The...I want this player to Juve thread (60 Viewers)

[Fred]

That was my main point. He did have a great season but that's it for now. He may be among the best or be the best one day (although i don't expect him to become one) but for now he's just a boy who had one single great season.
Apparently, for Osman it was enough to proclaim him the best LB in the world.

Just like Flamini was one of the best 3 DMCs in the world after a great season with Arsenal. If a poll in xtratime was started last year after Arsenal-Milan, Flamini would've been among the top3 DMCs.

The talent is there to be seen and most of the time 1 or 2 matches are enough to see if someone has the potential to be great. But it can be done with talents like Messi, Kaka or Ronaldo.
With guys like Clichy, who are only 23 and play LB, it's not all that easy to make a successfull prediction.
I predict he'll lose it as time goes one while you see him as one of the best. Now we can argue as much as we want but only time will tell.

I don't know why your bringing Flamini into this every now and then. Flamini was a talentless fuck who all of a sudden became a revelation.

Clichy has been improving steadily for the past 3 years, its not like he was a one season wonder, because the year we got 4th place (2006-2007) he was also one of our top performers.

It is plain obvious that he's a top fullback, he's fantastic defensively and rather good offensively. Defensively it is near impossible to beat him, he is one of the fastest players in the game and his anticipation is second to none. His end product should improve and his positioning allows too many crosses in the box, other than that he doesn't have any glaring deficiencies to his game. You havent pointed out any at least.

And just the fact that you suggested that Grosso is better than Clichy makes me conclude that either you haven't seen Grosso play in the Ligue or your extremely underrating Clichy. But then again i do remember you saying that you don't watch much EPL, so i'm guessing that all this has more to do with you not watching Clichy enough.

 

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[Osman]

He repeatedly keeps bringing in Flamini because he has no argument of why Clichy is average, so he uses Flamini as show and tell of sweeping generalising Arsenal players being average, like the players arent individuals of varying qualities, but just one entity one player can represent.

He doesnt want to be spefic about whats not quality about Clichy (He has NOT once said anything specific about Clichy, but just said stereotypical general catch phrases that have been repeated), but just say he is overrated by association with Flamini, because its the simple thing to do when your only interest is to say Clichy is average and worse then Grosso and the likes, no matter what. His reluctance to say anything specific tells me he hardly watches Clichy.

 

[Fred]

But Grosso?? Seriously Grosso?? I'm almost offended, Grosso has been made to look like a fool by the better wingers of the Ligue. FFS he once got taken out in halftime because of how much Goufran ran circles around him.

Grosso?? I am almost offended.

 

[Alen]

Only time wont tell obvious crap like Grosso, Maxwell and such are NOT better then him. Only time will tell is such a copout most of the time, even if it can be valid too.

But Grosso?? Seriously Grosso?? I'm almost offended, Grosso has been made to look like a fool by the better wingers of the Ligue. FFS he once got taken out in halftime because of how much Goufran ran circles around him.

Grosso?? I am almost offended.

Oh, boy.

Seriously, listen to yourselves.
Crap like Grosso that brought a world cup to his country. Crap like Maxwell that's been playing very well and is irreplaceable for Inter, both under Mourinho and Mancini. Some kid born yesterday, with one solid season under his belt, suddenly became the world's best LB?
Didn't Vargas also play great last year? Wasn't he serie A best LB last year?
Let Clichy prove himself first before you even dare comparing him to Zambrotta or Abidal or Lahm or Evra or Maxwell. These guys won so much, they're winning consistently and they've proven that they can represent a team/national team at the highest level for few years now.

And i brought Flamini into discussion, for the same reason i brought Ljungberg, Henry, Vieira, Lauren, Ashley Cole etc. To tell you that sometimes a certain tactic and certain playing style makes a player much better than he really is (without doubting the greatness of one Henry or Vieira, who really were the best in the world).
I'm not mentioning this as a proof that Clichy will also fail somewhere else, but as a proof that a certain play style makes some players look better than they are.

Fred is obviously overrating Clichy as a fan, but Osman's stubborness is hard to understand.

 

[v1rtu4l]

How many journalists, that write about football, have you come across that say they prefer cricket?

i'm talking about commentators of football matches ... many of them get not only the names wrong, but say an attacker is a defender, that they do not play for the NT because they are in poor form (remember that comment on trezeguet last season where he ended with 20 goals) ... i mean if they commentate football games but don't have a clue its obvious they gotta like other sports and have to do football matches because it's their job.

for some it is really as if it is only a job to be a commentator of sports ... they probably get one small paper of statistics about the match before it and then just talk trash because they have no clue.

 

[Osman]

Really weak and repetetive post, not one to talk about stubborness.

