The off topic thread (8 Viewers)

[rounder]

Congratulations for what? Knowing where Lebanon is located?
Is it safe to say that even if every American knew where your country was located, you still would hate us?

For the tenth time , i don't hate you , i don't hate your people , i hate your government . So please stop taking all this so personally , and think of it from a non- american point of view .

Yes i do congradulate you , very rarely do i meet Americans that even know lebanon exists do thats a plus for you .


actually , yes it is safe to say that , i don't hate the American government because most of its people don't know where my country is , i hate it because it's responsible for the deaths of so many innocent livesfor the sake of petrol , and some people wonder why suicide bombers exist .

 

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[Vinman]

I'll make it really easy for you. There's one big difference between us.

I say: 'Vinman, I hate you, because ... '

You say: 'Seven, I hate you'

Do you get the point?

But to get back to my original point: people like Vinman, IMHO, are extremely dangerous when handed some sort of power. In this case Vinman's power is his ability to vote. You see, Vinman has had the power to help elect George W Bush twice. He's one of the million people responsible for what you could easily call a scandal.

There are two answers to this. Either you say not everyone can vote and people have to have a certain degree of intelligence or you say everyone can vote and you take the blow afterwards. I tend to go for option number one. I'd like to think that anyone who would want to have the right to vote should be able to tell you how candidates think about certain issues. In other words, you'd have to show some sort of political intelligence.

If you knew anything about politics and the American system, then you'd know the electoral college put Bush in office, and not my particular vote...not to mention that I live in a democratic state that usually votes that way, and not republican

I have much more than voting power...I have the power to takes peoples freedom away, and their lives if I deem necessary...that must have you pulling out your hair, doesnt it ?

You arent as smart as you think...all the reading you do counts for squat, because your major defect is that you lack common sense...and if you dont know what that is, google it and find out

If we had your "system" of voting, I'd be afraid you wouldnt make the grade, and could not vote

I have yet to meet an American who knows where my country is located

I know where your country is located, and I'm sure Burke, Swag and Andy do as well...

talk about ignorance

 

[rounder]

I know where your country is located, and I'm sure Burke, Swag and Andy do as well...

talk about ignorance

before you talk about ignorance i suggest you think before you post , when i say i have yet to meet an american ..i mean that the monority if Americans know where other countrys are in the rest of the world .. i can't blame them though afterall they did vote for Goerge W.bush . And talking about ignorance you just based the entire American public opinion on 4 people you know from a juventus forum .

I think you're too inflated with American pride that you don't even recognize what your country does to the rest of the world . I know many Americans who are against their governement and are intelligent enough to know how flawed and disrupted this government really is . But what can i say , i don't expect all Americans to be realistic and objective towards their own government , afterall , you would have to be intelligent to do that .

I honestly hope you swallow some of your American pride and actually think as a human and not as an American citizen , I know I'm asking the impossible but it's worth a shot . Afterall , it took 7 years for the American public to realize bush is a retard , maybe it would take you less time .

 

[Bjerknes]

1- Well you actually said it yourself , by not supplying Israel with weapons ....
They can end it so easilly , They have the power to , so why not ? instead they let thousands of people suffer every day ..

PURE bullshit, dude. You seriously think that if the United States government stops supporting Israel, the whole problem will disappear and the Middle East will live in harmony? Like I stated before, this struggle in the Middle East has been one of the banes to humanity long before the United States even became a nation. If the United States does cease to support Israel, the only thing that will happen is the IDF will be less capable of warding off attacks by Hamas and others, which means the violence will continue. I think it's incredily narrow-minded and even ignorant to suggest the United States holds the key to stopping this perpetual struggle.

The only result that achieves peace in the region is the destruction of Israel. That's why I say stop supporting Israel and let them destroy each other.

4-
Yes Blame Humanity for killing thousands of civillians in Iraq for petrol . Americans elected bush and re-elected him , so please don't tell me it wasn't America's fault , it was bush's fault .

I've stated Bush and the US government is to blame for Iraq, an obvious conclusion. However, my point is that the human race is inherently greedy, so no matter what nation is top dog, they will have people running them for no other reason than personal gain. Moreover, fairly or not, citizens of other nations will hate them.

