Terrorism (5 Viewers)

[sallyinzaghi]

Well I know we all get emotional bout things we read (personally I do too, bout some stuff) but as emotional or angry or whatever it is that we are, I still don't think we should call each other names and everything. The whole point of a forum is to discuss or debate rationally with each other, not point fingers at one another and have a go at each other. Personally, for readers like me who knows not much bout all these terrorisms, I for one get very irritated with all these 'fights' because the discussions were going on very well until all these things.


Vin, please don't jump at me for asking this, but if you know you would get upset bout politics or anything, why do you still read the posts in these threads if you know it's gonna make you angry and say harsh things ?

Or take action like Lili did - she blocked all Fliakis's posts

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Ivy]

Have not read the posts in here (kinda scary) except for sally's (hi Sally! *waves* ) above mine cos it's on the same page

But i can already get the hang f what this 1's abt



So my 2 cents from knowing close to nothing.....




This is a fourm.....

Forums are for fun/ relaxing/ hanging out.....

This is a football fourm....

This is a Juentuz forum.....




So that means the pourpose/existance of this fourm is for people who like/ want to talk abt Juve to meet up and well....... talk abt Juve and have fun ( I dun mean having fun abt Juve/at Juve all you not nice anti-Juves you! )


So if you find that at anytime while you're in here that you are not doing that then...... you've already lost the pourpose of this forum and the reason why you probably joined it in the 1st place


Just keep a tab on the objectives of things and you'll never loose that objective. We can always be happy talking abt Juve/football of any kind.



If you want to talk abt something like politics or argue abt what have you then grab that guy you are arguing with and make off to a politics forum/ what have you fourm where you can converse abt that with other people with the same interst. This place isnt for all of that is it? This place is for all the stuff i said above.

Or take action like Lili did - she blocked all Fliakis's posts

did she do that? ...... Genius!

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++


I made a disturbing comment to Vinman??? I made a disturbing comment to Vinman? Dude, get your facts straight, I did not even talk directly to Vin until he started the insults. I never start fights, I finish them. And I have a right to say what I think about PONTUS as anyone else has, and all of my posts and comments are valid.

You only had to say it once dude. And like I said, I didn't see the original post, but from what Torkel said after he deleted it made we think that it was below the belt. Which is one reason why I wish mods wouldn't delete some posts, but it is understandable that they do.

I know you have a right to say whatever the hell you want- or maybe not because of the deleted post, but in that thread you continually bagged on the President, which some people would be offended by (i.e. Vinman). Actually every post you made in that thread was direct bagging on the Pres, so I can understandbly see how people would get upset with you, especially somebody of a Republican background. Instead of taking shots at him, maybe you should have posted with a better tone, instead of posting post after post of same cheap shots.

 

[Zlatan]

I actually dont think they were cheapshots. I didnt call him an ignorant dumbass, which we all know Bush is. I talked about his politics, the wrong way he deals with terrorists, etc. No cheap shots, all valid arguments. If all republicans are like Vinman, then it's no wonder America is breaking apart.

 

[Ian]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
So you are saying that the Government isn't the enemy? So you are saying that I, PERSONALLY, am the ENEMY TO THE WORLD? I'm sorry, but you seem like you've been brainwashed by Bin Laden himself.

Yes, I'm saying that you are the enemy in this fight. It is you and your fellow countrymen who spur the cultural and economic take-over of the rest of the world.

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Millions of people here in this country work their asses off, for just minimum wage. They can barely afford to provide their children a college education, let alone do anything even close to the bull shit you and your terrorist friends believe.

One, I am not a terrorist and I don't have terrorist friends. Two, I'm not saying that the American people are doing anything that isn't common knowlege, I'm just saying that if you look at it from the point of view of someone who is under the subjugation of the American empire, then it doesn't seem like millions of people who work their asses off for "just minimum wage." You take for granted those words, minimum wage. The minimum wage in the US is many times higher than the average wage of people in many countries throughout the world. The people of the United States are the richest and most wasteful in the world, and their excess and waste is shouldered by the rest of the world. Furthermore, the persuit of a global market by the American people brings with it the pressure to accept American cultural values and that pressure is backed up with the force of the world's largest military. The American people are not the victims that you would make them out to be.

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Are these people really the enemy to the world?!

Yes.

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
What the hell has the average U.S. citizen done to deserve being killed by cowardly terrorists?

