What accent do you think in? (2 Viewers)

[Martin]

I agree that all this stuff happens in the head, but I can't help but think it's one 'tier' below the words themselves in the mind. What I mean is, I think at the least conscious level, an American and an Australian's thoughts would be equal in thinking out a sentence in their heads, and other things like pronunciation and intonation only become involved when these words actually need to be converted to speech.

There is more to semantics than basic meaning. Expressions in one accent/language convey more than the words means. "what's up?" can take on any range of meanings depending on context, and it's not even commonly used in British. So how are accents/slangs equivalent? They're not.

 

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[Seven]

That's interesting. Have there been recorded cases of people forgetting a whole language, but completely retaining the ability to speak/read another?

Yes, there have been recorded cases. I don't know how it is possible, because one would expect that if a certain area of the brain is damaged one would lose all ability to speak, but I know it has happened before.

 

[mikhail]

British.

Here's the best example, which looks better realize or realise?

Worst example ever. The British originally used the 'American' spelling -ize, colloquially changed it about a century ago, and now people criticize (yes, that's my default, in spite of an otherwise rigidly British vocabulary) the correct use, which was recognised (yes, I'm inconsistent about this - dang edumacation!) as such by respectable sources like the Oxford dictionary (seriously).

It reflects the pronunciation better. As does organize.

De way u speek or not, it stil kan b rong doh. Phonetic spelling is a cop out.

 

[Martin]

De way u speek or not, it stil kan b rong doh. Phonetic spelling is a cop out.

Stop applying strict logic :faq1:

Phonetic spelling is a vehicle for correct pronunciation, it's not an assurance. Point being that phonetic spelling at least serves a purpose. Some language (Polish) are entirely composed this way, which makes it awkward to learn languages that allow wide difference between writing and speech (French).

 

[Geof]

Speaking of dreams though, do any of you bilingual people find yourselves dreaming in a language that's not your native tongue? Isn't it weird when that happens? For me, I find it really strange when I realise that all the people in my dream were speaking Korean...

I often dream in dutch. I also happen to think, or even talk to myself in Dutch.

we don't have mammoth words like that

Like hottentottententententoonstellingen?

 

[Martin]

I often dream in dutch. I also happen to think, or even talk to myself in Dutch.

I love when people say that. Makes me feel like I'm not an outcast.

Like hottentottententententoonstellingen?

As Jack said, it's possible, but in practice it never happens. I wikipedia'd just now and they seem to have a competition for it.

karbondioksidbrannslukningsapparatutsprøytningsdysebruksanvisningvedlegginnholdsfortegnelsene (93)

the table of contents of the appendix to the manual for the nozzle of the carbon dioxide fire extinguisher ejector (roughly)

but that is a contrived example, words like that are never used. Realistic words are

høyesterettsjustitiarius - supreme court judge

organisasjonsutviklingsprosesser - processes of business development

sannsynlighetsmaksimeringsestimator - estimator for maximizing probability

mesterligakvalifiseringskampene - the CL qualifying matches

 

[gray]

De way u speek or not, it stil kan b rong doh. Phonetic spelling is a cop out.

I'm with John on this one; phonetics can't be used as an argument

 

[Slagathor]

F
Ahh yes, but only to a certain extent. I'm far more comfortable with English than I am with Korean, and whenever I have to speak Korean, it has to be consciously translated before it comes out of my mouth. The reason I find it strange is that I thought dreams were supposed to be fully subconscious, so such complex tasks should be beyond the scope of dreams.

Ah, but what if you are just as comfortable with your second language as you are with your first? I never translate in my head when I speak English or German (Italian, very rarely). It just comes out. I switching to thinking in English and subsequently speak fluently in English.

Thinking is King, speech is its slave.

I agree that all this stuff happens in the head, but I can't help but think it's one 'tier' below the words themselves in the mind. What I mean is, I think at the least conscious level, an American and an Australian's thoughts would be equal in thinking out a sentence in their heads, and other things like pronunciation and intonation only become involved when these words actually need to be converted to speech.

I'm not sure about that... I think pronunciation already takes place in the head before it comes out through the mouth. In my experience anyway. But languages are different for different people. My brother is a complete science/math expert but his language skills are inferior to mine, and he disagrees with me about my thinking-first theory.

Like hottentottententententoonstellingen?

From a random governmental report (I have to read dozens every week, think I've posted this sentence before but I printed it and stuck it to the wall cause of it's grammatical beauty):

"De door de staatsinvesteringsmaatschappij en equivalenten onfortuinlijk genomen surrogaatmaatregelen lieten de sectorafdelingen in een financieel hulpbehoevende situatie achter. De daaropvolgende verantwoordelijkheidsverdeling werd slechts door enkelen erkend. De belangenbehartigingsorganisaties slaagden er consequentieel niet in de onderverdenkingstaanden aansprakelijk te stellen. De onoverbrugbare meningsverschillen tussen de verschillende betrokkenen zorgen ervoor dat de ontstane patstelling voortduurt."

As Jack said, it's possible, but in practice it never happens. I wikipedia'd just now and they seem to have a competition for it.

karbondioksidbrannslukningsapparatutsprøytningsdysebruksanvisningvedlegginnholdsfortegnelsene (93)

the table of contents of the appendix to the manual for the nozzle of the carbon dioxide fire extinguisher ejector (roughly)

No idea what object you're talking about here but I think I can translate the others to Dutch, here we go:

but that is a contrived example, words like that are never used. Realistic words are

høyesterettsjustitiarius - supreme court judge

Hooggerechtshofrechter

organisasjonsutviklingsprosesser - processes of business development

Organisatieontwikkelingsproces

sannsynlighetsmaksimeringsestimator - estimator for maximizing probability

What?

mesterligakvalifiseringskampene - the CL qualifying matches

Europacupkwalificatiewedstrijden

 

[gray]

Ah, but what if you are just as comfortable with your second language as you are with your first? I never translate in my head when I speak English or German (Italian, very rarely). It just comes out. I switching to thinking in English and subsequently speak fluently in English.

Thinking is King, speech is its slave.

Ahh yes, I very much agree, but that's precisely why I raised questions about said phenomenon. I'm far more comfortable thinking and speaking in English than Korean, and I thought that gap was too far for my subconscious mind to cross.

I'm not sure about that... I think pronunciation already takes place in the head before it comes out through the mouth. In my experience anyway. But languages are different for different people. My brother is a complete science/math expert but his language skills are inferior to mine, and he disagrees with me about my thinking-first theory.

So I guess there's no absolute with this topic as far as we're aware.

 

[Slagathor]

Ahh yes, I very much agree, but that's precisely why I raised questions about said phenomenon. I'm far more comfortable thinking and speaking in English than Korean, and I thought that gap was too far for my subconscious mind to cross.

Nah, I think you can cross that gap any time you want, since Korean is not a completely alien language to you (ie you never had to start learning it from scratch, right?).

So I guess there's no absolute with this topic as far as we're aware.

Probably not... It's a well-known phenomenon on European schools that some students are good at languages, and others are good at exact science (maths etc). Only very rarely are people very good at both. It's odd but that's the way it seems to work...