I would trust Oliveira more than I would trust Maresca.
Oliveira just seems to be more aggresive, just like Nedved.
Oliveira just seems to be more aggresive, just like Nedved.
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We must learn to play without Nedved (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Catenaccio
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Juventus won numerous trophies and matches without Nedved and they would after he has gone
Di Vaio plays nothing like Dp, and does very little everytime he is shifted to the left, he becomes more involved when he goes to the middle and scores, he is quicker and more direct than Dp
All you have to do is change the way we play without Nedved and play a straight forward 4-4-2
Remember whenever Dp is playing Nedved does not see the reason to play out of his skin so maybe some players give less cos they know Nedved will be there to bail them out and if aint there for a period of time , I can assure you they give more
If you think that what I am saying is incorrect, count the amount of goals Nedved scores when Dp is on the pitch compared to how many he scores when Dp is not so I am pretty sure others like Camo or Maresca or any body else in the midfiled would just add to the percentage they are giving at the moment
Di Vaio plays nothing like Dp, and does very little everytime he is shifted to the left, he becomes more involved when he goes to the middle and scores, he is quicker and more direct than Dp
All you have to do is change the way we play without Nedved and play a straight forward 4-4-2
Remember whenever Dp is playing Nedved does not see the reason to play out of his skin so maybe some players give less cos they know Nedved will be there to bail them out and if aint there for a period of time , I can assure you they give more
If you think that what I am saying is incorrect, count the amount of goals Nedved scores when Dp is on the pitch compared to how many he scores when Dp is not so I am pretty sure others like Camo or Maresca or any body else in the midfiled would just add to the percentage they are giving at the moment
I can see what you're saying denco, but I don't agree. Naturally, Nedved is going to score more (and get more assists) when there isn't another ball-player in attack, taking up space and time on the ball. At the same time, defensive mids can't carry the same impact in attack, no matter how many attackers you remove from the team.
Okay I was wrong about that, I was more meaning to say that DP's game isn't so unique that a player like Di Vaio can't replace him.
I wouldn't call that solid evidence; it has more to do with Nedved's play when DP's on the pitch. Whereas many times in our situation over the past 2 months, Nedved had little choice but to be the hero and take the shots, when DP's on the pitch, Pavel has more options for passes than an idle Trezeguet sitting in the box.
I wouldn't call that solid evidence; it has more to do with Nedved's play when DP's on the pitch. Whereas many times in our situation over the past 2 months, Nedved had little choice but to be the hero and take the shots, when DP's on the pitch, Pavel has more options for passes than an idle Trezeguet sitting in the box.
- We would still win without the ref's help...something which I doubt you can do.
- If we had to count the favours and mistakes this season, we'd find the Juve has more mistakes against them than in their favour. And we're the team who has conceded most penalties from all the big guns.
- The refs are mostly Juventini? I doubt it as there are no proofs...but we do have proof that linesmen are Milanisti....Milan-Lazio anyone? And this is realy proof since the linesman is a RAS employee and is a member of the Milan club of his town.
- Biased or not biased in Europe, Juve in these past 10 years is the most consistent team. 4 European finals in a row for a total of 5 finals in 9 years. The lost finals were cos of episodes and nothing else.
- Juve has the most Scudetti cos they are Italy's finest team even though they don't have Milan's money.
- If we had to count the favours and mistakes this season, we'd find the Juve has more mistakes against them than in their favour. And we're the team who has conceded most penalties from all the big guns.
- The refs are mostly Juventini? I doubt it as there are no proofs...but we do have proof that linesmen are Milanisti....Milan-Lazio anyone? And this is realy proof since the linesman is a RAS employee and is a member of the Milan club of his town.
- Biased or not biased in Europe, Juve in these past 10 years is the most consistent team. 4 European finals in a row for a total of 5 finals in 9 years. The lost finals were cos of episodes and nothing else.
- Juve has the most Scudetti cos they are Italy's finest team even though they don't have Milan's money.
Zizou...please if your a Juve fan your coming across as a very mis-informed one: the real informed Juve fans will not be pleased!
