The Financial Situation (23 Viewers)

[singus]

What the hell is this.

Agnelli and Massimiliano in an open race on who will bring us to Serie B first

 

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[Scottish]

Sorry if this article in Forbes from a week or so ago has already been posted:

Of the Juve deals, the Danilo-Joao Cancelo swap with Manchester City and the Arthur-Miralem Pjanic exchange with Barcelona. The latter of those saw Barca sign Pjanic for €60 million ($67.84m) and Juve get Arthur for €72m ($81.4m), which effectively means the only money that changed hands was the €12m difference.

Except it wasn’t. That’s because, for accounting purposes, an incoming player has their transfer fee spread out over the length of their new contract (known as amortisation), while the fee for a player being sold is immediate income.

So if a club buys a player for $80 million and signs him to a four-year contract, the outgoing fee becomes an $80 million asset on the books. That value then decreases by $20 million per season, so if they then sell that player for $50 million after three years, they generate a $30 million profit.

That means that despite just a €12 million ($13.54m) difference in the values of Pjanic and Arthur, the deal with Barca generated a plusvalenza of €41.8 million ($47.26m). With Pjanic failing to register a single goal or assist before being loaned to Turkish side Besiktas and Arthur notching one goal and no assists, ESPN’s Sid Lowe assessed the deal absolutely perfectly when he wrote that “the accountancy is more creative than the midfielders are.”

Is that it? Firstly the value of players is a projection and is always a bit of a gamble. It's not Juve's fault that a guy like Artur, if you believe he will turn good, might have a price tag of 72m. That's the impact of all this money on modern football: it has ruined it. And if the amount being scrutinised was 30k instead of 30m nobody would care.

Also this 'creative accounting' is nothing new. The classic 'loan with obligation' is a way to spread payments out as long as possible to make the balance sheets look better. I fucking hate modern football and would love something big be done to stop all the runaway spending and somehow for it to return to being primarily a sport and not a business, but it's just typical that we'd be the ones to be held up as some kind of scapegoat again, eh.

Edit: ohh nice little logo emojis when links are posted. Nice touch, Tuz

 

[mondo1]

I don't know but I highly doubt plenty of clubs in Serie A do what we did with those listed transfers. Had it been different we'd be seeing their name on the list too.

Just looking at those transfers it's just hilarious and sad at the same time. Who else does that? I might be wrong but I was not aware of it.

Well obviously it’s also Genua but also napoli Lazio Roma have done it for years. Chievo did it to get a license to remain in Serie a so its common practice I’d say. Especially when you look at swap deals and youth players. I guess we took it to another level though


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[s4tch]

Sorry if this article in Forbes from a week or so ago has already been posted:



Is that it? Firstly the value of players is a projection and is always a bit of a gamble. It's not Juve's fault that a guy like Artur, if you believe he will turn good, might have a price tag of 72m. That's the impact of all this money on modern football: it has ruined it. And if the amount being scrutinised was 30k instead of 30m nobody would care.

Also this 'creative accounting' is nothing new. The classic 'loan with obligation' is a way to spread payments out as long as possible to make the balance sheets look better. I fucking hate modern football and would love something big be done to stop all the runaway spending and somehow for it to return to being primarily a sport and not a business, but it's just typical that we'd be the ones to be held up as some kind of scapegoat again, eh.

Edit: ohh nice little logo emojis when links are posted. Nice touch, Tuz

what do you mean by "is that it"?

those price tags in the pjanic-arthur deal always looked inflated. and that's the main argument of the investigation too. but good luck proving the bad intent. unless one or more of our highly regarded managers told something stupid on the phone, i don't think juve risks too much. if they did, then we're probably fucked, despite this type of deal being a common practice.

what is astonishing is that inda is not even investigated.

 

[mondo1]

I have no idea about the outcome, but it was clear to me in the past years that Marotta but mainly Paratici abused doing this practice. Juventus did seem to do it more than other clubs. And let's remember this doesn't clear the losses, it just postpones it.

That doesn’t really matter it’s on overstatement of your asset side and that’s the illegal part of it, as it gives investors / shareholders a wrong impression about your value.


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[Durden]

what do you mean by "is that it"?

those price tags in the pjanic-arthur deal always looked inflated. and that's the main argument of the investigation too. but good luck proving the bad intent. unless one or more of our highly regarded managers told something stupid on the phone, i don't think juve risks too much. if they did, then we're probably fucked, despite this type of deal being a common practice.

what is astonishing is that inda is not even investigated.

this

 

[s4tch]

okay, this is funny:
https://milano.corriere.it/notizie/...to-8f925b2e-3c66-11e7-bc08-57e58a61572b.shtml

there are multiple presidents to codacons since they are led by a "collegio di presidenza". there's one guy i posted about earlier, who posted that rant when we signed cr. and there's an other guy who said earlier that they should file a complaint to the prosecutors and ask for a demotion and some titles revoked. the article is about the latter guy who fails to pay for the cantine of his daughter for like a decade and these people have important positions in italy

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dunno who this bellinazzo guy is, but he's not talking rubbish. he says that the rules have to be changed, because it is a systematic problem that can't be solved with investigations. juve used the capital gains to settle the accounts, but it's not illegal since there's no price list for footballers.

exactly. that's why every previous similar investigation ended without penalties.

