We must learn to play without Nedved (2 Viewers)

Zizou · Nov 27, 2003

And why is it that when there is a mistake in favour of Juve it's "blatant" but when it's a mistake against Juve or in favour of any other team like Milan for example, it's just a simple mistake? Come on think before you blurp something.

ancelotti · Nov 27, 2003

Every club is going to get a bit of help from a human error every now and then, that's understandable. The sad thing is that with Juve, this "help" is obvious and there for all to see. When Sensi attacked Juve for going after players that Roma wanted, Moggi just ignored him. If Moggi is trying to answer back now, it's because he feels these allegations are serious. If Milan and Roma were trailing by more than 2 points, these voices would be even louder. This is football. Competition is serious, tension is high. Fans are passionate. The only thing I know is that the top three teams in Serie A are the best 3 in Italy, period. Now, if you ask me which team deserves to be top, that's besides the point. If Serie A is too corrupt, at least there are other European competitions out there where Milan and Roma can prove their worth....

Hydde · Nov 27, 2003

Yeah, and because we are so corrupt.. we are struggling in europe too right?? :rolleyes:

IncuboRossonero · Nov 27, 2003

Unfortunately you guys don't answer my questions: Maybe you should get tutoring lessons on debate from Rickenbacker2 and Denco and Sergio. I have explained 1000 times what episodes and Blatantly incorrect calls are and your citing me Perugia and a hit that may have been from an angle a foul and then you throw what if SHEVA didn't play? WHATS YOUR POINT?? Are you even reading my posts or just typing your own before I start...I SAID IT IS NOT AN EPISODE....thats not what we call an episode saying "We lost because of certian episodes" leads one to believe that it was riddled with a historic bad call or a once in a lifetime own goal: those are episodes. We are you bringing the Nedved arguement in? All I said was that its not episode and we were not even discussing the outcome had he played. Why? Because its irrelevant. What if a healthy Raul played in the semi final? What if in your second stage you would not have scored the last minute goal? What if What if What if...how cares that was the not the arguement.
And Slack..seriously I don't even understading what your saying half the time. Your saying Simic walked into the elbow. Here's a secret: I WAS AT THE GAME. I saw it later at home and have the benefit of living in Italy where it was broadcast on 8 different post game shows from every angle and even amateur home video. NO ONE in their right mind said Simic walked into his elbow because of one fact: Trez. RAISED HIS ELBOW. your making the arguement that : he rammed his jaw into my fist: I didn't punch him. Its against all logic.

Denco/Rickenbacker2/Sergio: You have your hands full with these pupils.

Zizou · Nov 27, 2003

You really did not have any better answer did you?

gray · Nov 27, 2003

What was?

gray · Nov 27, 2003

No, Moggi (and the rest of the football world) for that matter ignores Sensi because he's a whining knob.

What's your point? That Milan and Roma should move to another league because it's not good enough for them? No, that's Celtic and Rangers.

You're just making excuses. What do you mean, it's irrelevant who leads Serie A? I'm sure you'd be claiming that it's testament to Milan's greatness that

'WE'RE TOP OF THE SERIE A AND DEFENDING EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS".

Gimme a break

IncuboRossonero · Nov 28, 2003

No Zizou...to be honest..I can't believe I wrote that much because you have shown to NEVER back up your arguements and I notice that you neatly completely avoided things I asked you..just tossed them aside and concentrate on others ..pffffff

Why I do I try with you Johnny Come Lately Juventini...so who is your team for next year? Hey Rome looks good....

IncuboRossonero · Nov 28, 2003

Oh ... do you understand what an episode is now? ... oh and not that I expect a reply that answers my question..but I'm still waiting for those examples you spoke about.

ancelotti · Nov 28, 2003

Ignorant fool.

I have seen most of your comments here, and it seems like your family didn't think sending you to school was a good idea....

About you being defending European Champions, I'm not so sure. If you compare Milan and Juve so far this season, Juve has had it way easier in terms of fixtures, and yet they still have controversy surrounding their success. It's not me saying it, the evidence is out there.

The Rossoneri that come to these forums are people that feel that as supporters of standard-bearing clubs, we both have things in common, things we can relate to. It's not about who is better, or who is the best...It's about how we maintain our traditions. It's about style.

