The History Thread (10 Viewers)

Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
#41
From the side of the Atlantic Ocean.
From the other side, from the Bering Strait, people moved from Asia to America much before the Vikings stepped on American soil.
Don't we all assume we're speaking of recorded history when we speak of these things? Of course people crossed the bering strait but that didn't really go down on paper.
 

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JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,444
#42
No, it was the Chinese, if you discount the indigenous people already there.
In the early 15th century, maybe before southern Europeans but well after the Vikings by hundreds of years.

From the side of the Atlantic Ocean.
From the other side, from the Bering Strait, people moved from Asia to America much before the Vikings stepped on American soil.
Of course, although I read the question as those coming across the Atlantic.

you know history is mostly lies, you'll never know who got there first

like this story I heard once about the first man to climb mount Everest, they say he had local boys serving him in his mission, who kept going up and down the whole time for his needs, which means those people did it a million times before he came
Of course they would have, we are talking about recorded events. Although having said that I don't see the requirement for locals to get to the very summit of Everest and risking their lives for any other reason than the fact they can.
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,552
#43
Here is a question:

The word Mother. A word probably as old as the developed ability to speak. Basic word. In every single language there is a word for mother, right? It's not a word that you borrow from other languages.

In the Germanic languages it's: Mother, Mutter, Moeder, Mor, Modir.
In the Romance languages: Madre, Mare, Mere, Mae, Mama.
In Slavic languages: Mati, Mat, Matka, Maika, Matzi.
In Baltic languages: Mate, Motina.
In Celtic: Mhathair, Mam.
In Greek: Mitera
In Persian: Madr
In Armenian: Mayr
In Hindi and Punjabi: Ma, Maji, Mai, Mataji.

Obviously, the word has the same origin and it's the same ancestor who first came with this word. When such a word like mother is pronounced the same or similarly, then you can't make a mistake. And of course, these are Indo-European languages so it's not strange that a basic word like mother is pronounced almost the same.


Now, using the linguistics, through such words like mother, father, Sun etc you can connect some dots and find common ancestors for some people.

My question is....The native Americans....What were the words or the word they had for "mother" and does anyone here know (I guess the Americans might) if you can move on the other side of the Bering Strait and hear the same pronunciation of the word mother in Asia?
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,552
#45
Actually, I just quickly read into it. The general opinion is that language developed only about 13000 years ago. People communicated before, like all animals do, but they were unlikely to have had anything like structured language. It was only when humans settled down from being hunters gatherers into agricultural communities that language developed. The Paleoamericans moved from Asia to America around the same time, or even earlier, so their language probably developed independently from those in northeast Asia.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,444
#46
I know very little native American although I did look at Sioux for a while because of its use of fixes and overall complexity. 'Maka Ina' is quite well known in Sioux as 'Mother Earth', 'Ina' being mother.

Modern Mandarin has very Indo-European variations of 'mama' and 'papa' (ma/pa), and that is the same for many of the south and south east Asian languages, loan words perhaps.

Looking around at other variants in native Americas language such as Cherokee (aluli), Mayan ('na), Inuktitut (aama) Choctaw and Chickasaw (sashki, gaho), there is little connection but possibly loan words from Indo-European languages.
 
Apr 12, 2004
77,165
#47
Actually, I just quickly read into it. The general opinion is that language developed only about 13000 years ago. People communicated before, like all animals do, but they were unlikely to have had anything like structured language. It was only when humans settled down from being hunters gatherers into agricultural communities that language developed. The Paleoamericans moved from Asia to America around the same time, or even earlier, so their language probably developed independently from those in northeast Asia.
Don't tell this to the Religious.
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,552
#49
I know very little native American although I did look at Sioux for a while because of its use of fixes and overall complexity. 'Maka Ina' is quite well known in Sioux as 'Mother Earth', 'Ina' being mother.

Modern Mandarin has very Indo-European variations of 'mama' and 'papa' (ma/pa), and that is the same for many of the south and south east Asian languages, loan words perhaps.

Looking around at other variants in native Americas language such as Cherokee (aluli), Mayan ('na), Inuktitut (aama) Choctaw and Chickasaw (sashki, gaho), there is little connection but possibly loan words from Indo-European languages.
You're a linguist?
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,444
#50
An amateur really, I flit from one thing to another, too many interests. I speak four or five languages ok and can stumble along in others, maybe when I am 40 I'll be better off.
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,552
#51
An amateur really, I flit from one thing to another, too many interests. I speak four or five languages ok and can stumble along in others, maybe when I am 40 I'll be better off.
:tup:

How old are you? Are you studying anything right now or did you finish uni?
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,444
#52
I'm 27, I didn't go to university but I continued to study locally until I was 20 and then went to Japan to study for a while, I've been working for most of the last 5 years in CAD. Ideally I will be able to move around more in the next couple of years.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,228
#54
Here is a question:

The word Mother. A word probably as old as the developed ability to speak. Basic word. In every single language there is a word for mother, right? It's not a word that you borrow from other languages.

