The Birra Moretti Trophy (1 Viewer)

[BigIzz]

No I don't think we would win that league, although we might. My only point is that the CL isn't a great indicator because of its somewhat random nature. Any number of teams can win the CL, those same teams can be eliminated n the 3rd qualfying round or the 1st group stage.

 

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[denco]

I am not sure then what is the best indicator, if you do not feel the cl is the best way to determine the best team in Europe.

The past winners of the Cl have been the best teams in Europe, Real Madrid, Bayern, Real Madrid, Manu United etc

I have seen our matches in full and i can assure you it was no fluke, the way we went out in the Cl, we just didn't have the class of players, teams like Real Madrid had, forget about the injuries because every team suffers injuries.

Any partial observer will tell you that if not for injuries, Inter or Roma would have won the league so you cannot use injuries as an excuse for our failure in Cl and then ignore Roma and Inter's injury problems or you don't think that Ronaldo, Vieri and Dalmat playing a full season wouldn't have made a difference. if you remember correctly Inter at one point were playing with Dibiagio at the back because of injury problems, Roma played without Totti, Batistuta and Montella for a spell so injuries happens to everyone.

I watched every match Juve played last season and at times we were baffling, totally bereft of ideas, I will give you 2 examples, against Bologna when were drawing 1-1 and Dp was taken off, and the crowd booed, I honestly didn't think we would score, but luckily Pessotto crossed the ball and Tarantino scored an own goal, but i knew no way we would have scored otherwise. The other game was against Piacenza, I saw a team after the first half just give up, totally lacking in ideas until Nedved shot and scored

When I watch football, I look for how many times a team creates genuine chances, I don't mind if they don't take them but at least I know they can create, we just have a team capable of beating smaller teams, why because we lack CREATIVITY.

Whose fault that is, I don't know, not sure if its the board or the manager that decides which player is bought, but I do find it worrying that we have refused to buy a creative player.

I am not one for being too pessimistic or too optimistic i am just realistic and I do not see how this present squad can go against Bayern, Real madrid or Man united on a 2 legged basis and i will be confident we will triumph

 

[BigIzz]

We didn't have an amazing year last year. A number of our player underachieved. We played with our first choice lineup in maybe one match all season. Our two starting central defenders missed extremly long stretches of time (months). We had a midfielder who was constantly in and out of form, suspended for two months and suspended for numerous card infractions. We had a world class striker get injured and miss nearly the entire season. We had our captian get injured for one of our seaons most important matches (in the CL). At the same time, our star striker went through an awful stretch where he couldn't score. A number of players, including Thuram, Del Piero, Nedevd, Davids, Tacch and Zambrotta did not play as well as they can. We had a new coach and a new system to adjust to.

Now despite all these problems, we managed to reach the second group pahse of the CL, win Serie A with the best offense and defense and discipline in the league and reach the final of the Italian Cup. That is a good year by anyones standards. Did we win a treble? No. But when does that really happen? Its like catching lightining in a bottle.

We have the same team back from last year, with a few nice additions. We didn't really lose anyone important from last years squad. We have played together for a year now, our coach has been here for a year. I don't see why we can't expect to match or exceed last years great season.

 

[denco]

Lippi is not new, he knows 85%or more of the squad,

As for the players you mentioned underperformed, Dp, Nedved, Davids and Thuram are getting on in age and thier best years are not ahead of them sadly, and to be fair they played as well as they can, as for Zambrotta nad Tacchi, I am not as convinced of their abilities as some people are

But you are right ,a year together is only a good thing for understanding but please a team of Juve's status qualifying for second phase of Cl is not an achievement, its an insult.

I support Juve believing they are the best in the world, and for a while they were but we self destructed with our transfer policies and now are playing catchup

I notice you haven't talked on how injuries robbed Inter or Roma, and as for Coppa Italia, i am not that interested in that as noone takes it seriously or none of the successful teams anyways.

Me and you differ, in that the way my team wins is important to me as well as winning, also Cl is very important to me and i am not pleased when my team is thoroughly outplayed by Depor, injuries or not

 

[malayou]

I am totally agreed with Denco ...
People are not asking super mega transfer ...
but only a decent offensive players ...
Moggi and Co. should have realised that matters ...