Firstly, don't have Milan's money? Berlusconi is the richest in Italy but based on earnings and not family assets. Do you have any idea how much the Agnelli family is worth in assets? 51% majority shareholder of Ferrari spa, Majority shareholder in FIAT spa, Alfa Romeo....they employ about 40% of the Italian south. Are you kidding? Seriously do your homework before posting this type of stuff. Thus nevermind the linesman who happens to be in Milan...people wonder how many officials have relatives working for FIAT???
Next, Juve has THREE BLATANT CALLS in their favor this year and its making all the headlines: could you name me the calls against them? Because I can tell you the calls in their favor...
The Trez. elbow with not even a whistle.
The Zambrotta dive with a PK
The last match and the kick which was taken 10 metres away from where the official signalled with both teams clearly unprepared.
I'd also like to highlight the fact that the ref in that case is facing suspension: Camoranesi elbowed someone in the head and when the player fell to clutch his head the ref taped a yellow card on his forehead while down to mock him.
Please...lets not pull facts out of the air so that posts are taken seriously.
Can you also tell me the episodes in the CL final making you lose the cup???
Firstly, don't have Milan's money? Berlusconi is the richest in Italy but based on earnings and not family assets. Do you have any idea how much the Agnelli family is worth in assets? 51% majority shareholder of Ferrari spa, Majority shareholder in FIAT spa, Alfa Romeo....they employ about 40% of the Italian south. Are you kidding? Seriously do your homework before posting this type of stuff. Thus nevermind the linesman who happens to be in Milan...people wonder how many officials have relatives working for FIAT???
Next, Juve has THREE BLATANT CALLS in their favor this year and its making all the headlines: could you name me the calls against them? Because I can tell you the calls in their favor...
The Trez. elbow with not even a whistle.
The Zambrotta dive with a PK
The last match and the kick which was taken 10 metres away from where the official signalled with both teams clearly unprepared.
I'd also like to highlight the fact that the ref in that case is facing suspension: Camoranesi elbowed someone in the head and when the player fell to clutch his head the ref taped a yellow card on his forehead while down to mock him.
Please...lets not pull facts out of the air so that posts are taken seriously.
Can you also tell me the episodes in the CL final making you lose the cup???
But that's fixed sets! Juve does not have Milan's or Inter liquid assets! The turnover is always good but we do not have the same finances that Milan or Inter dispose of. That said, we're very healthy as we have no problems, but we can't expect big purchases.
No I'm sorry you`re the mi-informed one. Read above + you guys have 30m Euro debts, which you don't pay so you can avoid paying taxes like Juve does. And if ever a law is passed that clubs in red have to pay the amounts due, then Berlusconi can easily fork out a a cheque
Yeah sure no one denies that but no one else seems to remember the bad calls we receive or the good calls you guys receive. You're just hypocrites.
Ok you wanted three? Here you go:
Chievo-Juve - Don't even say that it was a clear penalty cos even thouh he was held slightly, he still fell as if he was shot
Juventus-Roma - Clear penalty on Camoranesi that after the match everyone (controcampo, il processo, etc) was saying it was but no one really made a fuss about it. IF it had been in favour of Roma, no one would have stopped Sensi.
Juventus-Bologna - Everyone just mentions Zambrotta's penalty (in which he admitted unlike your lovely players do), but no one or rather just a few people mentioned Bologna's penalty. Very clear penalty, huh?
These are just from top of my head so I'm sure there are more. Point is we are not clutching to straws as we accept the fact that refs can make mistakes. If you can't deal with it then it's your loss. If refs influenced our results and merits so much in Serie A, why are we already qualified for the next round of the CL?
- If Simic was that stupid to walk on an elbow, he deserved it.
- He admitted, where's the bloody problem? You guys have ****en Inzaghi and Pirlo who win penalties and free kick just by blowing them...and I never saw them apologising or admitting. If Zambrotta had not admitted it, you wouldn`t be here talking about it
- Yeah it was 10 metres back, big deal...same thing happened against us 3 years ago when we played Inter. Once it happened against us and this time it happened in our favour.
- The ref in that case thought the player faked it. I've seen many games where Maldini dhas avoided any sanction just cos he's....Maldini.
Since you can't see further than your nose, you'd think that all of the above were facts pulled out of the air so you'll probably either ignore or dismiss my points.
