Tactics and Formations (55 Viewers)

[Dostoevsky]

But you were the one who gave an excuse to his failure last season. He did not only fail because of his lack of squad depth, he also failed because he is not a great manager, he is limited and couldn't cope with his squad's weaknesses.

I never said he's great, not once. Decent coach IMO, nothing more.

But it was an excuse and same thing can easily happen to Sampdoria now. It's not up to coach really when it comes down to that and lack of squad depth.

 

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[JCK]

I never said he's great, not once. Decent coach IMO, nothing more.

But it was an excuse and same thing can easily happen to Sampdoria now. It's not up to coach really when it comes down to that and lack of squad depth.

The good coach should know his squad's abilities and prioritize. If he knows that the lack of depth and the heavy schedule would affect all the competitions his team is partaking in, he should simply ignore those competitions that has are out of reach and focus on bringing results in others.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Not any coach will ignore the CL. They do that when it comes to UEFA cup though, especially Italian clubs.

 

[BillyG]

Not that i think Del Neri was a great choice but Ranieri was never going to bring us glory either. Ciro had a lot to offer the club, he did change things around, new system that worked at teh start, brought in some big name players etc..but in the end couldnt get it to all function and eventually lost his way with the players...when that happens we were always screwed.

Back to Del Neri, I am just happy that we have a coach in there who states what he wants, states what his plans are, takes control and doesnt allow everyone else to tell him how things should be. Ciro and Suckeroni looked vulnerable to all external criticisms and it reflected on the field.

Capello is a cock! Stubborn man who needs to move with the times. Talking about not being impressive....

I would have been happy to get a non italian coach like Blanc...or even bring back Deschamps.

yeah, that's good when u have a good coach/tactician (yes, there is a difference imo). Del Neri is stupidly steadfast in his cock suckingly limited 4-4-2 ideal when the squad was well set up for a 4-2-3-1, a system which he admitted destroyed his Samp last year. Adopting the 4-2-3-1 I think would have given the team more fluidity and control of games as we had last year in the 2 games we played with it. it also would have heavily relieved Diego of having to try to be chief, cook & bottle washer for all of our attacks.

Whether he is even in our plans for this season is another matter as if reports are to be believed then we are yet again going to rely on DP to provide our creative impetus for possibly a 50+ game season. Brilliant foresight by DN if that comes to fruition as I fail to see how our current wingers minus Giovinco and the ageing Camo are going to provide any real creativity.

There is much reason for pessimism this year based on the transfer market so far, though i do hope that my pessimism is proven wrong and we can actually pull something out of the bag this year.

 

[The Dreamer]

Proved to be an excellent coach? He came 11th last season, possibly in the worst season in Serie A's history, 4th before that one and 6th before. Not a great managerial record if you ask me, considering the level of his squad at his disposal. Nothing excellent at all.

There was laughter in the Board room on Zaccheroni and we still appointed him as our Coach. Ranieri is not a coach that wins you titles, simple as that. He creates a solid base group and can be a threat for other top teams in the league, but don't expect to be a world beater with him.

Dunga? Seriuosly?

Zacheroni? Seriously? Delneri? Seriously?

I said your same point about Ranieri. But Juventus are not looking for titles now, they are looking to build a great team from scratch to the future, which is something Ranieri is excellent at.

Zac was appointed because there was no other options.

Prandelli lacked squad depth AND had been there for too long. When a coach stays for too long the squad just lose their fear of him and he already has his favorites and the players he doesnt prefer so sometimes it is better to change. Just like Ancelotti with Milan. In his last 2 seasons he lacked squad depth and had been there for too long, but look at when he went to Chelsea, won the double in the first season.

Prandelli is good. Much better than Juventus' current coach and the last two combined.

 

[Klin]

Zacheroni? Seriously? Delneri? Seriously?

I said your same point about Ranieri. But Juventus are not looking for titles now, they are looking to build a great team from scratch to the future, which is something Ranieri is excellent at.

Zac was appointed because there was no other options.

