Winter mercato thread 2016-17 (41 Viewers)
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I can see that a common truth these days is we lack "muscles" in the midfield.
Bayern's midfield against Dortmund: Kimmich-Xabi Alonso-Alcantara. All that pace and strength.
Real's midfield against Sporting Gijon: Modric-Kovacic-James. All that pace and strength, wow!
Barcelona's midfield against Sociedad: Gomes-Busquets-Rakitic. Such pace and strength, wow!
Now go ahead and tell me Khedira-Marchisio-Pjanic is less mobile and defensively less aware or generally worse than those mentioned above. Stop acting like you're all some experts because none of actual experts in the media is blaming our midfield for "poor" form. Maybe the combination of Sami, Marchi and Pjanic isn't as good as Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio and Pogba but our front and back line are much better these days. So stop bitching that Juventus is doomed and gloomed this season because you know shit.
Bayern's midfield against Dortmund: Kimmich-Xabi Alonso-Alcantara. All that pace and strength.
Real's midfield against Sporting Gijon: Modric-Kovacic-James. All that pace and strength, wow!
Barcelona's midfield against Sociedad: Gomes-Busquets-Rakitic. Such pace and strength, wow!
Now go ahead and tell me Khedira-Marchisio-Pjanic is less mobile and defensively less aware or generally worse than those mentioned above. Stop acting like you're all some experts because none of actual experts in the media is blaming our midfield for "poor" form. Maybe the combination of Sami, Marchi and Pjanic isn't as good as Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio and Pogba but our front and back line are much better these days. So stop bitching that Juventus is doomed and gloomed this season because you know shit.
Bayerns midfield were dominated vs Dortmund and lost, Sociedad drew Barca and Real could play Casilla in midfield and still beat Gijon.
FYI Busquets is fantastic defensively, Gomes towering presence and has stellar combination of power and agility, Rakitic hardworking for creative player (like twice more then Pjanic easily). It works in their system to have such type of players (tho midfield is their weak point now), while ours clearly required dynamic midfields who stretches things and cover lots of ground, and comfortable in both phases easily. Vidal and Pogba could go to wingback, near our box, opponents box off and on the ball in strong fashion. Current midfield cant handle even a fraction of what they did, its a mismatch, its clear to see and it heavily effects our gameplan. Its about balance, our entire midfield doesnt need to have towering physical presence or work rate, but ATLEAST ONE should have it, with both Pjanic and Khedira it leaves a huge hole, and it hasnt helped we missed Marchisio for majority of the season and in his place is a turtle like Hernanes, it litterally screams come at me.
Regarding Real, Zidane actually handles their tactical short comings in midfield well enough, both Kroos and Casemiro out for a long time, and he sets up the team in fairly safe and conservative way that makes sure midfield is assisted by backline alot, plus Bale/Vazquez dropped down to make it 4 man midfields. Modric works hard (genius perfect midfielder, wish we had him), and Kovacic isnt a slouch who plays it very unrisky (barely goes forward much), its only James who is at any given moment a liability off the ball, but vs likes of Gijon it can be tried, but vs bigger opposition wouldnt play as CM, more Isco or Vazquez. Also their midfield just has too much quality technically to mess with, something we cant say.
And its not only about work rate and physical presence, but we lost alot of skill and X factor too, both technically and in leading the team. Those teams you mentionned still have that. Ours besides being physically weak is recovering from losing tangible quality in both directions, the safety of having someone who could get the ball and just shrug off opponents and move it forward to break patterns has been missed alot, as much as the physical presence and stronger defensive capability that ensured we won back possession quickly in last couple seasons (this quality is super underrated, because how often do you see our current midfield get to the 2nd balls first?). We are so passive now in middle park its litterally insane to not see it as an issue.
