Terrorism (12 Viewers)

[Zlatan]

P.S. America is by no means the world's little innocent angel, as you might think Vin. The US has done it's fair share of atrocities through the past, maybe even more than Saddam. Starting from the killings of Indians, dropping nuclear bombs on hundreds of thousands of innocent civillians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing and raping in Vietnam, the support of Israel etc.

How is dropping two 50 megaton nuclear bombs on two Japanese cities any better than setting off a suitcase bomb in NY?


What most, IMO, annoys the world is your "We're better than you attitude", that's only become worse with George "Numwit" Bush, starting from his request to exempt US soldiers from the World War Crimes Tribunal (or whatever it's called). WTF is that about?

 

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[ShevaKakaNesta]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++


I'm not a mod.. but think I can say: "Please read the Forum Rules.

k sorry about that mate wont do it agian

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by ShevaKakaNesta ] ++


k sorry about that mate wont do it agian

thank you

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by ShevaKakaNesta ] ++
America suck gay country they got sum realy pathetic rules and gay president and they need a change

:groan: Somebody should ban this asshole. He's probably in Al Qaeda himself.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++




We already saw it Andy. We saw what the rest of the world would do. We saw what France and Germany would have done, so it's not a question about judging afterwards, people were saying it was wrong even before the invasion started.

France, Germany, Sweden, or Bosnia wasn't attacked on 9/11, so it was in THEIR best interest to stay out of a war. Again Europe was not in the same situation as the U.S., don't try to make it seem that way.

 

[JCK]

I would like to ask one question and keep my thoughts to myself,
can one fight violence without being violent?

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++
I would like to ask one question and keep my thoughts to myself,
can one fight violence without being violent?

Yes, but it hardly ever works.

 

[Vinman]

++ [ originally posted by ShevaKakaNesta ] ++
America suck gay country they got sum realy pathetic rules and gay president and they need a change

Go home you ignorant asshole !!!!!

 

[Vinman]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
P.S. America is by no means the world's little innocent angel, as you might think Vin. The US has done it's fair share of atrocities through the past, maybe even more than Saddam. Starting from the killings of Indians, dropping nuclear bombs on hundreds of thousands of innocent civillians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing and raping in Vietnam, the support of Israel etc.

How is dropping two 50 megaton nuclear bombs on two Japanese cities any better than setting off a suitcase bomb in NY?


What most, IMO, annoys the world is your "We're better than you attitude", that's only become worse with George "Numwit" Bush, starting from his request to exempt US soldiers from the World War Crimes Tribunal (or whatever it's called). WTF is that about?

Zlatan, WE WERE AT WAR !!!!!!!!!

We had EVERY right to use the atom bomb

I understand that you are a liberal, but use a little more sense than the jibberish you just wrote......

Dont blame us for the Indians either, a good majority of the ppl here in the US ancestors hadnt even come here yet.........................

 

[Vinman]

Zlatan,

I understand that you do not like the US , and thats fine...no matter what we do, you will have a complaint...so be it !!!

Take a look at your country and you will no doubt see a lack of perfection too, my friend

 

[Asma]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


:groan: Somebody should ban this asshole. He's probably in Al Qaeda himself.

loooooool!

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++


Zlatan, WE WERE AT WAR !!!!!!!!!

We had EVERY right to use the atom bomb

I understand that you are a liberal, but use a little more sense than the jibberish you just wrote......

Dont blame us for the Indians either, a good majority of the ppl here in the US ancestors hadnt even come here yet.........................

So being in war gives you the right to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civillians that had no direct link to the war?

You could aslo Ssay that Al Queda is at war with the US, doesnt that, by your logic, give them the right to kill US civillians?

++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++
Zlatan,

I understand that you do not like the US , and thats fine...no matter what we do, you will have a complaint...so be it !!!

Take a look at your country and you will no doubt see a lack of perfection too, my friend

I never said I didnt like the US, I just dont like what it's becoming and what it's leaders are doing.

As for my country, I know it's far from perfect, I never said otherwise. In fact, Bosnia sucks major ass.

 

[KB824]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++



So being in war gives you the right to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civillians that had no direct link to the war?

We were dragged into that war, Z. And we wanted to finish it, once and for all.