You could argue that the United States is the big bad wolf of the world and the only possible wolf, but I'd suggest you refrain from doing so. Nationalities are false boundries when discussing HUMAN traits.

2-If thinking that lets you sleep at night , go for it !

Jews do play a major role in our nation, however they don't "run" the country. They do have a big influence in politics, but that's quite obvious.

3-
America have the most technically advanced weapons in the world yet they can't even get a decent voting system .
All humanity naturally greeds ? So your telling me it's okay for America to go in and destroy weaker and poorer nations because ... hey that's humanity .
Out of all the excuses ive ever heard this has to be the dumbest .

It's not an excuse, but to combat your apparent loathsome generalizations regarding America, it must be said that any race or people is capable of committing atrocities. I'm just fucking sick and tired of people who love to generalize and commit their entire life to combat supposed atrocities that were committed by the United States, when even their nation has made the same mistakes. When you state Americans are ignorant, you are saying I am ignorant, which is entirely not the case. When you go on and on about America being the bane to the world, you are forgetting that it's not just the United States who have their hands in the cookie jar.

Yes, George Bush is a terrible President, the United States have committed many atrocities and many Americans know fuckall about the world. That's the truth, not these worthless generalizations.

 

[Zé Tahir]

lol, it's funny seeing some of the American members here trying to find an excuse for why people do not know their geography and why the rest do. Let me just site some personal examples here that I've experienced over the past few years living here.

Once when I visited here someone asked my brother where we were from and he said "Sweden", to which he replied... "oh cool, what state is that in?"

When I moved here I told people I had come from Sweden to which they always said "Oh Switzerland? Nice!"

People always ask me what language is spoken in Sweden, they always say "Swedian?"

A kid in the eight grade asked me where I was born to which I replied "Nairobi, Kenya" and he started to laugh. I thought he was thinking "The kid doesn't look African so ha-ha-ha" so I said "yea yea, but it's true.." and he started to laugh again and he said "there's no country such as 'Kenya' ha-ha-ha"

In high school a Nicaraguan friend of mine told this girl that he was from Central America to which she said "oh cool, is that like by Utah or something?" He decided to seize the moment and convinced her that they spoke "monkey" in Nicaragua...which she believed until he couldn't hold it anymore and busted out laughing.

In a class I took in 12 grade; "Asian Studied" a girl was shocked to find out that there were in fact 2 atomic bombs dropped on Japan during WWII.

 

[Bjerknes]

before you talk about ignorance i suggest you think before you post , when i say i have yet to meet an american ..i mean that the monority if Americans know where other countrys are in the rest of the world .. i can't blame them though afterall they did vote for Goerge W.bush . And talking about ignorance you just based the entire American public opinion on 4 people you know from a juventus forum .

I think you're too inflated with American pride that you don't even recognize what your country does to the rest of the world . I know many Americans who are against their governement and are intelligent enough to know how flawed and disrupted this government really is . But what can i say , i don't expect all Americans to be realistic and objective towards their own government , afterall , you would have to be intelligent to do that .

I honestly hope you swallow some of your American pride and actually think as a human and not as an American citizen , I know I'm asking the impossible but it's worth a shot . Afterall , it took 7 years for the American public to realize bush is a retard , maybe it would take you less time .

It's posts such as these that make me sick. Yes, I know full well about the atrocities my country has committed, and I'm certainly not going to bite my lip when it comes to blasting Bush for essentially murdering thousands of people, even our own. But what I will not stand for are these little "intelligence" jibes towards Americans that people such as yourself love to throw around. You seem to love talking down to Americans, something I can understand. If you have not met an American that is intelligent, who can blame you for having that opinion?

But in all actuality, such an opinion that is simply a stereotype makes a person no better than the imbeciles in my country who do not care about the rest of the world. Many people in this country need a serious brain transplant, but so do others across the globe.

 

[Bjerknes]

lol, it's funny seeing some of the American members here trying to find an excuse for why people do not know their geography and why the rest do. Let me just site some personal examples here that I've experienced over the past few years living here.

Once when I visited here someone asked my brother where we were from and he said "Sweden", to which he replied... "oh cool, what state is that in?"

