia? Just a guess.



When I am in the stands.



It's the kind of monkey shit that says sports is too often a video game played for TV viewers. Not for reality. Not for something that doesn't involve several cathode ray tubes, a mobile video processing unit, a satellite or two, and a couple of talking heads between them and the action. Because we all know the latter is far more real and true than actually being at an event.

Just like friends through Facebook on mobile phone screens are more real and true than actually having to talk to someone in real life.
Why do you keep saying reality? Why would viewing something on tv or being replayed from a different angle make it not real?

To some people in the stadium this probably looked like a sure goal, but it wasn't to others. So what is the reality then?

 

Ronn

Senior Member
May 3, 2012
20,899
It's not a push at all, he hits the player and he uses force. I know it's not a De Rossi level elbow, but if elbowing is a red card offense, Ronaldo got away with it only because he's Ronaldo.
Maybe I feel a little bit guilty about that Ka'bi Figo incident :D
 

X Æ A-12

Senior Member
Contributor
Sep 4, 2006
87,971
It's not a push at all, he hits the player and he uses force. I know it's not a De Rossi level elbow, but if elbowing is a red card offense, Ronaldo got away with it only because he's Ronaldo.
This. A standard has been established and when it applies elsewhere then it should apply to Ronaldo as well.
 

Ronn

Senior Member
May 3, 2012
20,899
This. A standard has been established and when it applies elsewhere then it should apply to Ronaldo as well.
Football rules are vague. I still am not sure what constitutes as a handball penalty. Also how hard someone should be pushed to get a foul.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
The naïveté of thinking superstars in any sport would be refereed with the same standards as the Sturaros. :hihi:

Quite obvious that sort of minor thing is never going to be a red for Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Suarez, and a host of other superstars.
 

X Æ A-12

Senior Member
Contributor
Sep 4, 2006
87,971
The naïveté of thinking superstars in any sport would be refereed with the same standards as the Sturaros. :hihi:

Quite obvious that sort of minor thing is never going to be a red for Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Suarez, and a host of other superstars.
I get that but I still am not going to agree with it like some Barca loving sap.

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Football rules are vague. I still am not sure what constitutes as a handball penalty. Also how hard someone should be pushed to get a foul.
An intentional elbow to the face is less vague than those other two examples.
 
May 23, 2013
4,312
The naïveté of thinking superstars in any sport would be refereed with the same standards as the Sturaros. :hihi:

Quite obvious that sort of minor thing is never going to be a red for Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Suarez, and a host of other superstars.
Oh come on that’s a red for both Neymar and Suarez.
Only Messi and Ronaldo unless doing something super crazy are protected from reds on the big stage.
Ronaldo has literally given Godin a three piece without a red card and Messi has done some stupid shit to Maicon before also without a red.

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Neymar has kicked A ball at a players back and gotten a straight red at the copa lmao.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
I get that but I still am not going to agree with it like some Barca loving sap.

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An intentional elbow to the face is less vague than those other two examples.
I honestly have no idea how any one is calling that an intentional elbow to the face. The player leans into him, he moves his arm to the far side, the arm is not particularly bent, his elbow not cocked or anything, and basically brushes him aside with the back of his arm and elbow. But there is no arm bent, pointed and swung elbow into the guy's face. Unless there is a better view than that posted in the video above I have no idea how anyone calls that an intentional and malicious elbow to the face. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see it.

And no, Afghan, Neymar and Suarez do not get a red for that. It's hardly a yellow imo. Shit like that happens almost every time there is physical contact of that sort between two players.

I've seen Ronaldo get away with red card worthy shit before, but this was certainly not one of those cases imo. The dude has a temper and he's received straight reds and multiple match bans in la liga a few times. And has deserved them every time. But not for this minor incident.
 

Alin

FINO ALLA FINE!
Jul 27, 2015
6,390
I honestly have no idea how any one is calling that an intentional elbow to the face. The player leans into him, he moves his arm to the far side, the arm is not particularly bent, his elbow not $#@!ed or anything, and basically brushes him aside with the back of his arm and elbow. But there is no arm bent, pointed and swung elbow into the guy's face. Unless there is a better view than that posted in the video above I have no idea how anyone calls that an intentional and malicious elbow to the face. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see it.

And no, Afghan, Neymar and Suarez do not get a red for that. It's hardly a yellow imo. $#@! like that happens almost every time there is physical contact of that sort between two players.

I've seen Ronaldo get away with red card worthy $#@! before, but this was certainly not one of those cases imo. The dude has a temper and he's received straight reds and multiple match bans in la liga a few times. And has deserved them every time. But not for this minor incident.
I have to totally agree with you on this tbf. :tup:
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,346
In the center of Asia? Just a guess.



When I am in the stands.



It's the kind of monkey shit that says sports is too often a video game played for TV viewers. Not for reality. Not for something that doesn't involve several cathode ray tubes, a mobile video processing unit, a satellite or two, and a couple of talking heads between them and the action. Because we all know the latter is far more real and true than actually being at an event.

Just like friends through Facebook on mobile phone screens are more real and true than actually having to talk to someone in real life.
You're consistently forgetting that VAR gives the ref the best of both worlds. He gets to see all angles while he also sees things from the pitch. It's just an aide.

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swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,785
That's not even a yellow for me.

Iran player leans on him and Ronaldo pushes him away, but that's not an active elbow to the head.
I've refrained from passing judgement because while I have ambivalent feelings about Ronaldo (I am a juventino, after all), I am clearly a fan of Portugal.