And right now, regardless of what the Serie A table says, nothing suggests Milan are inferior, or Juve are superior, the table says you are ahead by two points, the schedule says Milan have played more big matches, the media says Juve have been very very lucky, and nobody can disagree.

Now, since you're retarded, the point is that Juve are a 'grande squadra" that is strong enough to win without controversy.

Idiot.

ancelotti · Nov 28, 2003

Your group is so tough.

ancelotti · Nov 28, 2003

Don't make me post a link to any of walu_EX's posts!

slack · Nov 28, 2003

Which part didn't you?

So WHAT if you were at the game? Did you catch what the referee didn't in real-time? Did you managed to have a seat in the 6-yard box? Did that enhance your somewhat deliberately limited understanding of the matter?

You're gonna hafta take into account the circumstances preceding that incident. That rugby tackle was a blatant penalty but I didn't think you saw it fit to mention that. Trez was clearly antagonized and Simic, the naive innocent angel that he is, couldn't have known that. No way.

Trez raised his elbow before Simic even came close. Now, would anybody in their right mind with a full view of that fact walk towards it? Impact is relative and we all know who was in motion. Upon impact, before which Simic made NO attempt to even defend himself against a probability, with the gesture of his arms open and all, he even managed to look mildly surprised! Well done. Stringing it all together, I mean, how believable is that? That's my take on natural instincts and logic.

You, just like the rest of your ilk, keep raving and ranting on this incident solely on the premise that contact was made. You can have a million replays but they merely serve to illustrate this and only this fact. Incidentally, I know a guy in Italy who said the Italian channels (Berlusconi's ones, notwithstanding) concluded that Simic was cheating so the discrepancy is highly interesting. Before you start getting excited, cheating essentially includes intent as well, on top of the superficial evidence which you base your case entirely on. Again, the former, quite necessary before convicting someone last I checked, was conveniently bypassed.

The bottomline is your despicable cheating little twat wasn't content after emerging unscathed just moments before; he saw the opportunity and was milking for something more. Have you just started watching the Serie A? You make a big issue on objectivity and rightly so. However, I don't know if gullibility should necessarily be a part of it.

Btw, pupils? Stuff that superior mannerism up where the sun doesn't shine. Some of our kids here will be better than you and some already are ... in humility at least.

IncuboRossonero · Nov 28, 2003

As usual your not making sense. Your trying to convince me of this...I have to teach you the fundamentals of criminal law and actus/mens rea before I can even have a conversation with you about intent/motive and assault. With all due respect your post makes no sense whatsoever .. even in layman's terms.
You didn't answer my question..why would Trez. raise his elbow? Direcly in front of him????
2. How do you explain Trez.'s body going into Simic? Is this too complicated for you to get? Trez. is leaning into Simic..by your account it would have to be the other way around. HERE:

Thank God you were never a juror in NYC...

EXPLAIN HOW TREZ.'s BODY IS LEANING INTO SIMIC..Simic is the one backing up..Trez is even looking at his elbow and belittling as it makes contact....

SO.....Explain how your theory holds water when you see this picture and Trez.'s obvious intention to let him "taste his elbow"..he is even grinning...SIMPLE ENOUGH...?

gray · Nov 28, 2003

And so is yours, evidently, seeing that you lost to Brugge. Congratulations, if that's a sign that your club isn't corrupted :undecide:

gray · Nov 28, 2003

I hardly think you've seen most of my comments here, considering you registered to the forum last month.

I see that your parents didn't bother teaching you etiquette and acceptable human behaviour.

What makes you think I'm uneducated? I'd start posting my marks for my university entrance exams, but I have more humility than that.

Why do you feel the need for personal attacks? IncuboRossonero learned his lesson, and he's now a welcome member of the forum who contributes useful comments on the issues presented. That's because he cut the crap and started talking some sense, and I advise you to do the same.

Why don't you, instead of calling me an ignorant fool, tell me why i'm an ignorant fool, and address the issues at hand. I'm not here to have petty arguments.

Dude, what the hell are you talking about? If you read my previous post, you'll see i was mimicking you, not saying that Juve are defending champions. What do you mean, "about Juve being defending champions, i'm not so sure?". Milan are the European champions, and it's a fact... not a moot point.

