The Financial Situation (55 Viewers)

[Post Ironic]

Lived in Edmonton for 5 years. I went to UofA at the time. Now I'm in Calgary

They should buy Edmonton FC. I can coach.

Albertans...

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[italiacalcio10]

Blog on Football-Italia about Vidal and selling him for the money mentions the possibility of us going bankrupt in 2 years.

Dave Taylor said:


Website he provided was: http://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/JVTSF--Probability-Of-Bankruptcy

Not sure if serious...

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@Bjerknes, any idea?

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It almost seems like a joke.

My guess is it probably takes into consideration the club's working capital balance considering it has a number of payables to other parties. The thing is that only becomes an issue if all the payables had to actually be settled in the near term which is definitely not the case. By other metrics like total financial leverage (Debt to EBITDA), interest coverage, it is fine.

I've gone through the company's financials. They are fine. They can comfortably service company debt and the financial losses are declining each year.

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Just looking at the Juventus FC SpA financials, we have a current ratio (current assets/current liabilities) of 0.38. A current value below 1 means that there might be some short-term liquidity issues, meaning that if the debts came due today we could be in trouble. The quick ratio is rather low as well, which isn't surprising. All the other financial ratios are rather poor as well, and if we weren't a football club, I would be very worried.

But we are a football club after all, so of course we have a lot of leverage and debt since we don't have free access to capital from a single wealthy owner. Nobody invests in football clubs because the expected return is so low, which is why our stock price is trading for cents. Debt has increased year-over-year for several years, but so have the value of our assets, so that at least is a good sign.

I think the author of the article (or the article he mentioned) probably used only financial ratios to come up with the 75% conclusion, which are not always accurate unless some context is placed on them. Especially for football clubs. I would only be worried if we continue to fail in the Champions League and somehow lose half of our stadium-going fans.

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And this is why I have concerns over Marotta's transfer policy of structured deals with loans and options to buy since he is essentially using expected cash flows based on future performance to fund deals on skeptical players. But these expected cash flows aren't based on any tangible discount rate, only that we hope to increase revenue through more sales of tickets and TV rights and Champions League funding. But none of that is guaranteed by any means.

I agree. It's definitely calculating that probability based on its working capital/liquidity position. On a solvency basis the company is fine. Debt to EBITDA is fine and a lot of annual expenditures are discretionary (ie: transfers). The company definitely has liquidity facilities in the case of the need for emergency short term cash.

On the share price, I'd imagine one the worst culprits of the poor performance are share issuances.

 

[Bjerknes]

I agree. It's definitely calculating that probability based on its working capital/liquidity position. On a solvency basis the company is fine. Debt to EBITDA is fine and a lot of annual expenditures are discretionary (ie: transfers). The company definitely has liquidity facilities in the case of the need for emergency short term cash.

On the share price, I'd imagine one the worst culprits of the poor performance are share issuances.

That is true, of course. I tried finding a few other ratios on some of the finance sites because I didn't want to calculate them. Did you calculate the debt to EBITDA by yourself or is there a website that has all the ratios? Definitely not trying to access financial statements at this time of night after my work earlier.

Even if the firm needs some short-term cash to cover debts that come due, I'm pretty sure with their assets they could secure a loan of some sort through money markets. It's not like the club has limited revenue or no assets to use as collateral.

 

[italiacalcio10]

That is true, of course. I tried finding a few other ratios on some of the finance sites because I didn't want to calculate them. Did you calculate the debt to EBITDA by yourself or is there a website that has all the ratios? Definitely not trying to access financial statements at this time of night after my work earlier.

Even if the firm needs some short-term cash to cover debts that come due, I'm pretty sure with their assets they could secure a loan of some sort through money markets. It's not like the club has limited revenue or no assets to use as collateral.

I calculated it a few months ago and it was ok (I think ~4.0x IIRC). I work in investment management (high yield corporate bonds) so at my job we have a few tools like Capital IQ and the Bloomberg Terminal that put the financials in excel. When I calculated I used a LTM basis as of last quarter.

 

[Hust]

Just looking at the Juventus FC SpA financials, we have a current ratio (current assets/current liabilities) of 0.38. A current value below 1 means that there might be some short-term liquidity issues, meaning that if the debts came due today we could be in trouble. The quick ratio is rather low as well, which isn't surprising. All the other financial ratios are rather poor as well, and if we weren't a football club, I would be very worried.

But we are a football club after all, so of course we have a lot of leverage and debt since we don't have free access to capital from a single wealthy owner. Nobody invests in football clubs because the expected return is so low, which is why our stock price is trading for cents. Debt has increased year-over-year for several years, but so have the value of our assets, so that at least is a good sign.

I think the author of the article (or the article he mentioned) probably used only financial ratios to come up with the 75% conclusion, which are not always accurate unless some context is placed on them. Especially for football clubs. I would only be worried if we continue to fail in the Champions League and somehow lose half of our stadium-going fans.