So I've questioned what I thought I saw. I tried to see an elbow. I did not. To see one there would have been extremely harsh, IMO. I saw two players banging into each other to gain advantage. One blocking the other to even the extent he leaned back into Ronaldo to interfere with him. And I saw a Ronaldo who was irritated -- but not petulant and pissy Ronaldo, which is different and always worth a red card -- and used his arms to reach around a player backing into him so he could attempt to get to the ball around him. Not so much to throw an elbow to cause physical harm, not so much an attempt to strike the player's head, it was more like a shove to get a guy coming at him out of the way.

But Hoori is right. The ref should have given a red or nothing, not some half-assed yellow that makes no sense. He hedged. I thought it was nothing.

@king Ale is right though, it's either nothing (which it is for me), or it's an elbow to the head, in that case it's a red. The yellow the ref gave seems kinda half assed.

My guess is he either thought it was nothing, but didn't want to give the impression to favour Ronaldo, so gave a yellow, or he thought it was a red, but didn't have he balls to send him off. Something like that.
That was my guess too.

Meh I still don't see that as much an argument against the necessity of VAR in the face of how terrible refereeing is in football and how, perhaps due to the low scoring nature of the sport, 1-2 bad referee decisions are changing the outcome of the whole tie.
The complaints of terrible refereeing in football is almost entirely from the perspective of TV viewers, and that irks me. It exalts the frame of reference of a glowing screen in a kitchen above any other perspective, and that's just wrong to me. Even if there are millions more of those perspectives, it turns over the judgement of truth at a football match into a remote viewer popularity contest like some kind of pop singer call-in reality TV show. Most people have no issue with that, but that does offend me.

Whether you like it or not VAR is coming. I understand that it does interrupt the flow of the game but so does any kind of extended stoppage and there are already plenty of those in football. Like I already mentioned, i'm pretty sure it isn't just television viewers who want this like you tried to frame it. I have heard almost no opposition to VAR from actual professional players, coaches, refs etc...if anything its the "fat slobs" watching on tv or former players that bitch about everything not being the same as when they played 30 years ago :rolleyes: The game evolves, fast too. Might as well get used to it.
A good point you make here is the players. But when I read quotes from the Serie A players last season, I'm not so sure the verdict was positive. I mean there's the issue of Italian referee bias that has cost Juve so dearly - so in that sense that's where VAR is practically required because the credibility of the sport is held more in a conspiratory regard rather than one of human accident or natural observational error.

Maaaaan we were so close :cry:
It was one of the weirdest things. Note that before the match I had picked Portugal and Iran to draw 1-1 -- I expected Portugal to do the lazy thing and just enough to go through second to Spain. But seeing the Iran fans at the stadium, knowing what a big deal it was for the women in Iran to attend stadium matches, I could palpably sense how much even just getting a goal would mean to them. Given that even their only goal thus far was effectively scored by Morocco. And knowing Portugal would still go through on a draw, I was actually kind of rooting for Iran to score the penalty. It was weird.

But don't kid yourself, Hoori. Iran was really never in this match. I'm not saying that as some kind of value judgement or diss. Just that the outcome was really in little doubt throughout. And even the wackiness in the end would have been a complete fluke if somehow that could have been on goal and Patricio would have missed that. It wasn't as nearly as close of a chance as I think the nation wanted to believe.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
The naïveté of thinking superstars in any sport would be refereed with the same standards as the Sturaros. :hihi:

Quite obvious that sort of minor thing is never going to be a red for Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Suarez, and a host of other superstars.
:tup:

Also while I agree that is the unfortunate reality. I too didn't think it was a red for Ronaldo. Maybe he moved his elbow, but he barely touched the Iranian player, that would have been an extremely harsh red card if it was given.

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Maaaaan we were so close :cry:
Iran did themselves proud; such great performances. With these performances in almost any other group Iran would have been through. That last minute chance going in would have been poetic :cry:
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,785
You're consistently forgetting that VAR gives the ref the best of both worlds. He gets to see all angles while he also sees things from the pitch. It's just an aide.

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True, true. But football has now created a culture where people are encouraged not to believe their eyes in favor of what they see on camera. The whole frame of reference of experience the match has been shifted.

A lot of VAR calls are going to still be ambiguous and requiring fallible human judgement. Just now the standard of officiating - and how officials will be judged for correctness - has been shifted from their eyes to appeasing popular opinion of those watching on TV with slow motion replays, etc. Which isn't reality, but we trick ourselves in believing it is.
 

DAiDEViL

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2015
64,716
An intentional elbow to the face is less vague than those other two examples.
True. But it wasn't an intentional elbow to the face.

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I've refrained from passing judgement because while I have ambivalent feelings about Ronaldo (I am a juventino, after all), I am clearly a fan of Portugal.

So I've questioned what I thought I saw. I tried to see an elbow. I did not. To see one there would have been extremely harsh, IMO. I saw two players banging into each other to gain advantage. One blocking the other to even the extent he leaned back into Ronaldo to interfere with him. And I saw a Ronaldo who was irritated -- but not petulant and pissy Ronaldo, which is different and always worth a red card -- and used his arms to reach around a player backing into him so he could attempt to get to the ball around him. Not so much to throw an elbow to cause physical harm, not so much an attempt to strike the player's head, it was more like a shove to get a guy coming at him out of the way.

But Hoori is right. The ref should have given a red or nothing, not some half-assed yellow that makes no sense. He hedged. I thought it was nothing
.
:tup:
 

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