The American consumer culture drives a world market of inequality that forces most of the world to spend their human and natural resources at an non-renewable rate just to prop up the American economy while their own people can not afford clothing food and shelter. Furthermore, the American people wage a cultural war on the rest of the world, forcing them to accept American values. Also, to call them cowardly is bullshit. Why is a man a coward for sacrificing his life to save his people, his religion, and his culture? Simply because you don't agree with his beliefs, that does not make him a coward.

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
You think that all people over here are bigots, who don't care about anything else than personal belongings.

No, I don't think that. I think that Ameicans as individuals can be very caring, selfless, and generous people. However the American culture at large is one of consumerism, greed, and excessive wealth.

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Well, sorry to break it to you, but thats common to all people over the world, not just here.

Oh really? So, you're trying to tell me that the United States is not the most consumerist, greedy, and arrogant nation in the world? Right, well I've been all over the world and I've seen a lot of different cultures, but Americans take the cake in that regard and they lead the world in bringing those values to other places, especially to places that don't want American culture.

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
So basically you just confirmed that you support Osama Bin Laden, as well as all the other terrorrist organizations around the globe.

Yes, I support some of Osama Bin Laden's goals. For instance, I support the idea of a united, Arab, Islamic Middle East. I support the end of American oppression and exploitation of the rest of the world. I don't support the violence that Bin Laden advocates, and I don't support his radical Islamic ideals.

But, I fail to see how that means that I support all other terrorist organizations. I don't support the idea of terrorism, nor do I support the causes of all the other terrorist groups. You do realise that not all the terrorists in the world are after America...

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
By that, you ARE a terrorist.

Oh, **** off. I'm a terrorist? Do I bomb public places? Do I highjack planes and crash them into buildings? Do I kidnap people? Do I give money to people who do that? Do I do anything, that helps people to hurt other people? The answer to all those questions is NO. Just because I understand the hate that terrorists have for America does not mean that I am a terrorist.

 

[Ian]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++
Now thats fair enough and all well and good but for one minor point....

Bin laden doesnt have a cause... he chops and changes all over the place to his own end.

Go back and look at what he was saying with the same bullshit speaches he comes out with today back in say 1991.

He used exactly the same phrases ,attitude etc back then but in support of very different things.

He doesnt know what he wants himself... he has represented all sides, murdering his chosen enemies of the time whether that be the so called infidels ... his own nation... his own religion that he supposedly holds so high.or any chosen party he feels like attacking

He has no cause... he jus decides what to do at any given time.... he is one of the few real terrorists... at least the likes of the ira , palestinians and eta etc etc have a cause that they fight for (whether right or wrong is not the issue) and that has to be respected whether you agree with it or the methods chosen.

Bin Laden does not have this... his cause changes every day

Okay. To be honest, I don't really know that much about Bin Laden, I just used him as an example of an Anti-American terrorist.

 

[BigIzz]

Ian your comments are fairly broad and I can assure you that not all American's are like that. In fact, while some feel very similar to you, most are genrally brainwashed by the powers that be. Don't blame the largley innocent masses, blame the people running the show.

 

[River]

++ [ originally posted by Ian ] ++
One, I am not a terrorist and I don't have terrorist friends. Two, I'm not saying that the American people are doing anything that isn't common knowlege, I'm just saying that if you look at it from the point of view of someone who is under the subjugation of the American empire, then it doesn't seem like millions of people who work their asses off for "just minimum wage." You take for granted those words, minimum wage. The minimum wage in the US is many times higher than the average wage of people in many countries throughout the world. The people of the United States are the richest and most wasteful in the world, and their excess and waste is shouldered by the rest of the world. Furthermore, the persuit of a global market by the American people brings with it the pressure to accept American cultural values and that pressure is backed up with the force of the world's largest military. The American people are not the victims that you would make them out to be.

The persuit of a global market by the people? Please. Blame the company bosses, blame the admen but to blame the people is rediculous.

Its so annoying to here people like you blame America for forcing their culture on your people, when in reality its your people that are eating up American culture as fast as they can. Blame your own for it, not America for providing it. Any person or any nation will provide for a want if there is a want.