Episodes as in:
- Nedved getting suspended and losing through penalties
- Mijatovic's offside goal
- the whole game against Borussia was an episode when Juve were clearly 10 times better than any other team
We obviously also had episodes in our favour since we won the CL thanks to the penalty shoot out.
No I'm sorry you`re the mi-informed one. Read above + you guys have 30m Euro debts, which you don't pay so you can avoid paying taxes like Juve does. And if ever a law is passed that clubs in red have to pay the amounts due, then Berlusconi can easily fork out a a cheque
Yeah sure no one denies that but no one else seems to remember the bad calls we receive or the good calls you guys receive. You're just hypocrites.
Ok you wanted three? Here you go:
Chievo-Juve - Don't even say that it was a clear penalty cos even thouh he was held slightly, he still fell as if he was shot
Juventus-Roma - Clear penalty on Camoranesi that after the match everyone (controcampo, il processo, etc) was saying it was but no one really made a fuss about it. IF it had been in favour of Roma, no one would have stopped Sensi.
Juventus-Bologna - Everyone just mentions Zambrotta's penalty (in which he admitted unlike your lovely players do), but no one or rather just a few people mentioned Bologna's penalty. Very clear penalty, huh?
These are just from top of my head so I'm sure there are more. Point is we are not clutching to straws as we accept the fact that refs can make mistakes. If you can't deal with it then it's your loss. If refs influenced our results and merits so much in Serie A, why are we already qualified for the next round of the CL?
- If Simic was that stupid to walk on an elbow, he deserved it.
- He admitted, where's the bloody problem? You guys have ****en Inzaghi and Pirlo who win penalties and free kick just by blowing them...and I never saw them apologising or admitting. If Zambrotta had not admitted it, you wouldn`t be here talking about it
- Yeah it was 10 metres back, big deal...same thing happened against us 3 years ago when we played Inter. Once it happened against us and this time it happened in our favour.
- The ref in that case thought the player faked it. I've seen many games where Maldini dhas avoided any sanction just cos he's....Maldini.
Since you can't see further than your nose, you'd think that all of the above were facts pulled out of the air so you'll probably either ignore or dismiss my points.
Episodes as in:
- Nedved getting suspended and losing through penalties
- Mijatovic's offside goal
- the whole game against Borussia was an episode when Juve were clearly 10 times better than any other team
We obviously also had episodes in our favour since we won the CL thanks to the penalty shoot out.
For a person whom we're led to believe is here to 'discuss' football, its strange to see you delving into such drivel, Incubo.
Honestly, I don't know if we need to discuss this. We've been doing that for years at another forum and nothing good ever comes out of it ... incidentally, the very reason why I am spending more time here.
Besides, you'll find that nobody really knows what's boiling beneath despite claiming so. What passes off as the 'truth' is usually arrived at by groping at selected stats, putting 2 and 2 together complete with a huge dose of insult for good measure.
Stick to football eh?
Honestly, I don't know if we need to discuss this. We've been doing that for years at another forum and nothing good ever comes out of it ... incidentally, the very reason why I am spending more time here.
Besides, you'll find that nobody really knows what's boiling beneath despite claiming so. What passes off as the 'truth' is usually arrived at by groping at selected stats, putting 2 and 2 together complete with a huge dose of insult for good measure.
Stick to football eh?
Slack..you told me before...I'll re-iterate your message..stay out its our discussion..if you dish it..be ready to take it buddy.
Zizou..those are not episodes..those are excuses! And the Nedved absence was stupidity. Episodes are situations that dictate the outcome of the game. You didn't lose all your cups becaue of episodes you lost because you didn't play well enough. In the Milan game you were playing with a Man advantage and still failed to do anything..so tell me...where is the excuse?
The officiating calls you made are errors the Juve ones are BLATANT meaning a blind man could see its wrong. errors happen everyday but when its blatant there is no discussion and no doubt:
"Don't even say that it was a clear penalty cos even thouh he was held slightly, he still fell as if he was shot"
This is a situation which there is doubt...the others are not...
You still have not shown me where we got calls our way besides the Lazio game...
Zizou..those are not episodes..those are excuses! And the Nedved absence was stupidity. Episodes are situations that dictate the outcome of the game. You didn't lose all your cups becaue of episodes you lost because you didn't play well enough. In the Milan game you were playing with a Man advantage and still failed to do anything..so tell me...where is the excuse?
