Van der Vaart (7 Viewers)

[Cronios]

No matter who will play in our straight 4-4-2 formation, we will face creativity problems. This is not a balanced formation, it is a defensive formation, will less concentration, on going on forward.
A CM, instead of a DM, would be a great addition to our team and would slightly help our cause, bringing an alternative solution to penetrate a defense in an alternative way than the flanks, BUT it wont change our game that much.
A massive change would have been a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2 with a diamond in the middle, meaning a DM and an AMF like VDV.
That would be the first time we would use a playmaker since Zidanne's era.
One single player wouldnt be able to cope for the the whole season, Giovinco would fill all the gaps. I see an exceptional AMF in Giovinco, his pace allows him to play on the wings, but i still believe his natural position is in the center of the field, dictating a team's game! We will force him to adapt our needs and turn him to a new Neddy, instead of a new Baggio.
I ve always hoped that the return of Giovinco would bring this tactical change in our team. Make no mistake, we mostly suffer tactically now, not individually, our wingers are not bad players, neither our forwards. It is just the predictable nature of our formation and the awful support of our fullbacks that ruin the day.
The situation will not be dramatically changed if we go on with the same fullbacks and the same formation. Alonso will help a great deal, because he will give us the natural strengths we lacked, whilst using this formation. But against some certain defensive formations and teams, we will against face those unbearable walls we are used to...

 

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[neurosis21]

a 4-4-2 is not that creative its based on 2 solid central midfielders with 2 quick wingers to provide the creativity

 

[The Arif]

Smartass,we brought ranieri to change capello's system of 2 dm's as I remember.

If all the top teams can play with one or even without DM's why can't we?

I don't recall any team playing without DM's. In Italy, only Roma played with one DM. Real played a lot of games with Gago and Diarra, Arsenal have Fabregas, Manchester have Hargreaves and Carrick, Barca have Toure (and Keita now), Liverpool have Mascherano, Inter have a partnership of Vieira and Cambiasso and Milan have Gattuso and Pirlo (sometimes Ambrosini too).


EDIT: We can play with one DM, but not without DM. We need someone who can cover up for our mediocre defence.

 

[neurosis21]

i wouldnt call fabregas a DM,arsenal had flamini for that role,they use fabregas as a playmaker along with hleb

 

[The Arif]

i wouldnt call fabregas a DM,arsenal had flamini for that role,they use fabregas as a playmaker along with hleb

Yeah, forgot about Flamini.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Van Der Vaart was far of being impressive against Italy, at least 5 players on Netherland had a better game.

 

[sateeh]

No matter who will play in our straight 4-4-2 formation, we will face creativity problems. This is not a balanced formation, it is a defensive formation, will less concentration, on going on forward.
A CM, instead of a DM, would be a great addition to our team and would slightly help our cause, bringing an alternative solution to penetrate a defense in an alternative way than the flanks, BUT it wont change our game that much.
A massive change would have been a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2 with a diamond in the middle, meaning a DM and an AMF like VDV.
That would be the first time we would use a playmaker since Zidanne's era.
One single player wouldnt be able to cope for the the whole season, Giovinco would fill all the gaps. I see an exceptional AMF in Giovinco, his pace allows him to play on the wings, but i still believe his natural position is in the center of the field, dictating a team's game! We will force him to adapt our needs and turn him to a new Neddy, instead of a new Baggio.
I ve always hoped that the return of Giovinco would bring this tactical change in our team. Make no mistake, we mostly suffer tactically now, not individually, our wingers are not bad players, neither our forwards. It is just the predictable nature of our formation and the awful support of our fullbacks that ruin the day.
The situation will not be dramatically changed if we go on with the same fullbacks and the same formation. Alonso will help a great deal, because he will give us the natural strengths we lacked, whilst using this formation. But against some certain defensive formations and teams, we will against face those unbearable walls we are used to...

Thats a load of Bullshit. The players determine that not the system.

 

[tibike]

Thats a load of Bullshit. The players determine that not the system.

Exactly. Otherwise Arsenal would be a defensive team.

 

[vimo]

How the fck do you know that? Are you a coach or just a fucked up member on this forum that has an enormous need to get smart on every occasion?

a) you're not smart
b) you're not a footie coach
c) you do not watch football cuz If you watched the game yesterday at 20.45 you would see that VDV is exactly what we lacked this season and what we desperately need next season...that is,of course; if you did watched most of the Juve games till now

Smartass,we brought ranieri to change capello's system of 2 dm's as I remember.

If all the top teams can play with one or even without DM's why can't we?

you like to call people names don't you? well i'm not going on your level on conversation, but i'd just like to point out what senseless stuff you're trying to bring up. We brought ranieri to change capello's system? first of all, we didn't bring anybody to change anyone's system... there even was someone between those 2 (deschamps). have you forgotten WHY capello went away?
Anyway, let's forget it... because, as pointed out, i'm 'not smart', or at least not as smart as you. and you don't need to be a football coach to see that an AM (and vdv is a pure creative Attacking Midfielder / Playmaker) does not play near a sissoko. You're just forgetting that you need some people to defend too.... but hey, why do i care to explain these things anyway; everybody with some sense of football knows that - except you

anyway; you're welcome: http://www.goal.com/it/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=732000

 

[Boksic]

Van Der Vaart was far of being impressive against Italy, at least 5 players on Netherland had a better game.