 

[3pac]

right im totally against bush and all but i think what ian said is jsut a tad ridiculous. so i am an enemy and have done something totally wrong in this world, when all ive done is grow up how i was raised? and you say we are the most arrogant/greedy nation. in all history, hasnt them sot powerful nation always been like this? when england had their great empire im sure they had just the same greed and arrogance, and the romans. its always been this way, and someday america will be over-taken, and a new country will be like this. i dont look back on every roman citizen and say "THEYRE BAD PEOPLE", i jsut accept that it isnt those people governing their entire society.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Ian ] ++


Yes, I'm saying that you are the enemy in this fight. It is you and your fellow countrymen who spur the cultural and economic take-over of the rest of the world.

Yeah, okay. I'm the guy who travels round about the world, and brainwashes every unsuspecting person into buying our products and economic influences. Right, so here I am, send your troops here to capture me for my crimes.

One, I am not a terrorist and I don't have terrorist friends. Two, I'm not saying that the American people are doing anything that isn't common knowlege, I'm just saying that if you look at it from the point of view of someone who is under the subjugation of the American empire, then it doesn't seem like millions of people who work their asses off for "just minimum wage." You take for granted those words, minimum wage. The minimum wage in the US is many times higher than the average wage of people in many countries throughout the world. The people of the United States are the richest and most wasteful in the world, and their excess and waste is shouldered by the rest of the world. Furthermore, the persuit of a global market by the American people brings with it the pressure to accept American cultural values and that pressure is backed up with the force of the world's largest military. The American people are not the victims that you would make them out to be.

Yes, we are the richest country in the world. But how would some people from a country we support feel if all of a sudden we pulled our protection and financial support out of their country, barring Iraq? Would that be right? The richest country in the world not giving a penny to a suffering nation, whose people are starving and opressed? Would it be right for us to sit back and do nothing? We would be seen as the biggest asswhole country in the world. But wait, according to you Ian, we already are. Sorry, but I think people are just jealous of us. God Bless America and our freedom.

The American consumer culture drives a world market of inequality that forces most of the world to spend their human and natural resources at an non-renewable rate just to prop up the American economy while their own people can not afford clothing food and shelter. Furthermore, the American people wage a cultural war on the rest of the world, forcing them to accept American values. Also, to call them cowardly is bullshit. Why is a man a coward for sacrificing his life to save his people, his religion, and his culture? Simply because you don't agree with his beliefs, that does not make him a coward.

Well maybe a better word for it is a flat out idiot. One of those idiot terrorists, who rediculously waste their already pathetic lives for a stupid cause started by the biggest coward himself Bin Laden, cannot change how things are in the world. The terrorists will never win.

Oh really? So, you're trying to tell me that the United States is not the most consumerist, greedy, and arrogant nation in the world? Right, well I've been all over the world and I've seen a lot of different cultures, but Americans take the cake in that regard and they lead the world in bringing those values to other places, especially to places that don't want American culture.

We are, what, the fourth largest country in the world population wise? We are the richest country in the world; we do help other nations that NEED our help. If another country in the world was on our level it would be the same old thing, wouldn't it?

Oh, **** off. I'm a terrorist? Do I bomb public places? Do I highjack planes and crash them into buildings? Do I kidnap people? Do I give money to people who do that? Do I do anything, that helps people to hurt other people? The answer to all those questions is NO. Just because I understand the hate that terrorists have for America does not mean that I am a terrorist.

If you sympathize for Bin Laden and his causes, and support his goals, then yes, I would consider you a terrorist. Much like you consider me the enemy of the entire world.

 

[Torkel]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Yes, we are the richest country in the world. But how would some people from a country we support feel if all of a sudden we pulled our protection and financial support out of their country, barring Iraq? Would that be right? The richest country in the world not giving a penny to a suffering nation, whose people are starving and opressed? Would it be right for us to sit back and do nothing? We would be seen as the biggest asswhole country in the world. But wait, according to you Ian, we already are. Sorry, but I think people are just jealous of us. God Bless America and our freedom.

I feel your post here was quite off the mark Andy, but I won't go into it wholeheartedly as I don't won't to get caught in this discussion to be honest, but I had to respond to this.

I don't think Ian is against the U.S. supporting poor countries with unattached financial aid, as you suddenly bring up here. And you don't even give the most financial aid according to money held, not by far according to the latest list I've seen, yet one could easily think that when looking at your post. You seem to have missed Ian's post also when you talk about the countries that "need" your help. Instead trying to prove Ian wrong about arrogant Americans, I think you rather supported his claim with this post.

 

[Zlatan]

Andy, I still think that it's naive of you to think that America "helps" out because of the goodness of their hearts.