- - - Updated - - -

And this is why I have concerns over Marotta's transfer policy of structured deals with loans and options to buy since he is essentially using expected cash flows based on future performance to fund deals on skeptical players. But these expected cash flows aren't based on any tangible discount rate, only that we hope to increase revenue through more sales of tickets and TV rights and Champions League funding. But none of that is guaranteed by any means.

Interesting. Thank you

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I calculated it a few months ago and it was ok (I think ~4.0x IIRC). I work in investment management (high yield corporate bonds) so at my job we have a few tools like Capital IQ and the Bloomberg Terminal that put the financials in excel. When I calculated I used a LTM basis as of last quarter.

You just became everyone's best friend

 

[Bjerknes]

I calculated it a few months ago and it was ok (I think ~4.0x IIRC). I work in investment management (high yield corporate bonds) so at my job we have a few tools like Capital IQ and the Bloomberg Terminal that put the financials in excel. When I calculated I used a LTM basis as of last quarter.

Bloomberg Terminal is the shit.

 

[Fr3sh]

Lived in Edmonton for 5 years. I went to UofA at the time. Now I'm in Calgary

Fackin eh!!! I'm being robbed the UofA atm.

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Albertans...

Are gross.

 

[italiacalcio10]

Interesting. Thank you

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You just became everyone's best friend

Not yet...
I will after everyone downloads this file:
https://www.mediafire.com/?wb70npxhoz7c39o

I pulled it off CAPIQ. Its Juventus' financial statements for the last 5 years. It has Income statement, cash flow statement, balance sheet, and a bunch of ratios.

Enjoy...

FYI Debt/EBITDA is 3.1x LTM.

 

[Paid-off-Ref]

Like someone said here, this is a football club. Financial ratios don't really count when assessing the default risk for football clubs owned by wealthy owners/parent companies. I am sure that Elkann wants our management to run the club in a financially sensible manner. If they don't they just get replaced, but there is no way in hell that the club goes bankrupt. Same with Real Madrid, their debt has reached record heights but I believe they can still borrow at reasonable rates due to the Spanish crown's backing.

 

[Hust]

Not yet...
I will after everyone downloads this file:
https://www.mediafire.com/?wb70npxhoz7c39o

I pulled it off CAPIQ. Its Juventus' financial statements for the last 5 years. It has Income statement, cash flow statement, balance sheet, and a bunch of ratios.

Enjoy...

FYI Debt/EBITDA is 3.1x LTM.

 

[Nzoric]

:shitbucket:

 

[italiacalcio10]

Also, If anyone thinks Roma is remotely even approaching us at the moment, I've included Roma's financial statements...
https://www.mediafire.com/?wb70npxhoz7c39o

It looks like something heading the way of Espirito Santo.

Roma's debt to EBITDA...Well it's undefined...can't divide by 0.

 

[digitalbash]

Fackin eh!!! I'm being robbed the UofA atm.

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Are gross.

LOL no way! That's insane, the only thing that would make this cooler is if you were east african!?

Man I miss UofA. Those were the days. I miss the RATT. The location was amazing.

Albertans...

Man, we buy so much of your weed it's not even funny.

 

[Post Ironic]

I went to UofC for a year back in 2003. Lived downtown C-town on 10th Ave. Worst year of my life. Probably the wildest year of my life too. That place is quite the party town. Aside from that, it's pretty boring.

 

[italiacalcio10]

Lol I'll join the Canada competition. Toronto, representing...

 

[Post Ironic]

I grew up in Horseshoe Valley, by Barrie. Do you like living in Toronto?

 

[italiacalcio10]

I grew up in Horseshoe Valley, by Barrie. Do you like living in Toronto?

Yeah I like it. I grew up in Mississauga but felt the need to move into the city in order to get to my job more effectively because of the hours I work. Overall I like it, but there are times that I miss trees haha. The convenience though of living downtown is unmatched. I'm right between the Roger's Centre and ACC as well, which doesn't hurt.

 

[Post Ironic]

Nice. That's a pretty convenient location. I love the music scene there. There are so many good bands and musicians in Toronto. I lived out by there again in 07-08 for work, and would head into the city a few times a week to check out a show.

 

[jukazem]

Not yet...
I will after everyone downloads this file:
https://www.mediafire.com/?wb70npxhoz7c39o

I pulled it off CAPIQ. Its Juventus' financial statements for the last 5 years. It has Income statement, cash flow statement, balance sheet, and a bunch of ratios.

Enjoy...

FYI Debt/EBITDA is 3.1x LTM.

 

[Fr3sh]

LOL no way! That's insane, the only thing that would make this cooler is if you were east african!?

Man I miss UofA. Those were the days. I miss the RATT. The location was amazing.



Man, we buy so much of your weed it's not even funny.

Yessir, I'm Somali

I grew up in Horseshoe Valley, by Barrie. Do you like living in Toronto?

Fack Toronto, Ottawa is where it's at. That's where I spent the most beautiful 17 years of my life.