Now we have Brighi and I hope he will shine or even better than Nedved ...
Last season I saw him playing as a backup forward on the right side ... NOT BAD ...
Juve can use him regularly ...
Don't believe to some people who said he is not up to Juve standard ... then WHO?
Is Tacchinardi match Juve standard ...
Until today I didn't see him playing good football ... if he goes to Spain or England he'll get lost by the standard of playing there ...
He can't hold up the ball ... when he got the ball he quickly pass the ball to forward and the forward lost the ball to opponent ...
What is this?
Give offensive players chance to play?
Football means get a goal to win.
Juve are born t win.
So why DEFENSE?

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Attack till we Die ...

 

[BigIzz]

We have decent offensive players...Trezeguet led Serie A in goal scoring last year, Nedved very well may have been MVP of all the league, Del Piero is Del Piero, Salas is a world class striker. I agree that we could use another good offensive weapon, but look at Milan, everyone thinks they have too many. We did lead Serie A in goal scoring.

Inter and Roma had injuries, but not like ours. Look at our lineup for the match at Deportivo and at Leverkusen. Half of our starters didn't play those matches. If we have our full lineup for those games, if Trezeguet wasn't unable to finish, mabye we win, maybe we go on to the next round, maybe we catch some breaks, who knows maybe we even go on to win the entire things.

Of course the opposite can happen. Perhaps they don't call that penalty when Celtic took down Amoruso. Maybe we tie that game and don't even make it out of the first round. Maybe Inter dosen't colapse and they beat Lazio to win the title. Football isn't set in stone, the results aren't destiny. Sometimes the best team wins and sometimes they don't...

You can't realisticly expect us to win a Scudetto comfortably every year and be in the CL final every year.

 

[malayou]

There was truth in your comment ...
but there are certain things you should notice ....
1) Even if we are playing with first eleven and against great team our team can't even dominate the game ...
2) If injury happen to our offensive players there were no back up... then excuses ... excuses ....
3)As a result the game ended with an undeserved draw to Juve or Juve won that game with a dull performance.

So we need decent offensive back-up ... no need world class back-up..

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Attack till We Die ...

 

[denco]

Big Izz, Big Izz, I see you are blinded by your love for Juve, to be objective in your points, because i cannot give anyother explanations as to how you can state we had worse injuries than Inter for goodness sakes they have potentiall the best player in the world injured for the entire campaign, Ronaldo , Vieri the best striker in the league Vieri miss about 3 months, Recoba missing with passport probs, new coach all together, at one time could not field a defense because of injuries

Compare to us Montero is our best defender, and he missed most of out matches, with Tudor, apart from that Trez played every league game, Dp missed only 2 league games all season against Parma and Verona, Salas missed the whole season but he is hardly a goal scoring machine.

To say Nedved is the Mvp is not true whatsoever and Trez, didnt really have any lean streaks so I am not sure where you get that from

We are not spectacular, we are not entertaining, whether we are at full strenght or not, but if you like Germany's way of playing then I am not surprised that you like this squad

 

[BigIzz]

I could care less if we are spectular, I could less if we are entertaining. I just want to win. That is the only thing that matters.

 

[denco]

I rest my case

 

[BigIzz]

Lets agree to disagree for now. When we end up sucking in the CL again this year, you can tell me how wrong I am, ok?

My problem is I'm just an optimist.

 

[denco]

Its not a problem my friend but i pay for the priviledge of watching them so you can understand when i am a bit miffed when they put in pathetic displays

 

[Sivori]

pathetic displays

Slight exaggeration, I should think..

 

[denco]

I am guessing you didnt see them match at the riazor stadium against deportivo

 

[Slagathor]

I did...

 

[Sivori]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I am guessing you didnt see them match at the riazor stadium against deportivo

Maybe I misunderstood you,
I thought you meant the whole season as a whole.
Please tell me that you wouldn't describe the whole season as "pathetic"?

 

[denco]

of course not winning the league aint pathetic and they were good performances but no great performances, but certainly not pathetic performances all the time but some of their displays were

 

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by BigIzz ] ++
Lets agree to disagree for now. When we end up sucking in the CL again this year, you can tell me how wrong I am, ok?

It will give me no pleasure to tell you how wrong you are as i will be hurting to

 

[kristian1199]

We will win the CL!!!!!