I heard a good line on an English TV show last night, it's a comedy called "The last statesman". basically, a British MP and his numwit assistan were in Bosnia doing one of their scams. The assistant asks "When will this stop", and the MP answers "When they tow Quwait to the Balkans". I'm sorry Andy, but thats just how it is.


It would make sense for the US to invest billions of dollars to "help" other countries withouth strings attached, especially when america's healt care and educations systems, as well as the crime rate, are far from perfect. I could understad giving away money you dont need, but noone gives away money they could use if they dont get something back.




P.S. Why is it always me that stirs things up?

 

[Vinman]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
I actually dont think they were cheapshots. I didnt call him an ignorant dumbass, which we all know Bush is. I talked about his politics, the wrong way he deals with terrorists, etc. No cheap shots, all valid arguments. If all republicans are like Vinman, then it's no wonder America is breaking apart.

The wrong way I deal with terrorists ??????

And what would be YOUR better way to deal with them ??? Surrender our country to radical Islam, like Bin Laden wants ?? (and yes , he has said that many times)

As far as the country breaking up, wait and see what happens if Kerry wins the election, we'll see what he does when were hit with another attack.......

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Torkel ] ++

I feel your post here was quite off the mark Andy, but I won't go into it wholeheartedly as I don't won't to get caught in this discussion to be honest, but I had to respond to this.

I don't think Ian is against the U.S. supporting poor countries with unattached financial aid, as you suddenly bring up here. And you don't even give the most financial aid according to money held, not by far according to the latest list I've seen, yet one could easily think that when looking at your post. You seem to have missed Ian's post also when you talk about the countries that "need" your help. Instead trying to prove Ian wrong about arrogant Americans, I think you rather supported his claim with this post.

FFS :groan:

Denmark gives 96% of their gross national income designated for foreign aid, while Holland gives 82%. The U.S. gives 12%. Considering our population and the amount of money we have, that could be understandable.

Every year the U.S. gives assistance to other countries in the form of money, goods, services, and technical expertise. In the 2004 Budget, President Bush requested $75 million for the Trust Fund for Heavily Indebted Poor Countries, and an additional $320 million for other debt programs. The aid is bilateral, in which the aid goes directly from the U.S. to another country. In 2003, the countries receivingthe most bilateral U.S. aid were Russia, Isreal, Egypt, and Colombia. The U.S. also gives multilateral aid to organizations such as the UN and World Bank.

Sorry, thats all my niggardly high school education can offer. :groan:

 

[Vinman]

++ [ originally posted by Ian ] ++


Okay. To be honest, I don't really know that much about Bin Laden, I just used him as an example of an Anti-American terrorist.

From what I've read in your posts, you condone what Bin Laden is doing, but you really dont know what he's all about ?????

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++


From what I've read in your posts, you condone what Bin Laden is doing, but you really dont know what he's all about ?????

:LOL: Seriously.

 

[Torkel]

I thought you were a bit slow in replying, but I guess you were checking some facts.

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Denmark gives 96% of their gross national income designated for foreign aid, while Holland gives 82%. The U.S. gives 12%. Considering our population and the amount of money we have, that could be understandable.

Why exactly?

Every year the U.S. gives assistance to other countries in the form of money, goods, services, and technical expertise. In the 2004 Budget, President Bush requested $75 million for the Trust Fund for Heavily Indebted Poor Countries, and an additional $320 million for other debt programs. The aid is bilateral, in which the aid goes directly from the U.S. to another country. In 2003, the countries receivingthe most bilateral U.S. aid were Russia, Isreal, Egypt, and Colombia. The U.S. also gives multilateral aid to organizations such as the UN and World Bank.

I see the numbers here, but the point is not too clear to me. Mind pointing it out?

And you have to be pretty ballsy to be calling the money you give to the world bank aid, I hope we can agree on that.

And I still don't understand why you even brought up the issue of forein aid in regards to Ian's post.

Sorry, thats all my niggardly high school education can offer. :groan:

Niggardly? Never heard the expression before, and certainly hope it doesn't means what it sounds like. What did you mean by it?

 

[Vinman]

I dont think he meant what your thinking.............

 

[Torkel]

++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++
I dont think he meant what your thinking.............

Ok, thanks. Just never heard the expression before. What does it mean?

 

[Vinman]

It means small or meager

I dont use the word very often because it does sound similar to another word