Seriously, you didn't think that he had a good game?

IMO Van Der Vaart, Sneijder and Van Bronckhorst were Holland's best players!

EDIT: Add Engelaar to that list too!

 

[Kosta]

Boulahrouz had a great game too.

 

[Boksic]

i think its safe to say almost all of the Dutch team had a great game!!

but Van Der Vaart was excellent!

 

[Cronios]

Thats a load of Bullshit. The players determine that not the system.

You have the right to disagree but it is not bullshit.
Our straight 4-4-2 with the use of 2 DMs, lives no space for creativity,
comparing it to other, more offensive formations, you can clearly see the difference of what is expected from the players to do tactical wise.
The players have to listen adapt and comply with the coaches intention and their orders and role are pretty straightforward. Every formation has some certain limitations and for a team to work properly, the players need to follow the coaches plan.
The players and their efficiency of course determines the final result,
but in some certain levels, where the teams have similar material, even small tactical details can be decisive.
In higher level competition, the tactical selection of formations and type of players, determines the way a quality team will handle the match.
If you remember Capello's strong Juve, full of high quality players, was tactically owned from every English team of similar (and even slightly inferior) material.
The players alone couldnt do the difference there, our own tactics and formation convicted our chances.
If we had the same or similar players, using a different system/formation we would stand better chances.
The limitation of our system and the creativity problems were anticipated, we failed as expected, in the places we were supposed to fail, in the way we were supposed to fail, for the reasons we were supposed to fail.
It was so obvious, that me, Andy and other experienced problems here, could be able to predict it with details.
History proved our point anyway, at this level good players are not and at this moment, our players are not as good as they once were...
Tactics are more important than any other time. Juve and other Italian teams, have a long tradition of making the difference by those tactics!
Maybe in pro evolution and other football simulators, the better players are enough to guarantee victory, but not in real life...

 

[neurosis21]

the best dutch player was snjeider, VDV was good as well though

 

[BarkuZ-yes i am an ass]

I don't recall any team playing without DM's. In Italy, only Roma played with one DM. Real played a lot of games with Gago and Diarra, Arsenal have Fabregas, Manchester have Hargreaves and Carrick, Barca have Toure (and Keita now), Liverpool have Mascherano, Inter have a partnership of Vieira and Cambiasso and Milan have Gattuso and Pirlo (sometimes Ambrosini too).


EDIT: We can play with one DM, but not without DM. We need someone who can cover up for our mediocre defence.

If fabregas is DM than I'm a headless chicken......

And what about European champions when they fielded Scholes and Anderson in center?

You are mentioning Roma and Real that play 4-2-3-1 and in that formation one DM is needed.....

 

[tibike]

You have the right to disagree but it is not bullshit.
Our straight 4-4-2 with the use of 2 DMs, lives no space for creativity,
comparing it to other, more offensive formations, you can clearly see the difference of what is expected from the players to do tactical wise.
The players have to listen adapt and comply with the coaches intention and their orders and role are pretty straightforward. Every formation has some certain limitations and for a team to work properly, the players need to follow the coaches plan.
The players and their efficiency of course determines the final result,
but in some certain levels, where the teams have similar material, even small tactical details can be decisive.
In higher level competition, the tactical selection of formations and type of players, determines the way a quality team will handle the match.
If you remember Capello's strong Juve, full of high quality players, was tactically owned from every English team of similar (and even slightly inferior) material.
The players alone couldnt do the difference there, our own tactics and formation convicted our chances.
If we had the same or similar players, using a different system/formation we would stand better chances.
The limitation of our system and the creativity problems were anticipated, we failed as expected, in the places we were supposed to fail, in the way we were supposed to fail, for the reasons we were supposed to fail.
It was so obvious, that me, Andy and other experienced problems here, could be able to predict it with details.
History proved our point anyway, at this level good players are not and at this moment, our players are not as good as they once were...
Tactics are more important than any other time. Juve and other Italian teams, have a long tradition of making the difference by those tactics!
Maybe in pro evolution and other football simulators, the better players are enough to guarantee victory, but not in real life...

He claimed that 4-4-2 is generally a defensive system. Which it is not, as Arsenal plays it and they play offensive football. Thus 4-4-2 can be offensive, if desired. End of.

 

[Fred]

If fabregas is DM than I'm a headless chicken......

And what about European champions when they fielded Scholes and Anderson in center?

You are mentioning Roma and Real that play 4-2-3-1 and in that formation one DM is needed.....

Then Fabregas is a dm

 

[Mark]

VDV back in the mix hey?

Tiago + cash

 

[Lion]

behold:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=213ZMTmRaqE

 

[Luca]

van der vaart did a fart. He he