Prandelli lacked squad depth AND had been there for too long. When a coach stays for too long the squad just lose their fear of him and he already has his favorites and the players he doesnt prefer so sometimes it is better to change. Just like Ancelotti with Milan. In his last 2 seasons he lacked squad depth and had been there for too long, but look at when he went to Chelsea, won the double in the first season.

Prandelli is good. Much better than Juventus' current coach and the last two combined.

I don't know what you're trying to point out.

Ranieri did good, but he's the past now. We have to look forward, his job at Juventus is done. No one said Ferrara or Zaccheroni are better than him, because they're not, but he had to be replaced somehow because we were not going to get that important CL spot with him with 2 matches remaining.

Stop overrating Prandelli and provide excuses for him. Admit that with a decent capable team, he still finished 11th in the worst Serie A in recent history. Prandelli so far has nothing that proves he's better than Del Neri. Only hype.

 

[The Dreamer]

I don't know what you're trying to point out.

Ranieri did good, but he's the past now. We have to look forward, his job at Juventus is done. No one said Ferrara or Zaccheroni are better than him, because they're not, but he had to be replaced somehow because we were not going to get that important CL spot with him with 2 matches remaining.

Stop overrating Prandelli and provide excuses for him. Admit that with a decent capable team, he still finished 11th in the worst Serie A in recent history. Prandelli so far has nothing that proves he's better than Del Neri. Only hype.

Master technichan is being insulted against an amateur! Let me teach you a lesson:

For me Prandelli isn't even in top 10 coaches in the world, but Denleri isnt in top 50, he's not on the map. Delneri's coaching assesments were laughed at in the Roma days, Totti said he was the worst coach he's ever worked with. Delneri's biggest club was Roma for 6 months, Delneri got sacked at Porto before he coached them in a single match, same with Empoli. Delneri hasn't won a single title in his career. Sure, he did well with Chievo and last season he was above expectations with Sampdoria, but is this a coach you would want leading Juventus?

JUVENTUS! The club that was coached by Trappatoni, Lippi, Ancelotti and Capello! Is now coached by Delneri....

Prandelli is our player, so he knows Juve and Juve knows him. He is worshiped in Firenze because he is the person that re-made Fiorentina. He took them to the Champions League and past the group stage! Fiorentina.... the team that was struggling in Serie B when they had Batigol and Rui Costa.

He could have started a revulotion in Juve, instead he starts it with La Nazionale.

 

[Klin]

Master technichan is being insulted against an amateur! Let me teach you a lesson:

For me Prandelli isn't even in top 10 coaches in the world, but Denleri isnt in top 50, he's not on the map. Delneri's coaching assesments were laughed at in the Roma days, Totti said he was the worst coach he's ever worked with. Delneri's biggest club was Roma for 6 months, Delneri got sacked at Porto before he coached them in a single match, same with Empoli. Delneri hasn't won a single title in his career. Sure, he did well with Chievo and last season he was above expectations with Sampdoria, but is this a coach you would want leading Juventus?

JUVENTUS! The club that was coached by Trappatoni, Lippi, Ancelotti and Capello! Is now coached by Delneri....

Prandelli is our player, so he knows Juve and Juve knows him. He is worshiped in Firenze because he is the person that re-made Fiorentina. He took them to the Champions League and past the group stage! Fiorentina.... the team that was struggling in Serie B when they had Batigol and Rui Costa.

He could have started a revulotion in Juve, instead he starts it with La Nazionale.

Master technician couldn't realize his squad depth problems and failed miserably in the league? You say Del Neri has not won a title, what titles has Prandelli won? Prandelli was our player? So was Ciro, look where that got us. Very good lesson you gave me there, Sir.

I'm not claiming that Del Neri is a great coach or that he deserves to coach a big side like we are. I'm just saying, you need to stop overhyping Prandelli as the next big thing as so far he has proved nothing over Del Neri.

 

[The Dreamer]

Master technician couldn't realize his squad depth problems and failed miserably in the league? You say Del Neri has not won a title, what titles has Prandelli won? Prandelli was our player? So was Ciro, look where that got us. Very good lesson you gave me there, Sir.

