UK Politics (47 Viewers)

[U Picciriddu]

Ok. I am going to bite ... wtf did you steal?

Cant disclose online bro.. but youre foreign too, you can imagine it.

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That doesn't mean you can't be racist.

It just means you lack conviction.

We are so racist that sometimes we say that we feel sorry for the true racists, we dont give them any room

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[swag]

and which data shows u that exactly? U can look on official UK site and this is what comes up from the statistics (https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...ity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2022-html):
Predicted probability of receiving a custodial sentence for a reference offender*, by offence and ethnicity (2018-2022).

So maybe its you who are dumb enough to still not understand that they actually commit more crimes and its there in the data?

Btw, I originally misspoke in that I meant to write illegal immigrants rather than just immigrants. Because in the U.S. the statistics do show that more illegals don't want to attract any more attention than they need on them.

But the odd thing here is we were talking about immigrants and instead you referenced a data chart about ethnicities. What this suggests is that ethnicity to you is a surrogate for immigration status. In other words: "I don't care if you're Caribbean or Asian or White and have lived in the UK for generations, what matters is your ethnicity when it comes to crime."

That's maybe indirectly related to immigration, but it's neither here nor there in the numbers. But what those numbers do directly address is ethnicity. Which is basically blowing any argument that this is much to do about immigration at all and more to do with racial profiles.

In other words: preserving a caste-like system of racism.

These days people throw around the 'racism' card so often that it's almost become meaningless. But in this context, it actually sticks.

 

[Scottish]

But the odd thing here is we were talking about immigrants and instead you referenced a data chart about ethnicities. What this suggests is that ethnicity to you is a surrogate for immigration status. In other words: "I don't care if you're Caribbean or Asian or White and have lived in the UK for generations, what matters is your ethnicity when it comes to crime."

That's maybe indirectly related to immigration, but it's neither here nor there in the numbers. But what those numbers do directly address is ethnicity. Which is basically blowing any argument that this is much to do about immigration at all and more to do with racial profiles.

Really salient points, I was thinking of this as well. We're an international group on the Tuz, people from all over. Would I and @U Picciriddu be more likely to commit crimes if we swapped countries? We'd both be immigrants so if immigrants commit more crime it would follow that statistically we would suddenly start doing them.

Or maybe not because we'd both be Europeans staying inside Europe. Is it only when people who are not white enter white societies suddenly get activated and turn into crime machines?

The logic is so thin. Thinly veiled claiming that certain races are predisposed to race. Even above with Akshen when given (acyailky when giving) data it's misinterpreted to back up a bigoted point of view with no basis in reality

 

[swag]

The race card is too much of a crutch, like calling someone fascist or, in the US, a liberal.

But I sincerely doubt sufficient soul-searching has been made as to whether the root of this is about immigration or more about ethnicity, or religion. (It feels odd saying 'religion' as an issue in a rather irreligious continent.)

Because if it's more of the latter and less of the former, the problems are rooted more in ethnic identity, racial makeup, and othering than it is about immigration policy. And if so, any attempted resolutions should better match the problem.

 

[U Picciriddu]

Really salient points, I was thinking of this as well. We're an international group on the Tuz, people from all over. Would I and @U Picciriddu be more likely to commit crimes if we swapped countries? We'd both be immigrants so if immigrants commit more crime it would follow that statistically we would suddenly start doing them.

Or maybe not because we'd both be Europeans staying inside Europe. Is it only when people who are not white enter white societies suddenly get activated and turn into crime machines?

The logic is so thin. Thinly veiled claiming that certain races are predisposed to race. Even above with Akshen when given (acyailky when giving) data it's misinterpreted to back up a bigoted point of view with no basis in reality

I said a few pages back that it’s in my opinion related to social/subcultural structures rather than ethnicity. So we could swap places but it depends on the environment you get in

I got a beautiful socialist answer back which was political perfectly correct but in my opinion doesn’t show the reality, at least not for the crime I’ve seen.

