The Financial Situation (50 Viewers)

s4tch

s4tch

Senior Member
#10,541
Mar 23, 2015
33,524
#10,541
U Picciriddu said:
Im wondering, is our amortization still that high at the moment?
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it is. we only sold cr (~29m/year) from the high amortization bunch. some highligts:
- de ligt 15m of amortization per season
- arthur ~14,5m or more depending on bonuses
- dougie c is still in our books, ~11m
- bonbon 7m
- berna 8m
- danilo 6.5

it's already well over 60m without the rest of the squad and some players on loan. for comparison, our best squad of the last decade (2015) had a total amortization of 58m, and even in 2017, with higuain in the squad, we stayed around 80m (which was considered high back then).

on the other hand it's much better than 2020 which squad had both higuain and cr, and amortization alone was well over 150m. baby steps.
 

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juve123

Senior Member
#10,542
Aug 10, 2017
16,638
#10,542
italiacalcio10 said:
The large drop in revenues is a bit complicated - yes part of it was due to match day revenues those fell from €49M to €7M. Usually those are €70M+. But those are mostly offset by the fact that we played more games last year in the late summer, which is basically a wash…

So why did revenues crater? Capital gains. We had €172M in capital gains related to player sales = aka = fake revenue.

We plugged the losses related to Ronaldo even pre-pandemic with just a ton of sales designed to prop up profit. It’s one of the reasons why our depreciation expense is also so high (player swaps). While the loss is ugly, the cash flow situation is better. And net debt (debt less cash) was actually better year over year and while most of that was due to them selling receivables owed from teams for cash up front, the cash flow situation is much better than the accounting profit situation. And guess what? Without FFP, accounting profit is much less important because due to all the crap we did to prop it up, it’s a garbage number that hardly reflects the financial situation at the club. What I learned from reading the release:
- commercial revenue continues to steadily grow. It was up €16M
- Exor fronted €75M of the €400M on August 27 (makes you wonder if that was in reaction to Ronaldo leaving - allowing for potential late market opportunities)
- they expect a loss next year - which isn’t surprising given the massive amortization expenses they still have.
- they expect a cash flow deficit - that means they’re going to be investing based off their current levels of cash profit.
- they expect 2022/2023 to be when accounting profits will start to improve big time.

I still believe 2022’s summer will be one of heavy investment. I know a lot of Twitter accounts are obsessed with the “losses” but a lot of these charges are non-cash meaning that the situation is better than it looks.

My forecast for next year is:
Revenues that will be slightly up. They won’t be a lot higher because last year had a bunch of late summer games that increased TV revenues. I would expect mid €440-450M + whatever capital gains they realize on players sales but I ignore that because it’s fake revenue. I would expect the wages to be significantly down…probably from €298M to about €250M. I expect operating profit before player amortization to improve from €-12M to €30M. Given that the Juventus is guiding to a cash flow deficit this year, I can only assume they’re planning to invest…


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So Exor provided us with the 75 million euros after Ronaldo left so I am assuming it will be spent in the next transfer window
 
italiacalcio10

italiacalcio10

Senior Member
#10,543
Mar 3, 2014
3,866
#10,543
U Picciriddu said:
I remember a big Calcio & Finanza report last year, where they already showed many red flags for the future without player sales.

Im wondering, is our amortization still that high at the moment? We have high salaries but with Loca and Chiesa on loan, other players (even with high contracts) came for free or are already years at this club like Rugani. I think that we passed the point of being a exception compared to other clubs amortization wise.

And I’m still a bit frustrated that we didn’t sell any U23 player, we should have those benefits aswel next year.
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It’s pretty high. Good thing FFP is dead which makes it matter less. It’s still about €200M and deals like Arthur’s haven’t exactly helped. This falls to €170M next year with Ronaldo gone.


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italiacalcio10

italiacalcio10

Senior Member
#10,544
Mar 3, 2014
3,866
#10,544
juve123 said:
So Exor provided us with the 75 million euros after Ronaldo left so I am assuming it will be spent in the next transfer window
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We will receive the remaining €325M by year end. I don’t know if it will be spent immediately. The plan is for it to be used to invest in the club as part of its growth plan that ends in 2024. So I would expect the portion of €400M used for transfers to be spent by the then.


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Fab Fragment

Senior Member
#10,547
Dec 22, 2018
4,071
#10,547
Excuse my ignorance about money related matters but what exactly is this capital infusion? Is it a loan to pay off our current debt or do we get to keep it. If it’s the latter, then we’re hopefully going to be in good financial condition.
 
s4tch

s4tch

Senior Member
#10,548
Mar 23, 2015
33,524
#10,548
Fab Fragment said:
Excuse my ignorance about money related matters but what exactly is this capital infusion? Is it a loan to pay off our current debt or do we get to keep it. If it’s the latter, then we’re hopefully going to be in good financial condition.
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it's the majority owner's (exor's) contribution. the club can use it to cover the covid related losses, to pay off some of its debt, and to cover transfer and operational costs. we'll see how it will work out in the coming years. see italiacalcio10's estimations in this thread for an educated guess.
 
Akshen

Akshen

Senior Member
#10,550
Aug 27, 2010
10,608
#10,550
Milan wages:
1632809044761.png

Now compare it to Juve....

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Btw tomorrow they play Atleti, where Simeone earns more than 50% wages of their whole squad (43m before taxes)
 
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ilmetronome

ilmetronome

Senior Member
#10,551
Sep 16, 2020
579
#10,551
Dru said:
New Swiss Ramble analysis. Full thread here


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I am more curious about how much our net current debt vs net current receivable. How much will juve spend in mercato those 400M capital injection considering other aspect. Last 298M capital injection according to these thread 220M of that amount spent on purchase player. I think that was ronaldo, de ligt remaining purchase installment plus purchase in summer 2020
 
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