I'm not claiming that Del Neri is a great coach or that he deserves to coach a big side like we are. I'm just saying, you need to stop overhyping Prandelli as the next big thing as so far he has proved nothing over Del Neri.

Let's see what he will achieve with Juve, my prediction is next summer he won't be here.

He should throw his 4-4-2 out of the garbage, when no team uses it anymore in the modern game AND it doesnt suit the players available now.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Let's see what he will achieve with Juve, my prediction is next summer he won't be here.

He should throw his 4-4-2 out of the garbage, when no team uses it anymore in the modern game AND it doesnt suit the players available now.

Yes, thank you.

 

[Bianconero81]

I agree with both of you. Del Neri is a coward and a coach who lacks tactical flexibility.

Prandelli is still learning and hasn't accomplished much, but one thing he has over Del Neri is time. There is a huge gap in terms of age between the both of them, and whereas Prandelli can get better, I don't see a 59 year old Del Neri improving anytime soon.

 

[Klin]

Let's see what he will achieve with Juve, my prediction is next summer he won't be here.

He should throw his 4-4-2 out of the garbage, when no team uses it anymore in the modern game AND it doesnt suit the players available now.

First post I agree with you, not because no one uses it anymore, but because it doesn't suit the current players we have now.

And btw, you wanted Capello in here instead. You know he uses 4-4-2 as well right?

 

[Salvatore]

The 4-4-1-1/4-4-2 that we'll most likely field next season will work if there is a correct philosophy behind it.

And as with any other formation, our midfield needs to know how to play football intelligently (so that will mean we need reinforcements there still). The ball needs to also find the feet of those midfielders instead of them see it soar over their heads straight to the other end of the pitch.

 

[JCK]

I agree with both of you. Del Neri is a coward and a coach who lacks tactical flexibility.

Prandelli is still learning and hasn't accomplished much, but one thing he has over Del Neri is time. There is a huge gap in terms of age between the both of them, and whereas Prandelli can get better, I don't see a 59 year old Del Neri improving anytime soon.

Prandelli is 52 years old.

 

[The Dreamer]

First post I agree with you, not because no one uses it anymore, but because it doesn't suit the current players we have now.

And btw, you wanted Capello in here instead. You know he uses 4-4-2 as well right?

The Mister is tactically years ahead of any other coach.

 

[Salvo]

as long as its more of a 4-2-3-1 in attack and then a more solid 4-4-1-1 in defense we should be ok, its all about being flexible.

 

[The Dreamer]

as long as its more of a 4-2-3-1 in attack and then a more solid 4-4-1-1 in defense we should be ok, its all about being flexible.

I think the best thing that suits Juventus currently is two strikers. Trezeguet can't play on his own at this age so he needs a support striker to help him out.

Amauri is close to useless. Alex is 36, and Diego and Giovinico are not support strikers. Iaquinta could be a sub for Trezeguet (and Amauri 3rd choice), but there is still need for a support striker to take the burden of Alex.

 

[Hust]

Question for the guys who know tactics. So many say that the 442 is old, out dated, etc so if that is what we are playing with this season then what will teams be looking to do against us exactly to ensure they beat us? What is the best way to take down the 442 because when I look at it and who we will field I find that is seems to be one of the most stable formations in terms of shape, especially if the players are organized. Am I wrong?

 

[Red]

Question for the guys who know tactics. So many say that the 442 is old, out dated, etc so if that is what we are playing with this season then what will teams be looking to do against us exactly to ensure they beat us? What is the best way to take down the 442 because when I look at it and who we will field I find that is seems to be one of the most stable formations in terms of shape, especially if the players are organized. Am I wrong?

The way to stop 4-4-2 is to play three central midfielders.

This should allow you to dominate the middle of the pitch and have a good amount of control over the game.

It also forces the team playing 4-4-2 to use defenders as the main ball players (which will usually result in lots of long balls), because there won't be enough time or space in midfield for the ball to be played through there.

 

[Hust]

Thanks Red.