Or did you think that "Pearl Harbor" was just a nice movie starring Ben Affleck.

Civilian casualites as a result of WWII:

Japan: 360,000

China 10,000,000.00 And guess who killed em', Z? The US and its Allies? Nope. Try Japan, the country with all those innocent people.

Or does "The rape of Nanking" not ringa bell with you

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
P.S. America is by no means the world's little innocent angel, as you might think Vin. The US has done it's fair share of atrocities through the past, maybe even more than Saddam. Starting from the killings of Indians, dropping nuclear bombs on hundreds of thousands of innocent civillians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing and raping in Vietnam, the support of Israel etc.

How is dropping two 50 megaton nuclear bombs on two Japanese cities any better than setting off a suitcase bomb in NY?


What most, IMO, annoys the world is your "We're better than you attitude", that's only become worse with George "Numwit" Bush, starting from his request to exempt US soldiers from the World War Crimes Tribunal (or whatever it's called). WTF is that about?

People have pointed out to you several times that everybody has commited their share of atrocities, but some are far more heinous than others. Killing your enemy or murdering the people and children under your own command?

You always try to make it seem like we are always the bad guys Zlatan, no matter what the event and I'm getting sick of it. We get it already, Iraq might have been a mistake. No need to keep harping on it the whole world already has its own views on it. Instead of biatching about why the war was wrong or stupid, how about trying to think of ways to resolve the matter? But nobody wants to do that. Everybody likes to criticise situations in which it doesn't involve them, its too easy. It happend, might have been wrong, but move on and stopping dwelling on it.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by Sergio ] ++


We were dragged into that war, Z. And we wanted to finish it, once and for all.

Or did you think that "Pearl Harbor" was just a nice movie starring Ben Affleck.

Civilian casualites as a result of WWII:

Japan: 360,000

China 10,000,000.00 And guess who killed em', Z? The US and its Allies? Nope. Try Japan, the country with all those innocent people.

Or does "The rape of Nanking" not ringa bell with you

Serge, you wanted to finish the war, fine, but that doesnt justify using such a weapon on civillians. Was every civillian in Hiroshima and Nagasaki guilty? Was it the childrens fault? I'm not trying to make you out to be the bad guys, I just want you to understand that you're no better than the rest of the world. How was Saddam using biological weapons on the Kurds any worse than the US dropping nuclear bombs on two cities? The US is trying to stop countries getting hold of nuclear weapons, when it is them that have most of those weapons and are the only ones that have used them. What gives you the right to have them, but not us?

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


People have pointed out to you several times that everybody has commited their share of atrocities, but some are far more heinous than others. Killing your enemy or murdering the people and children under your own command?

You always try to make it seem like we are always the bad guys Zlatan, no matter what the event and I'm getting sick of it. We get it already, Iraq might have been a mistake. No need to keep harping on it the whole world already has its own views on it. Instead of biatching about why the war was wrong or stupid, how about trying to think of ways to reslove the matter? But nobody wants to do that. Everybody likes to criticise situations in which it doesn't involve them, its too easy. It happend, might have been wrong, but move on and stopping dwelling on it.

Like I said, I'm not trying to mke you look like the bad guys at all, I just want you to understand that youre not the perfect guys as you might think, especially you Andy.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++



Serge, you wanted to finish the war, fine, but that doesnt justify using such a weapon on civillians. Was every civillian in Hiroshima and Nagasaki guilty? Was it the childrens fault? I'm not trying to make you out to be the bad guys, I just want you to understand that you're no better than the rest of the world. How was Saddam using biological weapons on the Kurds any worse than the US dropping nuclear bombs on two cities? The US is trying to stop countries getting hold of nuclear weapons, when it is them that have most of those weapons and are the only ones that have used them. What gives you the right to have them, but not us?




Like I said, I'm not trying to mke you look like the bad guys at all, I just want you to understand that youre not the perfect guys as you might think, especially you Andy.

Of course we're not perfect, like I said before everybody makes mistakes. But it's like I'm reading the script of Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 everytime I see posts from you about Iraq.

