This place is full of people who think they have the right to judge you if you are a fan or not.
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Was Juve's relegation fair? (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
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to all anti-juventini
These are excerpts from the sentences which sent Juventus to Serie B found here on the FIGC official website http://www.figc.it/italiano/comunica...stampa_caf.pdf.
First of all I want to explain the difference between an article 1 violation (points deduction) and an article 6 violation (relegation). Article one is unsportsmanlike conduct (badmouthing a ref) while article 6 is illicit activity (match fixing). Since no article 6 violations were found against Juve the CAF and FIGC did what has never been done before. The created (and later annulled) a structured article violation adding together various article 1 violations to compose and article 6 violation. This is like saying that 3 grand theft autos = a murder 1. This was widely criticized by other judges and lawyers.
I am quoting the sentences from the Commissione d’Appello Federale (CAF) and Corte Federale (CF). The key points are:
- Pg 74-75 CAF claims that there was no “cupola” or “Moggi System” contrary to the Gazzetta
- Pg 76 claims no article 6 violations against Juventus and therefore introduces the structured article violation (much disputed by many legal entities) The reason this is so scandalous is because it attempts to convince the reader that a team (Juventus) was capable of obtaining a favorable position in the standings without fixing the results of a single game. My question is how? The only way to acquire points in the standings is by winning or drawing matches. If Juve didn’t fix any matches then the standings were legit right?
- Pg 83 CAF states that referee selections were done in accordance with the rules of the FIGC therefore all the phone calls made by Moggi to designer Bergamo were legal and altered no referee selections.
- Pg 101 CAF I’m sure you heard of Moggi’s yellow card system to ensure key players were suspended for upcoming matches against Juve. On this page the sentence declares that the yellow cards were not organized.
- Pg 65 CF claims that Moggi and Giraudo operated independently of Juventus and its owners. In other words the team should have been off the hook regarding relegation and only the two directors should have been on trial (that’s the little loophole that kept Milan in the CL)
- Pg 61 CF states that Juventus was not responsible for the salvation of Fiorentina after the De Santis influenced game between Lecce and Parma that finished in a tie allowing the Viola to survive Serie A
- Pg 66 CF states that though Moggi didn’t exercise his ability to condition games, he still possessed the ability. So since you have a car and a bottle of wine you could be tried for having the ability to drink and drive?
- Pg 74 CF admits that no proof of match fixing (article 6) exists.
- Pg 77 CF finally states the proof used against Juventus “Juventus’ advantage was evidenced by their position in the standings at the end of the season”. That’s right…they were guilty because they finished first. So you driving is proof of being a car thief too. Are you laughing yet?
CF Judge Piero Sandulli had an interview in “Il Giornale” on the 27th of July 2006 where he was asked what the reasoning was behind the sentence he approved. His response was “there was no illicit activity; the 2004-2005 season was not fixed. The only doubt we had was Lecce-Parma (didn’t concern Juventus or Moggi) which we looked at again and again (with no video…whatever). In any case the season was legitimate.” I’ll just add that Sandulli has a criminal record for fraudulent activity while at Rome’s City Hall and is a die hard Lazio fan.
CF Judge Mario Serio stated in an interview in “La Repubblica” on the 27th of July 2006 that “in spite of a lack of evidence regarding match fixing, Juventus were sentenced to Serie B and stripped of their titles after taking into consideration the collective interests of the parties involved in the investigation.” All of which happened to be Interista and not just from a fan point of view. See the facebook group to see who the key players in the investigation were and how they were tied to Inter.
Note that no wire taps were heard in court. That’s right. Only pieces of transcripts were used, transcripts that have been manipulated by those that provided them to the court (see facebook group because I don’t feel like re-writing the names and confessions).
Note that no video evidence was allowed to be used by the defense (see facebook videos)
Note no witnesses were allowed to be brought forth
Note that the defense had little more than 3 days to compile their arguments and that they were not presented with the evidence prior to the trial as opposed to what the law dictates…instead the press got a hold of the prosecution’s information first. Is it any wonder? Inter VP Carlo Buare owns la Gazzetta dello Sport and it is run by two major Inter Investors (Verdelli and Cannavo’) while il Corriere dello Sport is run by Bartolozzi (Inter Team Manager). There is more on this in the facebook writings.