When I moved here I told people I had come from Sweden to which they always said "Oh Switzerland? Nice!"

People always ask me what language is spoken in Sweden, they always say "Swedian?"

A kid in the eight grade asked me where I was born to which I replied "Nairobi, Kenya" and he started to laugh. I thought he was thinking "The kid doesn't look African so ha-ha-ha" so I said "yea yea, but it's true.." and he started to laugh again and he said "there's no country such as 'Kenya' ha-ha-ha"

In high school a Nicaraguan friend of mine told this girl that he was from Central America to which she said "oh cool, is that like by Utah or something?" He decided to seize the moment and convinced her that they spoke "monkey" in Nicaragua...which she believed until he couldn't hold it anymore and busted out laughing.

In a class I took in 12 grade; "Asian Studied" a girl was shocked to find out that there were in fact 2 atomic bombs dropped on Japan during WWII.

Wow, my Lord, that is such convincing evidence. All Americans are idiots.

 

[rounder]

PURE bullshit, dude. You seriously think that if the United States government stops supporting Israel, the whole problem will disappear and the Middle East will live in harmony? Like I stated before, this struggle in the Middle East has been one of the banes to humanity long before the United States even became a nation. If the United States does cease to support Israel, the only thing that will happen is the IDF will be less capable of warding off attacks by Hamas and others, which means the violence will continue. I think it's incredily narrow-minded and even ignorant to suggest the United States holds the key to stopping this perpetual struggle.

The only result that achieves peace in the region is the destruction of Israel. That's why I say stop supporting Israel and let them destroy each other.



I've stated Bush and the US government is to blame for Iraq, an obvious conclusion. However, my point is that the human race is inherently greedy, so no matter what nation is top dog, they will have people running them for no other reason than personal gain. Moreover, fairly or not, citizens of other nations will hate them.

You could argue that the United States is the big bad wolf of the world and the only possible wolf, but I'd suggest you refrain from doing so. Nationalities are false boundries when discussing HUMAN traits.




Jews do play a major role in our nation, however they don't "run" the country. They do have a big influence in politics, but that's quite obvious.



It's not an excuse, but to combat your apparent loathsome generalizations regarding America, it must be said that any race or people is capable of committing atrocities. I'm just fucking sick and tired of people who love to generalize and commit their entire life to combat supposed atrocities that were committed by the United States, when even their nation has made the same mistakes. When you state Americans are ignorant, you are saying I am ignorant, which is entirely not the case. When you go on and on about America being the bane to the world, you are forgetting that it's not just the United States who have their hands in the cookie jar.




Yes, George Bush is a terrible President, the United States have committed many atrocities and many Americans know fuckall about the world. That's the truth, not these worthless generalizations.

First off , respect for acknowledging the truth .. something not many people can do .

I never meant to generelize , to say all Americans are ignorant would be such an idiotic thing to say , and i never said that . All i said was the fact the American people elected bush , not once but twice has to say something about them .

Here's the other thing . You seem to think the reason the world hates America is because it is the most powerful nation in the world . That just simply isn't not true . I for one judge America (the government) by its actions and not by its superiority in power . Personally , i'm not very impressed by what the greatest nation on earth has given to the rest of the world .

The only significant thing bush has ever done since his presidency was inflict wars on other countrys , I at least expected that the Ameican public would wake up and see what an idiot this guy is , and what do they do ? they re-elect him . I am only judging the pro-bush Americans , the American governement , and ofcourse bush . You seem like your anti-bush so im not judging you at all .

 

[Zé Tahir]

Wow, my Lord, that is such convincing evidence. All Americans are idiots.

I never said that, I've lived here long enough to know that's not true. I was simply trying to prove that most people in this country don't have a clue about what's going on in the rest of the world or what has happened for that matter. And I can't stand to see people in here trying to find an excuse for it; just admit that it's true and move on. I read all the arguments made as to why Greece was not as important to locate on the map as it is to locate New Jersey because it's closer. That just didn't make sense to me. Then someone claimed that Belgium and Greece are close to each other in the same sentence lol.