 

[KB824]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++



Serge, you wanted to finish the war, fine, but that doesnt justify using such a weapon on civillians. Was every civillian in Hiroshima and Nagasaki guilty? Was it the childrens fault? I'm not trying to make you out to be the bad guys, I just want you to understand that you're no better than the rest of the world. How was Saddam using biological weapons on the Kurds any worse than the US dropping nuclear bombs on two cities? The US is trying to stop countries getting hold of nuclear weapons, when it is them that have most of those weapons and are the only ones that have used them. What gives you the right to have them, but not us?

You do know that German scientists were racing around the clock to get their Atomic Bombs finished first, right? What do you think would have happened if Hitler got it first?

Here's a hint: You would be speaking German right now.

And Please don't use Saddam unleashing chemical weapons ON HIS OWN PEOPLE as justification for your argument.

Again, The US was dragged into a war it didn't want to be in, and up until that time, there were no Japanese civillian casualties, yet there were more than 10 million in China alone, all at the hands of the Japanese. The US and its Allies wanted to send a message to end this war, or do you honestly believe that Truman would have done this without the approval of Stalin and Churchill?

And for God's sakes, stop saying "Nuclear Bombs" If they were Nuclear bombs, Half of Japan would be in the ocean.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
The US is trying to stop countries getting hold of nuclear weapons, when it is them that have most of those weapons and are the only ones that have used them. What gives you the right to have them, but not us?

I've answered that several times as well. The reason for that is because we would not use them on our own people and recklessly use them against other countries we dislike. No matter how mad you think Bush is, I can assure you he would do none of that.

 

[swag]

++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++
Why was it the wrong choice ??

- he funded terrorists (Hamas and Hezbollah), and gave money to suicide bombers families

Iraq was the most secular of all Middle Eastern countries with only the exception of maybe Turkey. If there is any government there that is the antithesis of fundamentalist Islam, it was Iraq. It's no wonder why many Islamic fundametialists did not get along with the Saddam regime -- it was about Saddam long before it would be about Allah.

Iran, on the other hand, is run by fundametalists from Islam. They have a nuclear weapons program. Hmmmm...

- He invaded Kuwait, his soldiers raped and pillaged the ppl

That was addressed 13 years prior.

- He gased his own ppl, killing anyone and everyone in his way

I hate to be so brutal, but what concern was that really of American self-interest? Would we really even lift a finger to intervene with any third world country that conducts a gas raid on some of its ethnic minorities in its wage of a civil war? It's a red herring, because honestly no Democrat or Republican is going to put American lives in harms way to intervene on this issue alone.

- he tried on several occasions to obtain WMD (we may all find out later if Syria is "safekeeping" his arsenal)

What third world country isn't these days? I mean, we're pretty much in bed with Pakistan right now -- and Musharraf's administration has clearly looked the other way when it comes to terrorism in Kashmir, in Indian cities, etc. And yet they have nukes and we know it. And we know that Al Qaeda has regularly crossed over their unprotected border to hide out and make camp.

- He didnt follow any of the rules of surrender to the US after the Gulf War, and gave the UN constant problems with letting the inspectors do their jobs

I personally just can't make the leap of faith here to go straight to war being the answer to this. It's too simplistic -- it's how a 4-year-old would respond to a situation like this.

- he attacked our planes several times in the "no fly" zone, another breach of the agreement, and not to mention, an act of war

But we didn't declare war on China over the Hainan incident in 2000... why is that?

- several intel sources say that he had met Bin Laden on 2 occasions prior to Sept 11 (the enemy of my enemy is my friend)

The trouble is that intel sources can be rumor and innuendo until they can be confirmed. We have photographs of Rumsfeld meeting Saddam with chummy handshakes before 9/11, but that doesn't necessarily implicate Rumsfeld as a collaborator either.

ppl say Iraq has nothing to do with Al Queida. Tell that to the families of the headless victims. Al Queida didnt just show up there now...................

It certainly put a big advertising sign on the country and said, "Come on down! Get a piece of the Americans!"

But perhaps that's the strategy for American security. Make Iraq a big bug lamp for terrorists so that they don't have to travel as far to kill Americans. Why go overseas when it's much more convenient to kill Americans next door?

I guess you could say that's good for the homeland. But I don't particularly care for being the relative and friend of folks going down to Iraq as terrorism bait.

 

[Zlatan]

I'm not going into this with you any more, you're getting way too emotional and I dont want us to hate eachother because of this.