Texas woman-drowns children (3 Viewers)

Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
#1
Conviction overturned

A Texas appeals court in early 2005 reversed the capital murder convictions of Andrea Yates, the woman who drowned her five children in a bathtub, citing the false testimony of a prosecution witness. Jurors in 2002 sentenced Yates to life in prison in the 2001 deaths of three of her children: Noah, 7, John, 5, and Mary, 6 months. She was not tried in the deaths of the other two, Luke, 3, and Paul, 2. Jurors deliberated for three hours and 40 minutes before finding Yates guilty of murder on March 13, 2002. Her attorneys argued that Yates was insane when she drowned the children but prosecutors said Yates knew what she was doing was wrong.


Both the defense and prosecution agreed Yates is mentally ill, but prosecutors convinced the jury that she was aware that what she was doing was wrong.

Under Texas law, defendants can be declared not guilty by reason of insanity only if it is determined they did not know right from wrong at the time of the crime.

Prosecutors now may ask a higher court, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, to overturn Thursday's decision. The Harris County district attorney's office did not return a call seeking comment.
Testimony might have been influential

Dietz, who worked as consultant for NBC's "Law and Order" program, testified that there was an episode dealing with a woman suffering from postpartum depression who drowned her children in a bathtub and was found to have been insane.

Yates, now 40, apparently was a fan of the show and watched it regularly.

Dietz suggested that Yates might have been inspired to kill her children because of that specific episode. But on appeal, the defense said it contacted the producers of the show, who said such an episode was never aired.

"We conclude that there is a reasonable likelihood that Dr. Dietz's false testimony could have affected the judgment of the jury," the appeals court found. "We further conclude that Dr. Dietz's false testimony affected the substantial rights of the appellant."

The appeals court ruling found that Dietz did not intentionally lie and the prosecution did not knowingly use false testimony.

Parnham said Dietz' testimony was critical to the prosecution's case.


"Only one mental health expert testified that Andrea knew that what she was doing was wrong, and that was the celebrated Park Dietz," he said. "And without his testimony, every other mental health expert ... all testified that she was either incapable of knowing what she was doing was wrong, or did not know what she was doing was wrong."

Parnham also said he had a "pleasant" talk with Yates' husband, Russell, who filed for divorce in August, about the ruling.

"He thought that the court had done the right thing, and he wants only mental health care for Andrea," Parnham said.

Now that a retrial is possible, Parnham emphasized that a verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity "does not mean that an individual is released."

"I am certain that there are circumstances in her future that can be addressed that would be outside four walls of razor wire," he said. But he added, "I don't believe that Andrea will ever be in a position to be free of any type of mental health assistance."

The Yates case created national debate over the legal standards for mental illness and whether postpartum depression is properly recognized. Women's advocacy groups had harshly criticized prosecutors in the Yates case for seeking the death penalty.

During her trial, the defense called an expert on postpartum depression in an attempt to show that Yates posed no danger to society.

Russell Yates accused the court system of victimizing his wife after the medical community had mistreated her by not recognizing how sick she was and not giving her proper treatment.

According to an Associated Press report, prosecution witness Dietz is a nationally known expert who also took part in such high profile cases as those of Susan Smith, convicted of killing her two children in a South Carolina lake; serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer; and "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski.

Cnn.com


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Ok I think you all remember this case from a few years back. Laws in Texas, an in America, in general, are so absurd. Children can be tried as adults, and insane people can be given life in prison. Apparently, the county in which this happened, said that "you don't kill your children in [their county] and get away with it". A person like this clearly needs help. Laws in Sweden, imo, are much better. Yes Jeeks, I know that a lot of people get away with their crimes, and murderers get like 5 years at times. But, I believe their sentences are proper. If you're isane ergo you need help. In America it seems that they love "setting examples" so to say. And doesn't it seem that trying teenagers as criminals is crazy?

discuss...
 

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Layce Erayce

Senior Member
Aug 11, 2002
9,116
#2
I believe the threshhold is whether the person recognises that their actions were wrong, or have some idea of morality.

I do believe that mentally troubled individuals need help, but there is a flipside.

The flipside is that if people arent punished harshly, it will encourage further criminal activity. Punishments serve as a deterrent to crime. Ie, you are less likely to do a crime if you know you will get an arm chopped off than if you are made to pay a 150 $ file.

I believe the line between fair treatment and deterrent is a fine one and should be decided on a case-by-case basis, which is what happens right now. Forza Juve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Zé Tahir

Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #3
    Duke, I agree. but, not all people who chop off arms are psycho. Killing your children is something only a psycho would do, especially if it's the mother. So there can be no settin example with this crime. I mean it's common sense, kill your child=insane=help.
     

    /usr/bin

    Excellent
    Mar 6, 2005
    6,223
    #4
    Of course they'd need help.. But the important thing is to first of all keep them away from society before they do any more damage.. There are Mental Wards/Prisons aren't there?
     
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    Zé Tahir

    Zé Tahir

    JhoolayLaaaal!
    Moderator
    Dec 10, 2004
    29,281
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #5
    ++ [ originally posted by Nawaf ] ++
    Of course they'd need help.. But the important thing is to first of all keep them away from society before they do any more damage.. There are Mental Wards/Prisons aren't there?
    exactly. and yes there are mental institutes.
     

    Layce Erayce

    Senior Member
    Aug 11, 2002
    9,116
    #6
    ++ [ originally posted by Zé Tahir ] ++
    Duke, I agree. but, not all people who chop off arms are psycho. Killing your children is something only a psycho would do, especially if it's the mother. So there can be no settin example with this crime. I mean it's common sense, kill your child=insane=help.
    You misunderstood me. I was referring to the arm-chop as a deterrent not as a crime. Maybe you will understand my point before.
     
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    Zé Tahir

    Zé Tahir

    JhoolayLaaaal!
    Moderator
    Dec 10, 2004
    29,281
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #7
    ++ [ originally posted by Layce Erayce ] ++


    You misunderstood me. I was referring to the arm-chop as a deterrent not as a crime. Maybe you will understand my point before.
    ahh yes, I understand now, sorry.
     

    Henry

    Senior Member
    Sep 30, 2003
    5,517
    #8
    It is a very fine law...certainly, someone who isinsane needs help, but unfortunately there are a lot of people that get off in the insanity plea, when it is very debatable whether they are insane or not...it is a very convenient defence
     

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