Depending on the crime most people do it because it’s cool, or because they’re lazy. Barely because crime is the only option or because they’re poor/isolated or whatever

To give a understandable answer, crime is way more accepted in the south than in the north of Italy. Same people, same country, different environments and cultures. So the problem lies within that. And before someone says ‘the south it poor’, yes it’s poorer but everyone there will tell you that you can easily work if you want to, so the economy usually becomes the excuse for a lifestyle some simply admire.

 

[Seven]

I said a few pages back that it’s in my opinion related to social/subcultural structures rather than ethnicity. So we could swap places but it depends on the environment you get in

I got a beautiful socialist answer back which was political perfectly correct but in my opinion doesn’t show the reality, at least not for the crime I’ve seen.

Depending on the crime most people do it because it’s cool, or because they’re lazy. Barely because crime is the only option or because they’re poor/isolated or whatever

To give a understandable answer, crime is way more accepted in the south than in the north of Italy. Same people, same country, different environments and cultures. So the problem lies within that. And before someone says ‘the south it poor’, yes it’s poorer but everyone there will tell you that you can easily work if you want to, so the economy usually becomes the excuse for a lifestyle some simply admire.

Lol.

It's just different types of crime, dude.

 

[U Picciriddu]

Lol.

It's just different types of crime, dude.

What would you know colonialist

 

[Seven]

What would you know colonialist

You may want to take up a course in Dutch history.

 

[swag]

I said a few pages back that it’s in my opinion related to social/subcultural structures rather than ethnicity. So we could swap places but it depends on the environment you get in

I got a beautiful socialist answer back which was political perfectly correct but in my opinion doesn’t show the reality, at least not for the crime I’ve seen.

Depending on the crime most people do it because it’s cool, or because they’re lazy. Barely because crime is the only option or because they’re poor/isolated or whatever

To give a understandable answer, crime is way more accepted in the south than in the north of Italy. Same people, same country, different environments and cultures. So the problem lies within that. And before someone says ‘the south it poor’, yes it’s poorer but everyone there will tell you that you can easily work if you want to, so the economy usually becomes the excuse for a lifestyle some simply admire.

Che regione?

 

[Boksic]

People take statistics far too much at face value. The table Akshen provided is interesting and shows differences but I'm not comvincec you can take too much from it without delving into the numbers.

Were the ethnicities with lower %s on average carrying a lower amount of weed than the high %? Were the ones with a higher % picked up in a region that is tougher on giving punishments or were they picked up in a region where law enforcement is better at building a legal case for punishment? Were the people jailed repeat offenders? Do people have a clean track record/family/respected job (factors a judge often considers)? What gender are they?

You can use statistics to argue whatever you want (on both sides) but if you do not have the full details it can lead to misjudgements.

 

[DutchJuventino]

In response to a soldier being killed by migrants at their border, Legia Warsaw unveil "refugees welcome" banner today depicting Polish men with a hammer and a baseball bat and a woman holding a pigs head. Chants of: "All of Poland sings with us, fuck off with the refugees."

Three weeks ago in Poland, Legia Warschau fans openly did this!!

It is the same in every country. Right-wing is winning because of the refugee issue. Every English dumbhead is rioting now, but i've to say. If stabbing incidents and terrorist attacks are that much in a country, it is just a result of the immigrants who can't behave themselves. I am not a right-wing voter, but I understand the problem and I see some worrying signs in the Netherlands aswell. We never have any problem with East and South-East Asians, but North Africans are overrepresented in the crime lists.

 

[swag]

People take statistics far too much at face value. The table Akshen provided is interesting and shows differences but I'm not comvincec you can take too much from it without delving into the numbers.

Were the ethnicities with lower %s on average carrying a lower amount of weed than the high %? Were the ones with a higher % picked up in a region that is tougher on giving punishments or were they picked up in a region where law enforcement is better at building a legal case for punishment? Were the people jailed repeat offenders? Do people have a clean track record/family/respected job (factors a judge often considers)? What gender are they?

You can use statistics to argue whatever you want (on both sides) but if you do not have the full details it can lead to misjudgements.

