What's The Point of United Nations?? (8 Viewers)

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Animals can't kill?? How would they survive?


I just want to say that I love it when people in my own country die, especially from terrorist attacks.

 

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[Seven]

Unbiased? Sorry, but it's human nature to be biased. It's impossible not to be.

You're still colorizing things with the absolutes of black and white, of either total perfect success or complete failure. If those are the criteria, get used to it -- because there will always be failure.



So you're saying that the UN encourages more American rape and pillage in the world than if there was no UN at all to begin with. I see that logic... yeah, right.

Influence is inevitable -- economic or otherwise. Have you ever read Orwell's Animal Farm? Every human attempt to make matters perfectly fair and equal with others, at least all those I can think of (Communism included), have been soundly refuted with the essence of human nature to express biases. Some benefit from those biases, and others are victims of it.

We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend that it goes away by itself. Or we can at least open the dialog and lay the dead cat on the table for dissection. Once you recognize that it's human nature to never be fully impartial and treat every fellow person or society equally, then what do you do about it?

Running away from it is not an answer.

Take it down to an individual level. We could all say people have equal rights under the law, should have equal access to this or that, same pay for the same job, and everyone should be treated fairly... but the world is inevitably going to be a different place if you were gifted with the looks of a supermodel versus if you were born with a face like Antonio Cassano's hairy ass. All the whining in the world isn't going to make that inequity and bias go away. The best you can do is collectively acknowledge and try to manage it -- imperfectly as it may have to be.

All of this can be summarised in one sentence IMO.

MEN ARE NOT EQUAL!

Despite the fact they cram it down your throat since your first day of school it's not true. Men are not equal. The assumption they are however brings even more suffering into this world.

 

[JamalRice10]

This Convo/Discussion is very interesting

 

[swag]

It scares me when I agree 100% with Andries.

 

[Slagathor]

Ok, my point seems not clear until now:

The biggest joke currently is saying that there is an unbiased organization that represents the international community...

Simply, there is nobody that respect himself to be representing anybody but the colonial western countries...

Who would that be?

UN is just a lame way to justify what USA and its allies want to do in the World, and they are so useless to the degree that Their soldiers are so coward to protect the poor people in the conflict zones, and they even are accused of rapping children in 5 countries where they were assumed to be protecting the people...

Briefly, this organization doesn't make it any better in any place in the World...

Let me say in the end that I know some of those blue hats where I'm living and let me tell you what they did to know their importance:

Those mercenaries went to Croatia to protect the innocent people, but they briefed their mission when they came back by saying: "We sold our weapons to those who were fighting each other, but we can assure you that the Croatian women are so nice!!!"

You asked me what we will do without the UN??

This question is just like "How can we live without thieves??"

The UN might be incompetent thieves, but at least they attempt to stand up against murderers. You decide which one is worse.

As for international involvement in conflicts: would you rather the whole world looked away, providing Israel with a window of opportunity to wipe your people off the face of the earth? There are many people in Europe who sympathise with the Palestinian cause, in Holland that is even the majority of the population. Don't underestimate the forces of international diplomacy, it might just be the only thing that stands between you and annihilation.

Regardless of how pathetic the UN itself can be.

All of this can be summarised in one sentence IMO.

MEN ARE NOT EQUAL!

Despite the fact they cram it down your throat since your first day of school it's not true. Men are not equal. The assumption they are however brings even more suffering into this world.

Men are perfectly equal, but their circumstances aren't. There is no difference between me and a random man from Zimbabwe other than, presumably, the contents of my wallet and the opportunities to my disposal.

 

[Seven]

[/b]



Men are perfectly equal, but their circumstances aren't. There is no difference between me and a random man from Zimbabwe other than, presumably, the contents of my wallet and the opportunities to my disposal.

First of all, don't act like you're Bertolt Brecht .

Men aren't equal, but each man is of the same value as another. I don't rate an American higher than a Ghanaian. It's something entirely different than equality though. If men were equal, their circumstances would be as well. Why? Because those circumstances are mostly man made.

 

[Slagathor]

Nah, circumstances is what you end up in. You can't dictate where you were born.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Erik, I agree with you, but you are losing a battle you cannot win.

 

[Slagathor]

Am I?

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

I think so.

 

[Slagathor]

How?

 

[Seven]

Nah, circumstances is what you end up in. You can't dictate where you were born.