It remains to be seen if he will become good enough, but it makes perfect sense we interested in Kessie, exactly the type of elements we need (besides being technically clumsy player), he both is so freakishly determined that he sniffs out and gets possession ball in any way he can, but also strong enough in his stride that he can defenitely just shrug off opponents like a bull (only 10 days ago he dominated Strootman and Nainggolan like they didnt exist) and take possession forward:
He is kinda akward but generally forces his way through forward or is stuck on opponents like a bad rash when getting back possession.
FYI Busquets is fantastic defensively, Gomes towering presence and has stellar combination of power and agility, Rakitic hardworking for creative player (like twice more then Pjanic easily). It works in their system to have such type of players (tho midfield is their weak point now), while ours clearly required dynamic midfields who stretches things and cover lots of ground, and comfortable in both phases easily. Vidal and Pogba could go to wingback, near our box, opponents box off and on the ball in strong fashion. Current midfield cant handle even a fraction of what they did, its a mismatch, its clear to see and it heavily effects our gameplan. Its about balance, our entire midfield doesnt need to have towering physical presence or work rate, but ATLEAST ONE should have it, with both Pjanic and Khedira it leaves a huge hole, and it hasnt helped we missed Marchisio for majority of the season and in his place is a turtle like Hernanes, it litterally screams come at me.
Regarding Real, Zidane actually handles their tactical short comings in midfield well enough, both Kroos and Casemiro out for a long time, and he sets up the team in fairly safe and conservative way that makes sure midfield is assisted by backline alot, plus Bale/Vazquez dropped down to make it 4 man midfields. Modric works hard (genius perfect midfielder, wish we had him), and Kovacic isnt a slouch who plays it very unrisky (barely goes forward much), its only James who is at any given moment a liability off the ball, but vs likes of Gijon it can be tried, but vs bigger opposition wouldnt play as CM, more Isco or Vazquez. Also their midfield just has too much quality technically to mess with, something we cant say.
And its not only about work rate and physical presence, but we lost alot of skill and X factor too, both technically and in leading the team. Those teams you mentionned still have that. Ours besides being physically weak is recovering from losing tangible quality in both directions, the safety of having someone who could get the ball and just shrug off opponents and move it forward to break patterns has been missed alot, as much as the physical presence and stronger defensive capability that ensured we won back possession quickly in last couple seasons (this quality is super underrated, because how often do you see our current midfield get to the 2nd balls first?). We are so passive now in middle park its litterally insane to not see it as an issue.
It remains to be seen if he will become good enough, but it makes perfect sense we interested in Kessie, exactly the type of elements we need (besides being technically clumsy player), he both is so freakishly determined that he sniffs out and gets possession ball in any way he can, but also strong enough in his stride that he can defenitely just shrug off opponents like a bull (only 10 days ago he dominated Strootman and Nainggolan like they didnt exist) and take possession forward:
He is kinda akward but generally forces his way through forward or is stuck on opponents like a bad rash when getting back possession.
Btw Barca has huge issues in midfield right now as well, look at their recent form.
Without Iniesta, they're basically as woeful as we are right now in that department.
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He won't actually
Kessie seems much more like the type of player we'd buy, and it would be a great acquisition. As I said a week ago or sth, buy him in january and loan him out to Atalanta until summer.
Without Iniesta, they're basically as woeful as we are right now in that department.
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He won't actually
Kessie seems much more like the type of player we'd buy, and it would be a great acquisition. As I said a week ago or sth, buy him in january and loan him out to Atalanta until summer.
For those who are worried about our squads average age we went through this last summer. The older players are mostly at the back and most of them already have good replacements.
Buffon 38
Dani Alves 33 Barzagli 35 Chiellini 32 Evra 35
Can also add Lichtsteiner 32 to that list. All of these apart from Chiellini will most probably be gone in two years. That will reduce the average age (and quality
) of the team quite a bit, it will also free a lot of money on wages. There is no reason to not sign players because they are close to 30. What counts is the quality of the player.