This is a fraction of what is out there. This is why I lose my mind when I hear that Juve are “cheaters” or that Moggi is a “criminal”.
I’ll be happy to answer whatever questions I can and provide whatever else I can through email including the actual sentences if they interest anyone.
I’ll eventually be adding the TAR appeal which Juventus mysteriously retracted hours prior to going to court. The appeal was considered to be profound enough to clear Juve’s name and crush the system that governs Italian soccer. After the appeal was retracted the FIGC publically thanked Luce di Montezemolo (FIAT Director and Ferrari President). Month’s later the same Tronchetti owned Telecom Italia (that spied on Juventus) sponsored Ferrari SpA in Formula 1.
These are excerpts from the sentences which sent Juventus to Serie B found here on the FIGC official website http://www.figc.it/italiano/comunica...stampa_caf.pdf.
First of all I want to explain the difference between an article 1 violation (points deduction) and an article 6 violation (relegation). Article one is unsportsmanlike conduct (badmouthing a ref) while article 6 is illicit activity (match fixing). Since no article 6 violations were found against Juve the CAF and FIGC did what has never been done before. The created (and later annulled) a structured article violation adding together various article 1 violations to compose and article 6 violation. This is like saying that 3 grand theft autos = a murder 1. This was widely criticized by other judges and lawyers.
I am quoting the sentences from the Commissione d’Appello Federale (CAF) and Corte Federale (CF). The key points are:
- Pg 74-75 CAF claims that there was no “cupola” or “Moggi System” contrary to the Gazzetta
- Pg 76 claims no article 6 violations against Juventus and therefore introduces the structured article violation (much disputed by many legal entities) The reason this is so scandalous is because it attempts to convince the reader that a team (Juventus) was capable of obtaining a favorable position in the standings without fixing the results of a single game. My question is how? The only way to acquire points in the standings is by winning or drawing matches. If Juve didn’t fix any matches then the standings were legit right?
- Pg 83 CAF states that referee selections were done in accordance with the rules of the FIGC therefore all the phone calls made by Moggi to designer Bergamo were legal and altered no referee selections.
- Pg 101 CAF I’m sure you heard of Moggi’s yellow card system to ensure key players were suspended for upcoming matches against Juve. On this page the sentence declares that the yellow cards were not organized.
- Pg 65 CF claims that Moggi and Giraudo operated independently of Juventus and its owners. In other words the team should have been off the hook regarding relegation and only the two directors should have been on trial (that’s the little loophole that kept Milan in the CL)
- Pg 61 CF states that Juventus was not responsible for the salvation of Fiorentina after the De Santis influenced game between Lecce and Parma that finished in a tie allowing the Viola to survive Serie A
- Pg 66 CF states that though Moggi didn’t exercise his ability to condition games, he still possessed the ability. So since you have a car and a bottle of wine you could be tried for having the ability to drink and drive?
- Pg 74 CF admits that no proof of match fixing (article 6) exists.
- Pg 77 CF finally states the proof used against Juventus “Juventus’ advantage was evidenced by their position in the standings at the end of the season”. That’s right…they were guilty because they finished first. So you driving is proof of being a car thief too. Are you laughing yet?
CF Judge Piero Sandulli had an interview in “Il Giornale” on the 27th of July 2006 where he was asked what the reasoning was behind the sentence he approved. His response was “there was no illicit activity; the 2004-2005 season was not fixed. The only doubt we had was Lecce-Parma (didn’t concern Juventus or Moggi) which we looked at again and again (with no video…whatever). In any case the season was legitimate.” I’ll just add that Sandulli has a criminal record for fraudulent activity while at Rome’s City Hall and is a die hard Lazio fan.
CF Judge Mario Serio stated in an interview in “La Repubblica” on the 27th of July 2006 that “in spite of a lack of evidence regarding match fixing, Juventus were sentenced to Serie B and stripped of their titles after taking into consideration the collective interests of the parties involved in the investigation.” All of which happened to be Interista and not just from a fan point of view. See the facebook group to see who the key players in the investigation were and how they were tied to Inter.
Note that no wire taps were heard in court. That’s right. Only pieces of transcripts were used, transcripts that have been manipulated by those that provided them to the court (see facebook group because I don’t feel like re-writing the names and confessions).