The officiating calls you made are errors the Juve ones are BLATANT meaning a blind man could see its wrong. errors happen everyday but when its blatant there is no discussion and no doubt:
"Don't even say that it was a clear penalty cos even thouh he was held slightly, he still fell as if he was shot"
This is a situation which there is doubt...the others are not...
You still have not shown me where we got calls our way besides the Lazio game...
Muahaha, touchy and spiteful boy you are 
I'm touching on "Trez's elbow" solely on the grounds that you are wrong, not because I like talking about incidents. The simplest way to resolve a non-issue is simply to ask a few basic questions.
Why did Trez raise his elbow? A seemingly important question but who cares? The real puzzle is why would Simic walk into one and exaggerate the effects? The possibilities are he's either stupid or malicious but the consensus is he's both. Why do you only look at a picture when you have a clip? Why take something at face value when it isn't that hard to think? Think, analyse, post - I'll reiterate that preaching for you to practise.
Still, if you're gonna tell us you'd confront a likely hostile character, displaying an obvious gesture to fend/ward you off with the most vulnerable part of your body, well ...
But I'll gladly give you the benefit of a doubt! Maybe you live in a part of the world which does things differently. Maybe natural instincts don't generally apply to you. Maybe maybe ... you get the drift. I mean, that sneaky despicable act by your cheating little twat just as BLATANT to us (and more) in the same way as it slipped your grasp. I was told Berlusconi's channels were airing the incident and concluding likewise, not that we needed such evidence in the first place if Milanistas employed a rational line of thought.
So, where does that leave us? While its by no means entirely your fault, you'll do well to apologize to all the good people you've offended so far on this. We won't hold it against you ... promise!
I'm touching on "Trez's elbow" solely on the grounds that you are wrong, not because I like talking about incidents. The simplest way to resolve a non-issue is simply to ask a few basic questions.
Why did Trez raise his elbow? A seemingly important question but who cares? The real puzzle is why would Simic walk into one and exaggerate the effects? The possibilities are he's either stupid or malicious but the consensus is he's both. Why do you only look at a picture when you have a clip? Why take something at face value when it isn't that hard to think? Think, analyse, post - I'll reiterate that preaching for you to practise.
Still, if you're gonna tell us you'd confront a likely hostile character, displaying an obvious gesture to fend/ward you off with the most vulnerable part of your body, well ...
But I'll gladly give you the benefit of a doubt! Maybe you live in a part of the world which does things differently. Maybe natural instincts don't generally apply to you. Maybe maybe ... you get the drift. I mean, that sneaky despicable act by your cheating little twat just as BLATANT to us (and more) in the same way as it slipped your grasp. I was told Berlusconi's channels were airing the incident and concluding likewise, not that we needed such evidence in the first place if Milanistas employed a rational line of thought.
So, where does that leave us? While its by no means entirely your fault, you'll do well to apologize to all the good people you've offended so far on this. We won't hold it against you ... promise!
We're still in the dark as to what happened, and we've agreed to disagree about Simic walking into Trez and whatever. We're never gonna come to a conclusion about this, so let's just drop this issue. I'm not running away from the argument, but it's getting nowhere.
The kick was only taken about 3 metres away from the original spot, as you'll see if you watch the goal again. I've never seen a team get penalised for taking a freekick too far behind the original spot. The rules state that if the ball is not moving, a freekick can be taken by the team which won it.
It happens all the time, when a freekick is taken quickly. The thing is, most of the time it doesn't end up in a goal. Should the validity of a referee's call be determined by whether the team scored a goal or not?
Of course not, every call that the ref has to make is an individual incident, and if the initial incident was waived by the referee (as it is on so many occasions when the team that took the freekick didn't score), then anything subsequent shouldn't be brought into question.
This has very little to do with Juve. It's Italian football; the refs have certain preconceptions that players will fall to the ground if they just receive a bit of oral sex, as Glenn so subtly stated
A blatant dive by McManaman earning Nedved a yellow card. You can't deny that it was pivotal to the match; don't suggest for one second that every Milan fan in the world, yourself included, didn't breathe a sigh of relief when Pavel got that booking.
The kick was only taken about 3 metres away from the original spot, as you'll see if you watch the goal again. I've never seen a team get penalised for taking a freekick too far behind the original spot. The rules state that if the ball is not moving, a freekick can be taken by the team which won it.
