US citizens and bush (1 Viewer)

[WΏΏdy?]

u arrived 5 years and a month early to vote

altought a few countries r facing the music coz of bush, do u think U [ not speaking of US public] r also suffering coz of bush?

im just taking a kinda survey

 

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[ReBeL]

who wont help terrorists. the bastard.

Call me a terrorist as you want, but I'm proud I'm not stupid to have somebody like Bush to represent me...

 

[WΏΏdy?]

chill and try to have a civilized convo...

and i don't think he called u a terrorist

 

[ReBeL]

chill and try to have a civilized convo...

and i don't think he called u a terrorist

And what's the uncivilized convo I had??

 

[flieeeekke]

Call me a terrorist as you want, but I'm proud I'm not stupid to have somebody like Bush to represent me...

well you have a genius who says that a guy who kills innocent people is defending himself.

 

[ReBeL]

well you have a genius who says that a guy who kills innocent people is defending himself.

Nobody said that...

 

[swag]

hey you too swag tell me did u vote? for whom?

Not only did I vote, but my wife and I joined our neighbors in hosting a political fundraiser house party for the opposition, soliciting donations from the CEO of my company, etc., etc...

 

[WΏΏdy?]

good to hear that...

and where did all the fund go?










































:tongue:

 

[swag]

Actually, it was weird. We had to hold it before a certain cutoff date to go to the candidate's fund. Otherwise it would have to roll into the general party.

I may be a party kinda guy arty:, but not when it comes to politics...

 

[ReBeL]

swag,

How do you evaluate the jewish lobby's impact in USA??

 

[WΏΏdy?]

next year's elections will at least save you some effort...coz bush cannot fight again after completing his second tenure or does he have an equally stupid faggot ready to take over his place? i hope not....

 

[Enron]

u arrived 5 years and a month early to vote

altought a few countries r facing the music coz of bush, do u think U [ not speaking of US public] r also suffering coz of bush?

im just taking a kinda survey

Well of course the US public are suffering. The economy is still in a recession, the tax cut we were promised went right over our heads, gas prices are at an altime high due to price hiking. If you want an actual example of US citizens suffering under Bush's administration look no further than the Hurrican Katrina disaster.

 

[swag]

swag,

How do you evaluate the jewish lobby's impact in USA??

It is and it isn't.

Personally, I am kind of dumbfounded that we historically have had as strong a pro-Israeli stance as we had in government. Once the Cold War dissolved, the convenience of who was using who's weapons went away but things didn't change. I think much of the world has grossly underestimated how much the Cold War had to do with American policy towards the Middle East until the 1980s. Look -- we supported Saddam Hussein to begin with because of Cold War alliances.

Today it seems like a combination of anti-terrorist hawks and Christian religious kooks who want to bring about Rapture who constitute the core of any pro-Israeli stance in U.S. gov't -- certainly moreso than it seems like any Jews from inside the system (as many of the world's conspiracy theorists generally tend to believe).

But it's there, and the world threat of terrorism and its affiliation with radical Islam has only pushed more people over the fence.

 

[ReBeL]

It is and it isn't.

Personally, I am kind of dumbfounded that we historically have had as strong a pro-Israeli stance as we had in government. Once the Cold War dissolved, the convenience of who was using who's weapons went away but things didn't change. I think much of the world has grossly underestimated how much the Cold War had to do with American policy towards the Middle East until the 1980s. Look -- we supported Saddam Hussein to begin with because of Cold War alliances.

Today it seems like a combination of anti-terrorist hawks and Christian religious kooks who want to bring about Rapture who constitute the core of any pro-Israeli stance in U.S. gov't -- certainly moreso than it seems like any Jews from inside the system (as many of the world's conspiracy theorists generally tend to believe).

But it's there, and the world threat of terrorism and its affiliation with radical Islam has only pushed more people over the fence.

But it's not only a conspiracy theory from writers living abroad...

What do you say about what Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer said about that??

Here is an example:

"that the US has been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of Israel, that Israel is a liability in the "war on terror", that the biggest Israeli lobby group, Aipac (the American Israel Public Affairs Committee), is in fact the agent of a foreign government and has a stranglehold on Congress - so much so that US policy towards Israel is not debated there - and that the lobby monitors and condemns academics who are critical of Israel.