 

[DutchJuventino]

Were the ethnicities with lower %s on average carrying a lower amount of weed than the high %? Were the ones with a higher % picked up in a region that is tougher on giving punishments or were they picked up in a region where law enforcement is better at building a legal case for punishment? Were the people jailed repeat offenders? Do people have a clean track record/family/respected job (factors a judge often considers)? What gender are they?

You can use statistics to argue whatever you want (on both sides) but if you do not have the full details it can lead to misjudgements.

Possesion of weed is not a real crime in my opinion, it is illegal but more a personal problem. An attack/assault/burglary is far worse for the society. My girlfriend did several studies at the University about adolescence criminal law. People with a migration background were over 80% repeat offenders. Natives less than 50% or something. But to be fair that are guys between 14-18 years old, most of them already have no future because of their criminal path they took.

Edit: It was a study pure related to Dutch law and inhabitants.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

I said a few pages back that it’s in my opinion related to social/subcultural structures rather than ethnicity. So we could swap places but it depends on the environment you get in

I got a beautiful socialist answer back which was political perfectly correct but in my opinion doesn’t show the reality, at least not for the crime I’ve seen.

Depending on the crime most people do it because it’s cool, or because they’re lazy. Barely because crime is the only option or because they’re poor/isolated or whatever

To give a understandable answer, crime is way more accepted in the south than in the north of Italy. Same people, same country, different environments and cultures. So the problem lies within that. And before someone says ‘the south it poor’, yes it’s poorer but everyone there will tell you that you can easily work if you want to, so the economy usually becomes the excuse for a lifestyle some simply admire.

I've been told it's actually very difficult unless you know someone. That the unemployment rate in the South is like 14% sort of alludes to that being true as well tbh

 

[maxi]

Issue isnt so much that immigrants as a whole are more likely to commit crime, but certain groups of immigrants are far more likely to than the native population. The leading offenders in this category are namely Middle Eastern and sub-saharan African. You don't have to just look at the UK to realise this, but in almost every European country that has them. Take Sweden for instance.

 

[Mokku]

Nah, you need to look at the background of the people coming here and make an assessment. If they come from a worn-torn country, they will need mental health services. Bring them in if you can accommodate and give them the full service, or you will get such crimes. If you leave them to stew here, mental health only gets worse.

It's a difficult subject. People on dinghys should not be allowed to stay unless they have some sort of official application. Also, their smugglers should spend life in jail. So many young girls arrive here in debt and have no choice but to sell their bodies. It's a whole crime network itself.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj622z0w7n0o

Like I said before about shifting hate, these Eastern Europeans were attacked yesterday despite being White. Furthermore, lots of reports of foreign NHS staff being abused so even a skilled worker isn't tolerated. They'll never be satisfied.

 

[maxi]

Im not sure blaming crimes like rape on PTSD-related mental health issues is a great look tbh

 

[JuveJay]

Issue isnt so much that immigrants as a whole are more likely to commit crime, but certain groups of immigrants are far more likely to than the native population. The leading offenders in this category are namely Middle Eastern and sub-saharan African. You don't have to just look at the UK to realise this, but in almost every European country that has them. Take Sweden for instance.

Albanians have the heaviest presence in organised crime and therefore crime in general, with drug and people-smuggling rings. I'm absolutely certain of this, and it's a worldwide reach, not just within the UK.

 

[U Picciriddu]

I've been told it's actually very difficult unless you know someone. That the unemployment rate in the South is like 14% sort of alludes to that being true as well tbh

I’m talking from experience and knowing people

 

[swag]

I’m talking from experience and knowing people

I kind of concur with what @AFL_ITALIA said as to what I have heard. It's probably not as well known, but there are a lot of younger Italian immigrants in Portugal. A big part of the reason I hear from the emigrants is that there are no jobs back home (especially in the South) and that you have to either have a family member or some other connection to get reasonable employment.

So many come here and become pizza entrepreneurs. I'm not kidding. We have better pizza in Lisbon than I've had in most of Italy.

Don't get me wrong. There's a lot of crap delivery like Telepizza. But that's for the poor plebs.

https://www.tastingtable.com/1573082/best-pizza-lisbon-portugal/