Note that no video evidence was allowed to be used by the defense (see facebook videos)
Note no witnesses were allowed to be brought forth
Note that the defense had little more than 3 days to compile their arguments and that they were not presented with the evidence prior to the trial as opposed to what the law dictates…instead the press got a hold of the prosecution’s information first. Is it any wonder? Inter VP Carlo Buare owns la Gazzetta dello Sport and it is run by two major Inter Investors (Verdelli and Cannavo’) while il Corriere dello Sport is run by Bartolozzi (Inter Team Manager). There is more on this in the facebook writings.
This is a fraction of what is out there. This is why I lose my mind when I hear that Juve are “cheaters” or that Moggi is a “criminal”.
I’ll be happy to answer whatever questions I can and provide whatever else I can through email including the actual sentences if they interest anyone.
I’ll eventually be adding the TAR appeal which Juventus mysteriously retracted hours prior to going to court. The appeal was considered to be profound enough to clear Juve’s name and crush the system that governs Italian soccer. After the appeal was retracted the FIGC publically thanked Luce di Montezemolo (FIAT Director and Ferrari President). Month’s later the same Tronchetti owned Telecom Italia (that spied on Juventus) sponsored Ferrari SpA in Formula 1.
I agree but nothing can bring the lost 3 years back. They wanted to hurt Juve and they made it. If the standards were equal and for the other teams that involved to the scandal none wouldn't have problem, but all the system was against Juve and the punishment was stronger for Juve in comparison with the other teams involved.
gsol,
We're Juve fans just like you are.
We tried to find the truth about our club, but couldn't manage to find much in English. We never believed our club would do something like that, but we needed the proof to enforce our discussions with others. Hence, why you'll meet many people here who will doubt whatever you say until they comprehend it and be 100% sure and convinced with the evidences you gathered.
Again, thank you for your clear efforts to clear our club's image after all what happened, and please relax and take the discussions from fellow Juve fans as attempts to get the whole truth about our club.
Good luck.
We're Juve fans just like you are.
We tried to find the truth about our club, but couldn't manage to find much in English. We never believed our club would do something like that, but we needed the proof to enforce our discussions with others. Hence, why you'll meet many people here who will doubt whatever you say until they comprehend it and be 100% sure and convinced with the evidences you gathered.
Again, thank you for your clear efforts to clear our club's image after all what happened, and please relax and take the discussions from fellow Juve fans as attempts to get the whole truth about our club.
Good luck.
http://www.figc.it/italiano/comunic...ati_stampa_caf_2006/com_stampa_caf_luglio.htm
click on the document of 14/07/2006...it's the CAF sentence.
click on the document of 14/07/2006...it's the CAF sentence.
With other words, Calciopoli has taught us one thing...
The media own the country and who ever owns the media, owns the country too,
since the media were proven more influent/stronger than, government, justice system/laws and mafia put together...
There should be more/special laws and restrictions to bound the media's power...
The media own the country and who ever owns the media, owns the country too,
since the media were proven more influent/stronger than, government, justice system/laws and mafia put together...
There should be more/special laws and restrictions to bound the media's power...
You know, i love Juve so much that people around me started to worry about me. I follow every match, important, unimportant. I've been through Calciopoli and suffered like 99% of us here. I have no nails left after a Juve match ends.
So, please have this in mind before you call me anti-Juve because of what i'm going to ask you :
How do you explain all those calls in our favour in 2004/05 ? How do you explain 90% of the 50/50 calls going in our favour all the time ? Whenever we were suffering, the ref was there to help us with a dubious free-kick, penalty, offside goal.
The other big teams, especially Milan, were also getting this kind of help, but we can't turn a blind eye and pretend that Juve weren't the pet of the referees.
So, please have this in mind before you call me anti-Juve because of what i'm going to ask you :
How do you explain all those calls in our favour in 2004/05 ? How do you explain 90% of the 50/50 calls going in our favour all the time ? Whenever we were suffering, the ref was there to help us with a dubious free-kick, penalty, offside goal.
The other big teams, especially Milan, were also getting this kind of help, but we can't turn a blind eye and pretend that Juve weren't the pet of the referees.