"Anyone who criticises Israel's actions or argues that pro-Israel groups have significant influence over US Middle East policy," the authors have written, "...stands a good chance of being labelled an anti-Semite. Indeed, anyone who merely claims that there is an Israeli lobby runs the risk of being charged with anti-Semitism ... Anti-Semitism is something no-one wants to be accused of." This is strong stuff in a country where - to quote the late Edward Said - the "last taboo" (now that anyone can talk about blacks, gays and lesbians) is any serious discussion of America's relationship with Israel."

And the full article is at:

http://counterpunch.com/fisk04272006.html

 

[Enron]

swag,

How do you evaluate the jewish lobby's impact in USA??

I wouldn't say there is much of a Jewish Lobby as far as the running of the government. If you look at our Congress and Government offices you will find few Jews.

The strength of the "Jewish Conspiracy" lies within the US's inability to end Cold War allegiances. If you can remember, at one time the US was allied with S. Vietnam's Diem, Iran, Irag, the Taliban, Isreal and a number of other "bad guys". The main reason for US support of Isreal is failure to realize that Cold War allegiences are not longer needed.

The Christian Right in our country is very pro-Isreal. Before Bush was in office the Clinton administration made strides toward peace in Isreal and even began to crack down on Isreali terrorism. Bush on the other hand has publicly claimed that "God appointed him to office". This should explain our current stance on Isreal.

 

[swag]

But it's not only a conspiracy theory from writers living abroad...

What do you say about what Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer said about that??

Here is an example:

"that the US has been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of Israel, that Israel is a liability in the "war on terror", that the biggest Israeli lobby group, Aipac (the American Israel Public Affairs Committee), is in fact the agent of a foreign government and has a stranglehold on Congress - so much so that US policy towards Israel is not debated there - and that the lobby monitors and condemns academics who are critical of Israel.

"Anyone who criticises Israel's actions or argues that pro-Israel groups have significant influence over US Middle East policy," the authors have written, "...stands a good chance of being labelled an anti-Semite. Indeed, anyone who merely claims that there is an Israeli lobby runs the risk of being charged with anti-Semitism ... Anti-Semitism is something no-one wants to be accused of." This is strong stuff in a country where - to quote the late Edward Said - the "last taboo" (now that anyone can talk about blacks, gays and lesbians) is any serious discussion of America's relationship with Israel."

And the full article is at:

http://counterpunch.com/fisk04272006.html

I'm really not much of a fan of these debates because they never go anywhere.

There is a pro-Israeli lobby in this country, no question, and it has influence. But I don't perceive it as pulling the puppet strings of government as some would have you believe. We have people who once claimed that Ronald Reagan was an an instrument of Pope John Paul II and was going to overturn the constitution with the Catholic Church. So I'm pretty jaded about this too.

It is true that the anti-Semite card (ironic, given that the Ethiopians are technically Semites as well) gets over-played a lot in this country as a way of cutting off discussion or disagreement. It is frustrating, but it's also frustrating for a lot of Jews too ... because it dilutes the meaning. But a bit of that is also true with the racist card here too.

As for academics in this country, we are in a place that perhaps holds academics with the lowest level of esteem in the civilized world. Our president is even openly hostile to academics. So that part of the argument doesn't hold much water for me.

 

[ReBeL]

I just wanted to know how the normal people think of that...

Thanks anyway, Swag and Enron

 

[Enron]

I just wanted to know how the normal people think of that...

Thanks anyway, Swag and Enron

Anytime.

 

[swag]

No problem, ReBeL. Everybody has a different opinion on this. Mine is just that the general U.S. government foreign policy stance towards Israel over the past 15 years has not veered this side of "irrational".

 

[Rami]

I'm really not much of a fan of these debates because they never go anywhere.

There is a pro-Israeli lobby in this country, no question, and it has influence. But I don't perceive it as pulling the puppet strings of government as some would have you believe. We have people who once claimed that Ronald Reagan was an an instrument of Pope John Paul II and was going to overturn the constitution with the Catholic Church. So I'm pretty jaded about this too.

It is true that the anti-Semite card (ironic, given that the Ethiopians are technically Semites as well) gets over-played a lot in this country as a way of cutting off discussion or disagreement. It is frustrating, but it's also frustrating for a lot of Jews too ... because it dilutes the meaning. But a bit of that is also true with the racist card here too.

As for academics in this country, we are in a place that perhaps holds academics with the lowest level of esteem in the civilized world. Our president is even openly hostile to academics. So that part of the argument doesn't hold much water for me.

And Arabs