I fail to see the relevance or validity of what you just said.

I'm not talking about the current Serie A table, I'm talking about our clubs' respective performances in the league overall, and those records tend to imply that Juve have the consistency over a whole season to win matches week in, week out.

I see no coherence in your statement. The word 'since' usually implies that the first part of an argument links and backs up the second. What does your theory that i'm retarded have anything to do with Juve's squad, or what the point of your argument is?

slack · Nov 28, 2003

You're either really incredibly dense or just trying my patience. Criminal law? I am impressed but why on earth do we need that when there's an easier way called common sense? Would you educate me on that as well?

The sole intent here is playacting to get someone sent off, not assault.

Incubo Incubo, I told the elbow was ALREADY raised in what's presumably a warning against further unpleasantries. You have instead skirted around my counter question as to why that moron walked towards it head-on in the first place. I then asked you, like I did to all Milanistas who screamed murder, to put yourselves in Simic's football boots less his brains, in being as foolhardy in similar hostile circumstances.

No answer.
Revert/point to picture.
Trez guilty.
The end.

Trigger-happy, bloodthirsty bunch you Milanistas are, tsk.

I tire of describing and reasoning the entire incident from start till finish when I already did it twice. To-date, you could/have NOT refuted a single part of it except clinging on to that pathetic notion of contact as predicted. The picture epitomizes your myopia on a focal point and trashing the whole sequence. You did hit something with the juror part though - sums up your limitation and my sentiments perfectly albeit in the opposite sense. Classic case of theorizing first then force-fitting facts later.

Did you score very well for your picture comprehension? Hrm actually, Simic looked guilt-stricken to me with Trez bemused after seeing through that filthy little trick that's hardly anything new. Clutching faces anyone? Oops, Simic even missed that part! Crap, there goes the realism. Alternatively, I think Simic could well be saying "give it to me, Trez"

Btw, you haven't answered my question on whether have you only just started watching the Serie A as well. That's pretty important in providing an insight into your line of thought and would be very helpful in reaching a mutual understanding.

You have nearly exhausted all the benefits of doubts. Now go read my previous posts again and try to come up with something better in your 3rd and final attempt. We're going ridiculously OT here so keep it short and sweet.

KB824 · Nov 28, 2003

Lose games? No. But we do lose something when Nedved isn't there. He seems to inspire the rest of his team, and lift the quality of play of those around him. That's something that you don't see on the stat sheet. The real shame is that he has developed into this type of player so late into his career. Finding his replacement, assuming that Oliveira isn't ready to take over, will be a priority.

Can DP play his position if needed? even if only for a game or two. Seems to me like he could fill the position on a temporary basis, if need be. He could provide good support for DiVaio and Trez.

KB824 · Nov 28, 2003

OK.

I leave for ONE day to celebrate Thanksgiving with my family, and a civil war has broken out.

Even ancelotti, normally a mild-mannered young man, has resorted to spewing venom. (please do not call gray retarded, he's a friend of mine. Thank you.)

Do we even know what we are arguing about anymore??

The fact that Juve gets the benefit of the doubt with calls more often than most teams? This isn't exactly earth-shattering news here. Watch the matches, read the reports, watch the Italian football shows, it's a topic of discussion. There's a reason for it.

They DO get the benefit of the doubt. The points being brought up by Incubo and Ancelotti are not out of jealousy, for they are not supporters of Ancona or Empoli, they are brought up because everyone in Italy is talking about it.

You want a simple solution to this problem. I've got one.

Non-Italian Referees.

It takes care of any assumed bias, for these officials, more often than not, won't be supporters of any particular squad, which is usually one of the main points brought up whenever an official makes a questionable call.

gray · Nov 28, 2003

Thanks bro. I got your back too

Despite the pros of this, Italian referees also have the ability (in general) to distinguish between the crap that Italian players present to them week in, week out. In exchange for the lack of bias, you'd get referees who blow their whistle for every single little dive the players do

We must learn to play without Nedved (2 Viewers)

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Minimiliano Tristelli

Inferiority complex

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Inferiority complex

Inferiority complex

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Inferiority complex

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