The Wish List and General Discussion Thread (52 Viewers)

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Cirillo

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2009
3,034
Oh, looking at our own CONgress and group of elected officials here in the states, I could definitely see them being outsmarted by random people on the internet. :lol:

haha good point. People in high places have a long and illustrious history of making complete f*uck up's. For instance Juventus did appoint the post-it boy (secco) as our Transfer guru.
 

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Cirillo

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2009
3,034
If I were a big club and was aware that soon my funds will be restricted, I'd go crazy and sign as many good players as possible now. That's what I feel Chelsea is doing.
But unless you have figured out a way around the rule in the future isn't that a little short sited and negligent?
 
Apr 29, 2006
3,158
For do these Fair-Play rules even consist of?
To get to the point... Uefa FFR, Part 3, Chapter 2: Break Even Requirement
Then we have to go to Annex X, (B.) Relevant Income

Contributions from a related party may only be taken into consideration in the determination of the acceptable deviation (as defined in Article 61) as part of the assessment of the break-even requirement, as further described in part (D) of this annex.

Contributions from equity participants and/or related party(ies)
1. Acceptable deviation can exceed EUR 5 million up to the amounts described in Article 61(2) in a monitoring period only if such excess is entirely covered by contributions from equity participants and/or related parties.
2. Contributions from equity participants are payments for shares through the share capital or share premium reserve accounts. That is, investing in equity instruments in their capacity as shareholder.
3. Contributions from a related party include:
a) Capital contributions being a contribution by a related party: that is an unconditional gift made to the reporting entity by a related party which increase the reporting entity’s equity without any obligation for repayment or to do anything in consideration for receiving them. For example, a waiver of inter-company or related party debt constitutes a capital contribution, as it
results in an increase in equity; and/or
b) Income transactions from a related party: the amount to be considered as a contribution will be no more than an amount equivalent to the difference between the actual income in a reporting period and the fair value of the transaction(s) in a reporting period as already recognised in the calculation of the break-even result (see part B(1)(j)). The monies must have been received by the reporting entity, rather than just some form of promise or commitment from the related party.
4. The following types of transaction are not 'contributions from equity participants
and/or related parties’:
i) Positive movement in net assets/liabilities arising from a revaluation;
ii) Creation, or increase in the balance, of other reserves where there is no contribution from equity participants;
iii) A transaction whereby the reporting entity has a liability in that the entity has a present obligation to act or perform in a certain way;
iv) Contributions from owners in respect of instruments classified as liabilities.

AND

The definitions of related party, related party transactions and fair value of a related party transaction are provided in part (E) of this annex.

