What Are You Doing Right Now? (274 Viewers)

[Quetzalcoatl]

What?

Dude, it's the same thing in a war. You're surrounded by the people who want you dead, you go and kill them in order to protect yourself and/or your country. But you're left with traumas.

Somehow I don't think it's quite the same as war.

Though I would definitely be traumatised by killing civilians, but not other fuckers shooting at me. But probably it's just easy for me to say here without actually experiencing it.

 

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[Osman]

But probably it's just easy for me to say here without actually experiencing it.

It really is. Hopefully you wont ever need to tho.

 

[Seven]

Though I would definitely be traumatised by killing civilians, but not other fuckers shooting at me. But probably it's just easy for me to say here without actually experiencing it.

It's pretty personal. I've met clients who had trouble processing a simple barfight, when I thought they got way too much money for the injuries they sustained btw. And then I've had people who were involved in much more serious incidents, but appeared to come out of them without any trauma whatsoever.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

It really is. Hopefully you wont ever need to tho.

I still think it would be different if I kill a criminal who was coming after me though.

I have had many people close to me be victims of crime (including a murder), and the feeling I had after some of those experiences, I don't think there would be many regrets if I could rid the Earth of those demons.

 

[Enron]

Who would have trauma from killing someone who came to harm them?

Soldiers suffer from that stuff all the time.

So probably a person who hasn't been trained to deal with killing might have similar issues.

 

[Seven]

I still think it would be different if I kill a criminal who was coming after me though.

I have had many people close to me be victims of crime (including a murder), and the feeling I had after some of those experiences, I don't think there would be many regrets if I could rid the Earth of those demons.

Well, I definitely feel like experience can be a factor. I know that, as a lawyer, I've become far more ruthless than I used to be towards some people.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

It's pretty personal. I've met clients who had trouble processing a simple barfight, when I thought they got way too much money for the injuries they sustained btw. And then I've had people who were involved in much more serious incidents, but appeared to come out of them without any trauma whatsoever.

Well yeah, it would be personal for sure.

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Soldiers suffer from that stuff all the time.

So probably a person who hasn't been trained to deal with killing might have similar issues.

True, but war is different. I was referring to criminals entering your house. But I guess an intruder in Germany would be different from an intruder in Latin America.

 

[Enron]

Charge your weapon? Its not a laser gun

He means load it.

 

[Osman]

I still think it would be different if I kill a criminal who was coming after me though.

I have had many people close to me be victims of crime (including a murder), and the feeling I had after some of those experiences, I don't think there would be many regrets if I could rid the Earth of those demons.

Yeah I agree with you for the mitigating circusmtances and general self defence. But the act of killing in overall will still be quite a burden on you mentally. Not as blaming yourself or such, but it really will change you either way, atleast for most people.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Soldiers suffer from that stuff all the time.

So probably a person who hasn't been trained to deal with killing might have similar issues.

But soldiers are trained. And they still suffer from it.

 

[Ocelot]

Tbf, shellshock is less about guilt than about having lived in constant fear of death, accompanied by horrible conditions all around and the noise of war.

But yeah in general most humans experience severe psychological repurcussions killing even in the most clear-cut self defense cases.

 

[X Æ A-12]

Do you expect to have a gun just next to you, whereever you stand when there's a break in the house? What if you had to shit and you hear your glass breaking.

I'm not even kidding, but people are so silly thinking how a gun is a solution to everything and how it's just a button to press on the wall to kill the intruder.



What?

Dude, it's the same thing in a war. You're surrounded by the people who want you dead, you go and kill them in order to protect yourself and/or your country. But you're left with traumas.

Toilet gun

But seriously if i heard someone breaking in i wouldnt go after them. I would lock the door to my room and let them take whatever they want from outside the bedroom and try to just escape out my window before i ever used a gun. My bathroom has a window too. I would rather run away and lose property then use a gun.

And i think theres a difference between killing in war and someone intentionally coming after you. Most people in ww1 probably werent there by choice they were just forced into it like you would be

 

[Ocelot]

Toilet gun

But seriously if i heard someone breaking in i wouldnt go after them. I would lock the door to my room and let them take whatever they want from outside the bedroom and try to just escape out my window before i ever used a gun. My bathroom has a window too. I would rather run away and lose property then use a gun.