 

[rounder]

It's posts such as these that make me sick. Yes, I know full well about the atrocities my country has committed, and I'm certainly not going to bite my lip when it comes to blasting Bush for essentially murdering thousands of people, even our own. But what I will not stand for are these little "intelligence" jibes towards Americans that people such as yourself love to throw around. You seem to love talking down to Americans, something I can understand. If you have not met an American that is intelligent, who can blame you for having that opinion?

But in all actuality, such an opinion that is simply a stereotype makes a person no better than the imbeciles in my country who do not care about the rest of the world. Many people in this country need a serious brain transplant, but so do others across the globe.

Bold part :
You , not Vinman .

Im talking down to Americans who think the rest of the world are ignorant garbage , and anything that may offend his country should be hit with a nuclear bomb . Infact ive many quite a few amricans that are intelligent , its the overwhelming stupidity of the unintelligent ones that gets to me .

 

[Bjerknes]

First off , respect for acknowledging the truth .. something not many people can do .

I never meant to generelize , to say all Americans are ignorant would be such an idiotic thing to say , and i never said that . All i said was the fact the American people elected bush , not once but twice has to say something about them .

Many people also tend to forget that a vote is a vote for themselves, meaning that they vote so their interests are protected. Many people voted for Bush the second time around due to his supposed passion for protecting the country. While this might be rather stupid considering the nation is probably no safer than it was in 1999, people still voted this way because they believe it was necessary.

Anybody that votes is voting for their own interest, whether it be for the Lebanese government, anywhere in Europe, anywhere on the earth. So I pose a question to you... would you vote for a candidate that has committed atrocities across the world but would serve to protect you and you family better than another candidate?

I'm not trying to protect the idiot Bush or the idiots who voted for him. I'm just trying to make sense of the issue. You cannot expect people to not vote for their own interests... everybody in the world votes for themselves and makes decisions based on their interests, not just Americans.

Here's the other thing . You seem to think the reason the world hates America is because it is the most powerful nation in the world . That just simply isn't not true . I for one judge America (the government) by its actions and not by its superiority in power . Personally , i'm not very impressed by what the greatest nation on earth has given to the rest of the world .

Oh, not at all. I know many hate the States because of the lives this country has taken, as they have a right to do. But many, even some of those who live in this country, hate us because we are a successful nation and they are jealous their home could not reap the benefits that we do here.

And in history, have you been impressed with any "great" nation and what they have given to the world? This is exactly my point.

 

[rounder]

Many people also tend to forget that a vote is a vote for themselves, meaning that they vote so their interests are protected. Many people voted for Bush the second time around due to his supposed passion for protecting the country. While this might be rather stupid considering the nation is probably no safer than it was in 1999, people still voted this way because they believe it was necessary.

Anybody that votes is voting for their own interest, whether it be for the Lebanese government, anywhere in Europe, anywhere on the earth. So I pose a question to you... would you vote for a candidate that has committed atrocities across the world but would serve to protect you and you family better than another candidate?

I'm not trying to protect the idiot Bush or the idiots who voted for him. I'm just trying to make sense of the issue. You cannot expect people to not vote for their own interests... everybody in the world votes for themselves and makes decisions based on their interests, not just Americans.



Oh, not at all. I know many hate the States because of the lives this country has taken, as they have a right to do. But many, even some of those who live in this country, hate us because we are a successful nation and they are jealous their home could not reap the benefits that we do here.

And in history, have you been impressed with any "great" nation and what they have given to the world? This is exactly my point.

answer to your question :

ok , so you're saying bush was re-elected because he offered safety to America , and we all know that didn't work out , his re-election only caused the death of American soldiers in Iraq , if anything inflicting wars on other nations would make America more dangerous and not safer by giving an extra motive or reason for terrorist bombings to take place in America .

The American public should have known his traits and policies before they re-elected him , bush was always known as an idiot , how can an idiot protect his nation from terrorist attacks ? How could a nation like America not realize this ?

Personally , i would vote for a president who has to offer peace which in return is the safest option to any nation . bush can't offer that .
That's why canada is without a scratch . This ofcourse is in my best interests .

Secondly , a president who is intelligent enough to lead my country . bush can't offer that .

now , have i been impressed with a great nation ?
well , in the time that i have lived through , no i haven't . America has been in control for a long time . What you're saying may have some truth to it , i think it is possible for someone to envy or become jealous form America because of what it has to offer and this in return will generate hatred .