Man has existed for thousands of years by now. If they really were equal, the convergence between them would have been far bigger by now. One would expect them to react the same to the same problems. For example Scandinavians managed to solve their ecological problems, why didn't Africans do the same? Saying all men are equal brings up so many questions you can't answer, you just have to presume they're not.

 

[Slagathor]

Man has existed for thousands of years by now. If they really were equal, the convergence between them would have been far bigger by now. One would expect them to react the same to the same problems. For example Scandinavians managed to solve their ecological problems, why didn't Africans do the same? Saying all men are equal brings up so many questions you can't answer, you just have to presume they're not.

That's nonsense. Scandinavians solved which problems now?

Answers to questions the statement "all men are equal" are well provided for by the teachings of major sociology schools. The point is not that all men are equal, the point is that all men are born equal, as the universal declaration of human rights states.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

How?

Because some people are so set in their ways of thinking that they will never change.

 

[Seven]

That's nonsense. Scandinavians solved which problems now?

Answers to questions the statement "all men are equal" are well provided for by the teachings of major sociology schools. The point is not that all men are equal, the point is that all men are born equal, as the universal declaration of human rights states.

So how come some men are born black and some white?

I wouldn't say they're the same.

 

[Slagathor]

So how come some men are born black and some white?

I wouldn't say they're the same.

I didn't say same, I said equal. We are born equal, but from thereon we are dealt with very different cards.

Inequalities that come about later in our lives are all man-made, or culture related. A physically handicapped person suffers a disadvantage in modern Dutch society because modern Dutch society is shaped by the majority of non-physically handicapped people. That is a cultural aspect. If we were to overthrow our current society and shape it so it meets the requirements of the physically handicapped, that inequality as a concept would disappear.

Hence, all men are born equal.

 

[Seven]

I didn't say same, I said equal. We are born equal, but from thereon we are dealt with very different cards.

Inequalities that come about later in our lives are all man-made, or culture related. A physically handicapped person suffers a disadvantage in modern Dutch society because modern Dutch society is shaped by the majority of non-physically handicapped people. That is a cultural aspect. If we were to overthrow our current society and shape it so it meets the requirements of the physically handicapped, that inequality as a concept would disappear.

Hence, all men are born equal.

Equal is something different than "worth just as much" IMO. Besides, in the Dutch translation "gelijk" this is even more so. And how about 2 equals 2? In many ways "equal" is a synonym of "same".

And even if it are simply culture related inequalities, men still wouldn't be born equal. Imagine a Jew being born in Nazi Germany. In what possible way does he get the same start as a regular German kid? Like it or not, you're always born in an already existing culture.

 

[Slagathor]

Equal is something different than "worth just as much" IMO. Besides, in the Dutch translation "gelijk" this is even more so. And how about 2 equals 2? In many ways "equal" is a synonym of "same".

"Gelijk" and "Equal" aren't synonyms of "same" because the latter indicates absolute identicalness whereas the former indicate simply "of harmonious value".

And even if it are simply culture related inequalities, men still wouldn't be born equal. Imagine a Jew being born in Nazi Germany. In what possible way does he get the same start as a regular German kid? Like it or not, you're always born in an already existing culture.

I never stated men receive the same start, of course they don't. As I said: inequalities are products of cultures (they are artificial) but they are very much in existence and incidentally start to influence all of our lives mere minutes after we are born. That doesn't change the fact we are born equal.

 

[ReBeL]

[/b]

Who would that be?

That's so clear, I think...

The UN might be incompetent thieves, but at least they attempt to stand up against murderers. You decide which one is worse.

As for international involvement in conflicts: would you rather the whole world looked away, providing Israel with a window of opportunity to wipe your people off the face of the earth? There are many people in Europe who sympathise with the Palestinian cause, in Holland that is even the majority of the population. Don't underestimate the forces of international diplomacy, it might just be the only thing that stands between you and annihilation.

Regardless of how pathetic the UN itself can be.

Ok, let me ask you who the murderers you're saying that UN stood against??

And I don't want the thread to become just about how UN deals with Israel like a spoiled child, so ignore what they're doing there, because simply they don't forbid any annihilation as you claim...

 

[Ascension]

Animals can't kill?? How would they survive?

Yeah, that came out wrong. My bad.

What I meant to say is that humans are not allowed to kill neither humans or animals. And it says so in the bible: 'Do not kill'

I think I agree with Seven on this topic. Men are not equal, all men have their unique soul - an image of God. So of course, they are gonna be different.