In the Germanic languages it's: Mother, Mutter, Moeder, Mor, Modir.
In the Romance languages: Madre, Mare, Mere, Mae, Mama.
In Slavic languages: Mati, Mat, Matka, Maika, Matzi.
In Baltic languages: Mate, Motina.
In Celtic: Mhathair, Mam.
In Greek: Mitera
In Persian: Madr
In Armenian: Mayr
In Hindi and Punjabi: Ma, Maji, Mai, Mataji.

Obviously, the word has the same origin and it's the same ancestor who first came with this word. When such a word like mother is pronounced the same or similarly, then you can't make a mistake. And of course, these are Indo-European languages so it's not strange that a basic word like mother is pronounced almost the same.


Now, using the linguistics, through such words like mother, father, Sun etc you can connect some dots and find common ancestors for some people.

My question is....The native Americans....What were the words or the word they had for "mother" and does anyone here know (I guess the Americans might) if you can move on the other side of the Bering Strait and hear the same pronunciation of the word mother in Asia?
Do bear in mind that "ma" is one of the easier things to pronounce. Perhaps this plays a role too.
 
OP
Fred

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #55
    I have a bachelor's degree in History, but I am currently studying Law. Unfortunately I'm not really familiar with the subject you posted here though..

    You didn't specialize in a specific time period/era in college, did you?

    You're currently studying law? As in, you're going for another bachelors degree? Why did you do that? if you don't mind me asking


    Fred, what do these words mean? Winds?
    Yes the first one means a type of strong wind. The second word means "seasonal"

    In the early 15th century, maybe before southern Europeans but well after the Vikings by hundreds of years.


    Of course, although I read the question as those coming across the Atlantic.


    Of course they would have, we are talking about recorded events. Although having said that I don't see the requirement for locals to get to the very summit of Everest and risking their lives for any other reason than the fact they can.
    If the Chinese first reached the American continent in the 15th century, then the Muslims got there before them for sure.

    I don't know why, but the general assumption in the paper is that Christopher Columbus discovered America, so the purpose of the paper was actually to prove that the Arabs got there before Christopher Columbus. Nowhere does the paper talk about other peoples voyages to America(other than Columbus).
     

    Alen

    Ѕenior Аdmin
    Apr 2, 2007
    52,552
    #56
    Do bear in mind that "ma" is one of the easier things to pronounce. Perhaps this plays a role too.
    Sure, but you also have:

    Germanic: Sun, Sonne, Zon, Sol
    Romance: Sole, Soleil, Soare, Sol
    Slavic: Sunce, Sonce, Solnce, Slunce, Slnko, Slonce, Slnce, Sonca
    Baltic: Saule

    While in Persian the word is khor-sheed which already implies that they were already divided from the above mentioned and that sun is a newer word than mother. The English mother and the Persian madr are way too similar to be just a coincidence.
     

    Zé Tahir

    JhoolayLaaaal!
    Moderator
    Dec 10, 2004
    29,281
    #57
    Sure, but you also have:

    Germanic: Sun, Sonne, Zon, Sol
    Romance: Sole, Soleil, Soare
    Slavic: Sunce, Sonce, Solnce, Slunce, Slnko, Slonce, Slnce, Sonca
    Baltic: Saule

    While in Persian the word is khor-sheed which already implies that they were already divided from the above mentioned and that sun is a newer word than mother. The English mother and the Persian madr are way too similar to be just a coincidence.
    In Urdu it's Suraj.
     

    Ramin

    vBookie Champion
    Nov 18, 2003
    4,728
    #58
    While in Persian the word is khor-sheed which already implies that they were already divided from the above mentioned and that sun is a newer word than mother. The English mother and the Persian madr are way too similar to be just a coincidence.
    There are two words for sun in Persian - khorsheed & aftab.

    And mother in Persian is madar, not madr.
     

    blondu

    Grazie Ale
    Nov 9, 2006
    27,404
    #60
    so here goes another subject when you are getting bored of moms :D: the bibles are an historic artifact? did those pergaments that are the foundation of the bible as we know it were tested with carbon 14? do we know the date when those pergaments were written?
     

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