Most of the people that do hate America probably hate it for what it has done . That to me is more logical , i personally hate the bush government not because i envy America in any way but because of America's actions to the rest of the world .

 

[Alen]

Seven, i didnt get your point about the geography knowledge. What if people in Europe have superior knowledge about geography than the Americans ? (i'm not going anywhere with this, i'm just curious what's the point. Oh, and i didn't read all the posts here so i might have missed it)

Until i was in 7th grade and the war started, i lived in Yugoslavia, a country that was an eastern european power at the time. Just like in other eastern European countries the educational system really sucked. We learned about everything, but really everything. After the reforms in educational system, when we took more from the West, i found out that the things we've previously learned in elementary school are too complicated even for university students who didn't pass through eastern EU edu system.

In geography classes we had like a separate class for every single country. We were forced to learn where is it located, capital, main cities, main rivers, mountains. We were given homeworks after every class and many tests during the year.
It's now normal that we know and we will always know where are the countries in the world located, but what's the use of it ?

I fail to see why is it important that big majority of people in Europe can locate Estonia and most of the Americans can't ?

 

[Seven]

As a generalization, I would agree with that statement. But two things:

1. Of course Europeans are going to know where Greece is more than Americans do. Forgetting even common political, sports, and other constructs they share in common with Greece, they're even practically in the same time zone -- unlike Americans. Maybe Utah isn't on the same world political level of Greece, but I bet you (without supporting data) Americans have a much better geographic sense of where Mexico is relative to Europeans. But that doesn't tell us anything, really.

2. As a general rule, American geographical knowledge is pretty piss poor. It's not something that's required or emphasized much in the educational system, nor typically in practical matters of life. But I'd be curious to see some comparative data here.

Europeans have been conditioned over generations to look to near borders for language and cultural rifts, international economic ties, and the potential for military harm or alliance in defense. Most Americans have lived in the luxury of isolationism. I partly suspect that it oddly puts the geographical awareness of the average Chinese citizen in similar territory for similar reasons (though with different causes/roots).

I myself don't know anyone who doesn't know where Mexico is, but you could even be right on that one.

The bold part is my main concern.

Alen, this is why I think geography matters. I'm not going to debate whether or not globalisation is at a historic high these days, but I think we can all agree that in this day and age people are never isolated from the rest of the world. What I mean with that is that something that happens in Australia can have an effect on America. Europeans indeed have been conditioned though.

Not to mention that in most cases it tells you something about the general knowledge of people. Geography might not be that important in se, but it does help you realise what your position in the world is. If you only know about the USA, your vision will no doubt be clouded. It's like Vinman believing Italian Americans are actual Italians.

 

[Seven]

If you knew anything about politics and the American system, then you'd know the electoral college put Bush in office, and not my particular vote...not to mention that I live in a democratic state that usually votes that way, and not republican

I have much more than voting power...I have the power to takes peoples freedom away, and their lives if I deem necessary...that must have you pulling out your hair, doesnt it ?

You arent as smart as you think...all the reading you do counts for squat, because your major defect is that you lack common sense...and if you dont know what that is, google it and find out

If we had your "system" of voting, I'd be afraid you wouldnt make the grade, and could not vote

I don't know if you realise it, but you have already criticised me for reading twice in the last two pages. I don't know if you find my intelligence intimidating, but I find it rather odd to think of reading as a bad thing.

I don't know if you fully realise what a vote means, Vin. No, your particular vote didn't put George Bush in office. That's correct. But it was one of many that did. States don't sovereignly decide which candidate they're going to vote for. Their citizens do.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Seven, i didnt get your point about the geography knowledge. What if people in Europe have superior knowledge about geography than the Americans ? (i'm not going anywhere with this, i'm just curious what's the point. Oh, and i didn't read all the posts here so i might have missed it)

Until i was in 7th grade and the war started, i lived in Yugoslavia, a country that was an eastern european power at the time. Just like in other eastern European countries the educational system really sucked. We learned about everything, but really everything. After the reforms in educational system, when we took more from the West, i found out that the things we've previously learned in elementary school are too complicated even for university students who didn't pass through eastern EU edu system.