Buffon 38
Dani Alves 33 Barzagli 35 Chiellini 32 Evra 35
Can also add Lichtsteiner 32 to that list. All of these apart from Chiellini will most probably be gone in two years. That will reduce the average age (and quality
) of the team quite a bit, it will also free a lot of money on wages. There is no reason to not sign players because they are close to 30. What counts is the quality of the player.
I brought those lineups into discussion because they were their most recent matches. I saw the game vs Dortmund and I wouldn't say Bayern was dominated, it's an overstatement. It wasn't my intention to persuade you their midfields are weak. What I meant was that ours isn't as bad as you make it to be.
You're saying that our previous midfield was stretching the game wide but now we have much better WBs than we used to have and it's no longer necessary. Bursting forward? We have Dybala going deep. And please don't say to me that he's being wasted like that because ALL quality forwards drop deep, Messi, Ibra, Lewandowski etc.
I think that once Pjanic and Higuain fully click we will be fine. That's also what Sacchi and Lippi say.
You're saying that our previous midfield was stretching the game wide but now we have much better WBs than we used to have and it's no longer necessary. Bursting forward? We have Dybala going deep. And please don't say to me that he's being wasted like that because ALL quality forwards drop deep, Messi, Ibra, Lewandowski etc.
I think that once Pjanic and Higuain fully click we will be fine. That's also what Sacchi and Lippi say.
Dortmund ran alot more then Bayern, they got their goal and didnt take risks but bayerns midfield couldnt do much (despite Dortmund playing a dumb experimental midfield of Götze and Schurrle centrally), mainly because Ancelotti's gameplan is nonexistent. And ours has been at best mediocre, and thats being kind, Khedira thinks he is a forward nowadays mostly and barely does anything off the ball (no presence whatsoever), and lacks technically to do anything besides besides passing backwards sideways. Pjanic is completely a moments player, rarely wants to see much of the ball and has no impact off the ball basically. Hernanes speaks for itself, any team who is physical and aggressive rapes him. To say its not an worrying is defenitely trying to gloss things over. Doesnt have to mean doom and gloom, but a significant concern right now.
You should listen more carefully to what Lippi said too, he didnt only say it takes them for champions to adjust (also put it down to Allegri that we are struggling kinda) but actually acknowledged well what a big loss Pogba is, and Vidal previously, and how its lacking even last season that we had Sturaro and Lemina playing so much.
You have to be kidding me with not realizing how important it is that we had dynamic midfielders, Pogba was almost left winger at times WITH ALEX SANDRO there, he stretched out opponents midifelds and made them second guess their positioning alot. Dybala comes back way too much, BECAUSE our midfield is too predictable and static this season, its not because its just something he does. But he takes on too much resonsiblity and almost becomes a midfielder, especially in opening games where he played with conservative mids who can barely pass forward or move forward.
You should listen more carefully to what Lippi said too, he didnt only say it takes them for champions to adjust (also put it down to Allegri that we are struggling kinda) but actually acknowledged well what a big loss Pogba is, and Vidal previously, and how its lacking even last season that we had Sturaro and Lemina playing so much.
You have to be kidding me with not realizing how important it is that we had dynamic midfielders, Pogba was almost left winger at times WITH ALEX SANDRO there, he stretched out opponents midifelds and made them second guess their positioning alot. Dybala comes back way too much, BECAUSE our midfield is too predictable and static this season, its not because its just something he does. But he takes on too much resonsiblity and almost becomes a midfielder, especially in opening games where he played with conservative mids who can barely pass forward or move forward.
I love Evra, one of my favorite players but his time is up. We have a world-class LB in Sandro, and for bench option we should bring in a younger player to rotate with him. Evra takes up too much of Sandro's play time imo, there's game where there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why Evra is playing ahead of a fully fit Sandro.
If his role was simply as a back up player like Lich then I wouldn't mind, but that's not the case.
If his role was simply as a back up player like Lich then I wouldn't mind, but that's not the case.
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