It happens all the time, when a freekick is taken quickly. The thing is, most of the time it doesn't end up in a goal. Should the validity of a referee's call be determined by whether the team scored a goal or not?
Of course not, every call that the ref has to make is an individual incident, and if the initial incident was waived by the referee (as it is on so many occasions when the team that took the freekick didn't score), then anything subsequent shouldn't be brought into question.
This has very little to do with Juve. It's Italian football; the refs have certain preconceptions that players will fall to the ground if they just receive a bit of oral sex, as Glenn so subtly stated
A blatant dive by McManaman earning Nedved a yellow card. You can't deny that it was pivotal to the match; don't suggest for one second that every Milan fan in the world, yourself included, didn't breathe a sigh of relief when Pavel got that booking.
Nedved is important no doubt but thats because Lippi's strategy has made him so, he is not the great inspiration for the Czech rep becos they have players like Rosiscky and Porbosky to share the workload
The way we are setup is that players like Davids are marginalised , same for Camo as they seem to be playing a supporting act to Nedved
When Nedved was confined to the left, ie having a specific job to do he didnt fare so well, did he? Now he goes where he likes and when he leaves his position others are there to cover for him
Look at Beckham, for Man united he was confined soley to the right but for England he gives more and does more, why , because there is a certain Roy Keane about who does about 3 ppl's job so u tend to relax more, I mean who would have thot that Neville, Phil could be an ample holding mf, but he did and Manu did not miss Keane that much, now no Man u fan would ever have thought so , because it nver really happened that often that Keane would be missing for that long
Same as Juventus, we do not know if we would be able to cope without Nedved who in all honesty does not dominate games, he just goes in fits and bursts but what he does well he does it very well and of cos he can go on forever
You guys are making sound that whenever Nedved is missing we lose games, he is very important but I would lose sleep if Buffon is missing not Nedved
The way we are setup is that players like Davids are marginalised , same for Camo as they seem to be playing a supporting act to Nedved
When Nedved was confined to the left, ie having a specific job to do he didnt fare so well, did he? Now he goes where he likes and when he leaves his position others are there to cover for him
Look at Beckham, for Man united he was confined soley to the right but for England he gives more and does more, why , because there is a certain Roy Keane about who does about 3 ppl's job so u tend to relax more, I mean who would have thot that Neville, Phil could be an ample holding mf, but he did and Manu did not miss Keane that much, now no Man u fan would ever have thought so , because it nver really happened that often that Keane would be missing for that long
Same as Juventus, we do not know if we would be able to cope without Nedved who in all honesty does not dominate games, he just goes in fits and bursts but what he does well he does it very well and of cos he can go on forever
You guys are making sound that whenever Nedved is missing we lose games, he is very important but I would lose sleep if Buffon is missing not Nedved
U can say an anthem here.... but reallu i can believe what u are saying.
U are saying that a team is the same even when its main player is not around???
The Nedved thing is an acceptable excuse because we didnt played that bad in all the competition (except manu) but in that final game.
Now ill ask to you.... you think that Milan would have won the cup without Sheva on the field???.
And dont come with cheap excuses like "the rossonero spirit" and those kind of shits. Just take a look at the Milan scorers o this season... and then ull take about important players and blatant excuses sir.
U are saying that a team is the same even when its main player is not around???
The Nedved thing is an acceptable excuse because we didnt played that bad in all the competition (except manu) but in that final game.
Now ill ask to you.... you think that Milan would have won the cup without Sheva on the field???.
And dont come with cheap excuses like "the rossonero spirit" and those kind of shits. Just take a look at the Milan scorers o this season... and then ull take about important players and blatant excuses sir.
Gray, Sergei and Goat that was probably a Freudian slip
Incubo I didn't know I had to mention the episodes that were in your favour. The only one that coems to my mind is the one against Perugia, where Maldini made an obvious foul on Bothroyd but the ref did not award the penalty just because Maldini said it was not a penalty.
Incubo I didn't know I had to mention the episodes that were in your favour. The only one that coems to my mind is the one against Perugia, where Maldini made an obvious foul on Bothroyd but the ref did not award the penalty just because Maldini said it was not a penalty.