 

[Alen]

Really weak and repetetive post, not one to talk about stubborness.

Fine, then you tell me them why is Clichy the best LB in the world (or second best at least).

I think he's not great in anything. Good he is, but not great in anything. That's why i don't put him on the same level with Zambro, Evra, Lahm or Abidal.

 

[Fred]

Oh, boy.

Seriously, listen to yourselves.
Crap like Grosso that brought a world cup to his country. Crap like Maxwell that's been playing very well and is irreplaceable for Inter, both under Mourinho and Mancini. Some kid born yesterday, with one solid season under his belt, suddenly became the world's best LB?
Didn't Vargas also play great last year? Wasn't he serie A best LB last year?
Let Clichy prove himself first before you even dare comparing him to Zambrotta or Abidal or Lahm or Evra or Maxwell. These guys won so much, they're winning consistently and they've proven that they can represent a team/national team at the highest level for few years now.

And i brought Flamini into discussion, for the same reason i brought Ljungberg, Henry, Vieira, Lauren, Ashley Cole etc. To tell you that sometimes a certain tactic and certain playing style makes a player much better than he really is (without doubting the greatness of one Henry or Vieira, who really were the best in the world).
I'm not mentioning this as a proof that Clichy will also fail somewhere else, but as a proof that a certain play style makes some players look better than they are.

Fred is obviously overrating Clichy as a fan, but Osman's stubborness is hard to understand.

1) Clichy did not only have one good season.

2) I don't care if Grosso did well in a World cup that was played 2 years ago for 6-7 matches or so. But i watch him week in week out for Lyon and he isn't half as good as you make him out to be. He's made to look average by many a winger, ask anyone who watches the Ligue.

3) You mentioned a few fullbacks and said that they have won trophies consistently. Then i tell you that so has G.Neville. in fact G.Neville has won as much trophies as all those you mentioned combined. So you should mention him the next time your talking about fullbacks.

4) Again your assuming that Clichy is been made to look good by our tactical setup or whatever it is you like to call it, yet you still haven't told us what you think he lacks, your comparing fullbacks on what they've won or if they represent their national teams(a logic that would make Amauri one terrible player), yet you have failed to tell us what it is you think he lacks. Your just talking too generally.

5) I think its safe to say that i am not a biased at all to my teams players, i think a quick peek on the EPL thread would show you that

 

[Fred]

And for the record Alen, i don't think that Clichy is the best in the world, not even the second best for that matter, but i do believe he's among the best.

 

[Alen]

yet you have failed to tell us what it is you think he lacks. Your just talking too generally.

I told you, he lacks greatness. He's not great in anything, he's just ok. Defensively solid, attacking-wise average.
I said that he's at least on the same level with Maxwell, Grosso and some others, or slightly worse. I never called Maxwell or Grosso great. They are also LBs who are very solid but far from being great or the best in the world.

 

[Alen]

And for the record Alen, i don't think that Clichy is the best in the world, not even the second best for that matter, but i do believe he's among the best.

Oh, so you're not this guy :
http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showpost.php?p=6716514&postcount=3519

Because he voted for Clichy as world's best LB.

If it's not you then sorry.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Besides me, who else doesn't want Gallas?

 

[Badass J Elkann]

aye me

 

[The Curr]

Besides me, who else doesn't want Gallas?

Me!

 

[Fred]

Oh, so you're not this guy :
http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showpost.php?p=6716514&postcount=3519

Because he voted for Clichy as world's best LB.

If it's not you then sorry.

no it is me, and i admit guilt to voting for Clichy. But really i dont think of him as the best leftback in the world, that goes to Lahm who isnt in that list for some reason.

 

[v1rtu4l]

no it is me, and i admit guilt to voting for Clichy. But really i dont think of him as the best leftback in the world, that goes to Lahm who isnt in that list for some reason.

so you lied on that vote.... shame on you !

do i understand you right, that you think lahm is the best leftback ?

 

[Alen]

so you lied on that vote.... shame on you !

He obviously didn't lie. He thinks Lahm is the best and Lahm wasn't an option to vote for.

But i can conclude that he thinks Clichy is the second best LB in the world, which is still a huge overrating

 

[v1rtu4l]

i don't want to argue about clichy here, because i did not see him enough to say anything about him, but if lahm was the best fullback or even leftback, than it would be a sad sad sad statement for football.

 

[Mark]

where are those stats again? I wanna see Friedrich's.

 

[Marceℓℓo]

where are those stats again? I wanna see Friedrich's.

http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/spieler/698/friedrich-arne/default/2008/leistungsdaten.html

15 games,1 assist&1yellow.