In geography classes we had like a separate class for every single country. We were forced to learn where is it located, capital, main cities, main rivers, mountains. We were given homeworks after every class and many tests during the year.
It's now normal that we know and we will always know where are the countries in the world located, but what's the use of it ?

I fail to see why is it important that big majority of people in Europe can locate Estonia and most of the Americans can't ?

It makes a big difference. It's not a matter of "Oh you know the capital of Chile, here have a cookie". It's a matter of knowing your surroundings and simple facts about them that gives you credibility in worldly matters. You've probably never had to strike an argument with someone about why the US is the best place when the person doesn't even know what Scandinavia is. You simply can't keep a conversation about a serious topic with someone who doesn't know simple facts and take him seriously. Then if you have someone who's the leader of a country, and not just any country, but the leader of the most powerful nation in the world, who doesn't know that there are black people in Brazil or that thinks there is a "President" of Pakistan; doesn't that bother you? It's the simple and small things that matter sometimes (considering it's small to you apparently).

 

[rounder]

Seven, i didnt get your point about the geography knowledge. What if people in Europe have superior knowledge about geography than the Americans ? (i'm not going anywhere with this, i'm just curious what's the point. Oh, and i didn't read all the posts here so i might have missed it)

Until i was in 7th grade and the war started, i lived in Yugoslavia, a country that was an eastern european power at the time. Just like in other eastern European countries the educational system really sucked. We learned about everything, but really everything. After the reforms in educational system, when we took more from the West, i found out that the things we've previously learned in elementary school are too complicated even for university students who didn't pass through eastern EU edu system.

In geography classes we had like a separate class for every single country. We were forced to learn where is it located, capital, main cities, main rivers, mountains. We were given homeworks after every class and many tests during the year.
It's now normal that we know and we will always know where are the countries in the world located, but what's the use of it ?

I fail to see why is it important that big majority of people in Europe can locate Estonia and most of the Americans can't ?

I agree , there is actually no importance it's only a question of respect . If everyone in estonia knew where America was , why shouldn't they know where estonia is ? are they better than estonia ? no they aren't . So many people seem to categorize people according to their country and i find that very annoying .

If the world recognized America , America should recognize the other countries , simple as that .

I long to see the day when people are no longer judged or categorized according to their nationality , beliefs , and race . This day , sadly , will never come .

 

[Seven]

It's posts such as these that make me sick. Yes, I know full well about the atrocities my country has committed, and I'm certainly not going to bite my lip when it comes to blasting Bush for essentially murdering thousands of people, even our own. But what I will not stand for are these little "intelligence" jibes towards Americans that people such as yourself love to throw around. You seem to love talking down to Americans, something I can understand. If you have not met an American that is intelligent, who can blame you for having that opinion?

But in all actuality, such an opinion that is simply a stereotype makes a person no better than the imbeciles in my country who do not care about the rest of the world. Many people in this country need a serious brain transplant, but so do others across the globe.

You put your finger on it. That's exactly the problem. There are just as many stupid people in America as in any other country. Let's face it, a good deal off the population is made of utter retards. That's how it is.

BUT some countries seem to do better than others in educating these idiots. I firmly believe that yes, there are lots of idiots across the globe, but they can be educated. There's no reason to remain stupid, unless it's medical. And till this day it's not proven that Americans in general have a lower IQ.

 

[Seven]

I agree , there is actually no importance it's only a question of respect . If everyone in estonia knew where America was , why shouldn't they know where estonia is ? are they better than estonia ? no they aren't . So many people seem to categorize people according to their country and i find that very annoying .

If the world recognized America , America should recognize the other countries , simple as that .

I long to see the day when people are no longer judged or categorized according to their nationality , beliefs , and race . This day , sadly , will never come .

Bürke puts Utah on the same level as Greece. That tells you everything.

 

[Seven]

...I have the power to takes peoples freedom away, and their lives if I deem necessary...that must have you pulling out your hair, doesnt it ?

I hate to cut off your little victory parade here, but you decide squat, Vin. You embody the law. If the law deems it righteous to take away a life, you take away a life. You don't get to decide whether it's just or not. You follow rules.