E. Related party, related party transactions and fair value of related party
transactions
1. A related party is a person or entity that is related to the entity that is preparing its financial statements (the 'reporting entity’).
2. A person or a close member of that person’s family is related to a reporting entity if that person:
a) has control or joint control over the reporting entity;
b) has significant influence over the reporting entity; or
c) is a member of the key management personnel of the reporting entity or of a parent of the reporting entity.
3. An entity is related to a reporting entity if any of the following conditions apply:
a) The entity and the reporting entity are members of the same group (which means that each parent, subsidiary and fellow subsidiary is related to the others);
b) One entity is an associate or joint venture of the other entity (or an associate or joint venture of a member of a group of which the other entity is a member);
c) Both entities are joint ventures of the same third party;
d) One entity is a joint venture of a third entity and the other entity is an associate of the third entity;
e) The entity is a post-employment benefit plan for the benefit of employees of either the reporting entity or an entity related to the reporting entity. If the
reporting entity is itself such a plan, the sponsoring employers are also related to the reporting entity;
f) The entity is controlled or jointly controlled by a person identified in paragraph 2; or g) A person identified in paragraph 2(a) has significant influence over the entity
or is a member of the key management personnel of the entity (or of a parent of the entity).
4. With reference to paragraphs 1 to 3 above, the following definitions apply:
a) Close members of the family of a person are those family members who may be expected to influence, or be influenced by, that individual in their dealings with the entity. They may include that person’s children and spouse or domestic partner, children of that person’s spouse or domestic partner, and dependants of that person or that person’s spouse or domestic partner.
b) Control is the power to govern the financial and operating policies of an entity so as to obtain benefits from its activities.
c) A joint venture is a contractual arrangement whereby two or more parties undertake an economic activity that is subject to joint control.
d) Joint control is the contractually agreed sharing of control over an economic activity, and exists only when the strategic financial and operating decisions
relating to the activity require the unanimous consent of the parties sharing control (the venturers).
e) Key management personnel are those persons having authority and responsibility for planning, directing and controlling the activities of the entity, directly or indirectly, including any director (whether executive or otherwise)
of that entity.
f) Significant influence is the power to participate in the financial and operating policy decisions of an entity, but is not control over those policies. Significant influence may be gained by share ownership, statute or agreement.
g) An associate is an entity, including an unincorporated entity such as a partnership, over which the investor has significant influence and that is neither a subsidiary nor an interest in a joint venture. In the definition of a
related party, an associate includes subsidiaries of the associate and a joint venture includes subsidiaries of the joint venture. Therefore, for example, an
associate's subsidiary and the investor that has significant influence over the associate are related to each other.
5. In considering each possible related party relationship, attention is directed to the substance of the relationship and not merely the legal form. The following
are not related parties:
a) Two entities simply because they have a director or other member of key management personnel in common or because a member of key management personnel of one entity has significant influence over the other
entity.
b) Two venturers simply because they share joint control over a joint venture.
c) Providers of finance, trade unions, public utilities, and departments and agencies of a government that does not control, jointly control or significantly influence the reporting entity, simply by virtue of their normal dealings with an entity (even though they may affect the freedom of action of an entity or participate in its decision-making process)
d) A customer, supplier, franchisor, distributor or general agent with whom an entity transacts a significant volume of business, simply by virtue of the resulting economic dependence.
6. A related party transaction is a transfer of resources, services or obligations between related parties, regardless of whether a price has been charged (disclosure requirements in respect of related parties and related party
transactions are set out in Annex VI).
7. A related party transaction may, or may not, have taken place at fair value. Fair value is the amount for which an asset could be exchanged, or a liability settled, between knowledgeable willing parties in an arm’s length transaction. An arrangement or a transaction is deemed to be 'not transacted on an arm’s length basis’ if it has been entered into on terms more favourable to either party to the arrangement than would have been obtained if there had been no related party relationship.

And lastly, but NOT LEASTLY:
Relevant Income
...
k) Income from non-football operations not related to the club
The income (and expenses – see part C(1)(k)) of non-football operations only needs to be excluded from the calculation of relevant income if it is clearly and exclusively not related to the activities, locations or brand of the football club, in which case it must be excluded.
Examples of activities that may be reported in financial statements as nonfootball operations but for the purposes of the calculation of relevant income and expenses would not normally need to be adjusted include:
• Operations based at, or in close proximity to, a club’s stadium and training facilities such as a hotel, restaurant, conference centre, business premises (for rental), health-care centre, other sports teams; and
• Operations clearly using the name/brand of a club as part of their
operations.

============================

Yeah, it is a bit long for the forum, I admit, but these are the "official rules " ....
I just want to point out what a joke they are. If UEFA can catch a club bending these rules, they can pretty much catch any transaction in the world of finance that bears difference between actual and written value... Good Luck Mr. Michel Tax-me. The sheer amount of man power for such an audit is WW2 scale and the will of personnel to pursue such an endeavour is lower.
An owner that spends close to half a billion on his boat in a single year can surely come up with a way to spend some of those money on people wanting to take them. But hell - let's complete the joke and put a salary cap on players and staff... ohhh wait - maybe mr. Plati-mi (pay-me in bulgarian) was saving this part of the speech for the time he is reelected already. :shifty:
 
Apr 29, 2006
3,158
As I said when FFP was first announced, you'll be seeing Goldman Sachs financial terrorists being employed by clubs in the future.
100% Agreed.

Not that it goes any way different now. When does a club stop operations today? -> When the owner says " No more dough!".; 20 years ago? -> Same thing.
How does the cash come there - Neapolitan mobsters or ponzi schemes - nobody cares and nobody will.
 

chester

Too busy to bother
May 20, 2006
15,055
btw
im moving to belgum next mont
so thw firt thing im going to do is watch an anderlech match :D
:tup:

Chelsea seems very interested, Abrahamovichs Israeli guy is a FIFA-agent and close to Neymar. Apparentely they took the liberty to meet up with him when he was in London for the game.
Chelsea seems interested in everything, Aguero, Lukaku, Neymar.
Damn Abramovitch
Andy, grow up :p
 

Fint

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2010
19,354
So if Neymar is out of contention because of Bastos, you could only assume that he is going to be our left winger for next season right? It's only March and already I'm depressed about next season. I only hope there is some truth to the rumours that we have contacted Dzsudzsak's people, not holding my breath though
 
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