 

[Fab Fragment]

okay, this is funny:
https://milano.corriere.it/notizie/...to-8f925b2e-3c66-11e7-bc08-57e58a61572b.shtml

there are multiple presidents to codacons since they are led by a "collegio di presidenza". there's one guy i posted about earlier, who posted that rant when we signed cr. and there's an other guy who said earlier that they should file a complaint to the prosecutors and ask for a demotion and some titles revoked. the article is about the latter guy who fails to pay for the cantine of his daughter for like a decade and these people have important positions in italy

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dunno who this bellinazzo guy is, but he's not talking rubbish. he says that the rules have to be changed, because it is a systematic problem that can't be solved with investigations. juve used the capital gains to settle the accounts, but it's not illegal since there's no price list for footballers.

exactly. that's why every previous similar investigation ended without penalties.

Makes me feel better after reading your post.
This whole case feels like the flimsy case Ceferin made against us.
Regardless, we need to start putting our ship in order, starting from the admin / management. Tici has turned out to be worse than Secco. At least Secco didn’t harm us with shady dealings like this jerk Tici did. Thank God he's gone.

 

[JCK]

okay, this is funny:
https://milano.corriere.it/notizie/...to-8f925b2e-3c66-11e7-bc08-57e58a61572b.shtml

there are multiple presidents to codacons since they are led by a "collegio di presidenza". there's one guy i posted about earlier, who posted that rant when we signed cr. and there's an other guy who said earlier that they should file a complaint to the prosecutors and ask for a demotion and some titles revoked. the article is about the latter guy who fails to pay for the cantine of his daughter for like a decade and these people have important positions in italy

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dunno who this bellinazzo guy is, but he's not talking rubbish. he says that the rules have to be changed, because it is a systematic problem that can't be solved with investigations. juve used the capital gains to settle the accounts, but it's not illegal since there's no price list for footballers.

exactly. that's why every previous similar investigation ended without penalties.

In the end they will say thst only Juve will get punished because they created the system while the others followed only.

 

[Valerio.]

Codacons are clowns nobody in Italy takes them seriously.

 

[s4tch]

...This whole case feels like the flimsy case Ceferin made against us...

this narrative is getting some traction, but i don't think at all ceferin is as powerful that he can make the italian sports juridical system start to wiretap juve. and he also didn't have any reason to fight agnelli before the super league was announced. i'm just speculating here, but i think it's an usual italian investigation which can quickly turn into a witch hunt when juve is involved. the same happened with the doping allegations in the mid-'90s, the bookkeeping investigation around '03-04, then calciopoli

 

[Badass J Elkann]

We’re talking about plusvalenza fraud. But on a side note attacking Beppe to make Tici look good really makes you look stupid, since pretty much everything started going south for Juve as soon as he left, and his Inter is doing well considering the financial hole they are in.

it was already going south when Marotta was handing out stupid contracts to khedira, costa and matuidi, spending a bucket load on Higuain and bringing back bonucci, only really saw the effects of his actions after he left.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

it was already going south when Marotta was handing out stupid contracts to khedira, costa and matuidi, spending a bucket load on Higuain and bringing back bonucci, only really saw the effects of his actions after he left.

How convenient. And how many years did Tici have to fix it? Instead he made it worse.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

https://www.france24.com/en/20180913-serie-club-chievo-deducted-three-points-fined-false-accounting
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-italy-fines-idUKL1827017320080618

We cant even afford a points deduction this season

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How convenient. And how many years did Tici have to fix it? Instead he made it worse.

Google will tell you when those players I mentioned left.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

We cant even afford a points deduction this season

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Google will tell you when those players I mentioned left.

 

[Ronn]

it was already going south when Marotta was handing out stupid contracts to khedira, costa and matuidi, spending a bucket load on Higuain and bringing back bonucci, only really saw the effects of his actions after he left.

Yeah I guess you and I have a different definition of going south. Looking at the table will help you.
BTW I'm no fan of bonucci but swapping him with Caldara has worked really great.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Yeah I guess you and I have a different definition of going south. Looking at the table will help you.
BTW I'm no fan of bonucci but swapping him with Caldara has worked really great.

Caldara Bonucci swap was just sheer luck. Before his injury Caldara was arguably one of Italy's best defensive prospects.

 

[Ronn]

Caldara Bonucci swap was just sheer luck. Before his injury Caldara was arguably one of Italy's best defensive prospects.

Luck or not it worked well. Listing it as a failure is nonsense.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Luck or not it worked well. Listing it as a failure is nonsense.

and the rest.

 

[Ronn]

and the rest.

Costa was a bad deal, and so was Bernardeschi, and Khedira extension. But hardly as bad as most of Tici masterpieces. Even with those suboptimal deals the team was still competitive.