Yuo, same

 

[Enron]

True, but war is different. I was referring to criminals entering your house. But I guess an intruder in Germany would be different from an intruder in Latin America.

I mean, you could probably feel vindicated by killing a home invader and at the same time feel like shit for taking a life.

 

[Ocelot]

I still think it would be different if I kill a criminal who was coming after me though.

I have had many people close to me be victims of crime (including a murder), and the feeling I had after some of those experiences, I don't think there would be many regrets if I could rid the Earth of those demons.

Even if you might rationally think that you can never fully control your instinctive and emotional response.

Also, there's a huge difference, at least for me, between someone coming to rob and someone coming to kill me.

 

[Seven]

Tbf, shellshock is less about guilt than about having lived in constant fear of death, accompanied by horrible conditions all around and the noise of war.

I didn't refer to shellshock because it's the same thing, but because WWI was pretty much the first time when people started collecting evidence about the psychological impact of traumatic events. Many people who suffered from shellshock (which I believe is a short term stress reaction) also went on to develop ptsd, which is something you could also expect after an armed conflict.

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Even if you might rationally think that you can never fully control your instinctive and emotional response.

Also, there's a huge difference, at least for me, between someone coming to rob and someone coming to kill me.

You can definitely condition instinctive and empotional responses. Which is why I think having experience with such incidents is what matters most. A person who is not used to criminal facts, being involved in such a shooting, will think about it for a long time imo.

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I mean, you could probably feel vindicated by killing a home invader and at the same time feel like shit for taking a life.

Especially because you could have misread the situation. Maybe the home invader didn't have a gun. Maybe it was some 16 year old thug trying to act tough. And you usually only have seconds to assess the situation, but years to think about it afterwards.

 

[Ocelot]

I didn't refer to shellshock because it's the same thing, but because WWI was pretty much the first time when people started collecting evidence about the psychological impact of traumatic events. Many people who suffered from shellshock (which I believe is a short term stress reaction) also went on to develop ptsd, which is something you could also expect after an armed conflict.

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You can definitely condition instinctive and empotional responses. Which is why I think having experience with such incidents is what matters most. A person who is not used to criminal facts, being involved in such a shooting, will think about it for a long time imo.

Definitely, that's why I said control and not condition or influence.

Tbh it downrigh scares me how easily ordinary humans can get accustomed to killings, at least according to soldier's diaries & testimonials.

Not unaffected by any means, often coming away with severe disorders, but that usually doesn't affect them in the act

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I mean, you could probably feel vindicated by killing a home invader and at the same time feel like shit for taking a life.

Even if you might rationally think that you can never fully control your instinctive and emotional response.

Also, there's a huge difference, at least for me, between someone coming to rob and someone coming to kill me.

I think we can agree that it depends on the situation and how desensitised you are to this kind of violence.

 

[Ocelot]

Especially because you could have misread the situation. Maybe the home invader didn't have a gun. Maybe it was some 16 year old thug trying to act tough. And you usually only have seconds to assess the situation, but years to think about it afterwards.

Or the other guy has a gun, but only ends up using it "in self defence" once you come running at him with a gun yourself.

It generally just escalates the situation to a level it doesn't have to be.

 

[Seven]

Definitely, that's why I said control and not condition or influence.

Tbh it downrigh scares me how easily ordinary humans can get accustomed to killings, at least according to soldier's diaries & testimonials.

Not unaffected by any means, often coming away with severe disorders, but that usually doesn't affect them in the act

It is scary. Before I went on to study law, I studied history at university. One of the things we studied was the level of violence in society. You see that, even though we might think it's the opposite, it's been a pretty linear decline throughout the last few centuries. I can't help but think that's part of why shellshock was suddeny a thing during WWI. Maybe people were just used to huge amounts of violence in earlier times.

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Or the other guy has a gun, but only ends up using it "in self defence" once you come running at him with a gun yourself.

It generally just escalates the situation to a level it doesn't have to be.

That is actually one of the biggest arguments against gun ownership imo. It usually does not improve an already difficult situation with everyone involved being on edge. The only scenario when it does is if someone is really going to shoot you and you shoot him first.