Syrian civil war (16 Viewers)

[Fake Melo]

Israel have bombed the Syrian army for the second time this week.

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/09/28/...ontinue-into-second-day-targeting-army-posts/

 

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[Fr3sh]

The dictators bite the hand that feeds them. Saddam was a US puppet, they supported him in his war against Iran, he turned and look what happened to him.

They more or less funded Al Qaeda, they turned on them so the US tried to destroy every piece of them.

It's simple. It's geopolitical strategy. They use these dictators or extremists for proxy war purposes. When they are done with these dictators, they have outlived their usefulness, or they turn on uncle Sam, the US start publicizing every shit thing they have done, although it was all kept under the rug when they were allies.

When the public sees what these nasty extremists are doing, they beg the government to take action. So they do. They spend a lot of money on military, spy on their citizens, sign laws like the patriot act etc.

God, I hope I don't get the police on my door after this post.

You're so going to Guantanamo Bay.

 

[Fake Melo]

I am taking @X with me.

 

[ReBeL]

Israel have bombed the Syrian army for the second time this week.

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/09/28/...ontinue-into-second-day-targeting-army-posts/

Whenever the opposition forces are about to seize the control of any military site close to the borders with Israel, Israel sends its airfighters and destroy that site immediately.

 

[Fred]

The dictators bite the hand that feeds them. Saddam was a US puppet, they supported him in his war against Iran, he turned and look what happened to him.

They more or less funded Al Qaeda, they turned on them so the US tried to destroy every piece of them.

It's simple. It's geopolitical strategy. They use these dictators or extremists for proxy war purposes. When they are done with these dictators, they have outlived their usefulness, or they turn on uncle Sam, the US start publicizing every shit thing they have done, although it was all kept under the rug when they were allies.

When the public sees what these nasty extremists are doing, they beg the government to take action. So they do. They spend a lot of money on military, spy on their citizens, sign laws like the patriot act etc.

God, I hope I don't get the police on my door after this post.

I don't believe for one second the narrative that the 2011 events were only because "the west" decided to turn against those country's rulers. For one, none of Saddam, Bashar, Geddaffi or any of those did anything that actually harmed the major power's interests other than a lot of empty rhetoric and hot air. Secondly, if we were to go by that logic, then how do you explain Mubarak. That guy is the very definition of a puppet, in fact they should put his name in the Oxford dictionary as a synonym to the word puppet.

No doubt the votes weren't fair but I don't know what you mean by staged and directed ? A few of my relatives who escaped had gone and voted that day but there was no talk of it being staged and directed.

Well obviously they're not going to stage it in plain sight. But when someone gets more than 90% of the vote, then you know it is rigged. I thought those fake elections only fooled gullible Arabs, I can't believe some of you are actually bringing those elections up.

 

[Eddy]

Well obviously they're not going to stage it in plain sight. But when someone gets more than 90% of the vote, then you know it is rigged. I thought those fake elections only fooled gullible Arabs, I can't believe some of you are actually bringing those elections up.

No one ever said they were real Fred

 

[Ocelot]

Don't believe that CIA stages revolutions in countries where they don't like the government? Check out USA's history, check out 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état, check out bays of pig invasion, check out the 1953 Iranian coup d'état.

The US funded ISIS with weapons in Lybia to take out one dictator they didn't like, then they moved to Syria.

It's virtually a fact that the US/various US agencies were responsible for a couple of coups (Allende, Guatemala, failed attempt at Pig's Bay...), but I haven't seen compelling evidence that they were behind this revolution/civil war. Of course they did at same stage support the rebel factions, but I don't think that they were behind it originally.

 

[Fred]

"I don't know what you mean by staged and directed?"

What was this supposed to imply?

If you're saying you didn't mean that they were real, then ok, I probably misunderstood you. But what does the above mean then?

- - - Updated - - -

It's virtually a fact that the US/various US agencies were responsible for a couple of coups (Allende, Guatemala, failed attempt at Pig's Bay...), but I haven't seen compelling evidence that they were behind this revolution/civil war. Of course they did at same stage support the rebel factions, but I don't think that they were behind it originally.

Yup, no compelling evidence at all. In fact I would say most of the evidence points to the contrary, the images and videos of the hundreds of thousands of people at the start of the events in cities like Hama, Homs and others, it can't all be the CIA ffs.

 

[Eddy]

"I don't know what you mean by staged and directed?"

What was this supposed to imply?

If you're saying you didn't mean that they were real, then ok, I probably misunderstood you. But what does the above mean then?

The people outside the embassy voicing their support for him, there were thousands leaving and entering the embassy and it was a pretty big issue over here because the traffic was unbearable. We all know the voting numbers are tampered as shit though.

 

[ReBeL]

Well obviously they're not going to stage it in plain sight. But when someone gets more than 90% of the vote, then you know it is rigged. I thought those fake elections only fooled gullible Arabs, I can't believe some of you are actually bringing those elections up.

I bet they were making fun of these elections in the past but now they are trying hardly to find anything that confirm their imagination of the situation in Syria.

 

[Ocelot]

we are facts now? is it legitimate? yes, is it internationally recognized? yes, so tell me who gets to decide if that legitimacy is not legitimate enough? also beyond doubt this is CIA coup i will provide material on that later on today if you are interested.

Regimes can survive liek that in times of peace through repression, but if revolution and chaos ensues there is no way a regime survives if it doesnt have support of the majority.

I don't regard it as a fact that the revolution was due to CIA influences.

Legitamacy in terms of international recognition does not give you any moral claims whatsoever (especially if the regime was heavily critisiced virtually everywhere), don't know why this is relevant.

As for the last part, not sure I understand your reasoning here. In chaos & wartime I'd argue that it's at times even easier for a minority with far superior financial & military resources to keep in power over a minority not in favor of them.

 

[Fred]

The people outside the embassy voicing their support for him, there were thousands leaving and entering the embassy and it was a pretty big issue over here because the traffic was unbearable.

I'm sure he had his supporters. There are loads of Syrians as you probably know in the UAE, and a lot of them are pro Bashar, so I don't contest that he has his supporters. Those who supported him only because they thought he was a lesser evil than the alternative proved to be right, but those that actually go to lengths to defend him and try to make him out as some progressive president that was taking Syria forward were the delusional ones IMO. Only in the Arab world would you find people that would defend criminals like Geddaffi, Assad and co with a straight face.

 

[Fake Melo]

I don't believe for one second the narrative that the 2011 events were only because "the west" decided to turn against those country's rulers. For one, none of Saddam, Bashar, Geddaffi or any of those did anything that actually harmed the major power's interests other than a lot of empty rhetoric and hot air. Secondly, if we were to go by that logic, then how do you explain Mubarak. That guy is the very definition of a puppet, in fact they should put his name in the Oxford dictionary as a synonym to the word puppet.

I am not saying Ghaddafi turned on the west, but he outlived his usefulness. The events in Lybia didn't start because the US wanted so, but they did take full advantage of what happened. It was Obama's first foreign intervention as President IIRC.

 

[Ocelot]

Yup, no compelling evidence at all. In fact I would say most of the evidence points to the contrary, the images and videos of the hundreds of thousands of people at the start of the events in cities like Hama, Homs and others, it can't all be the CIA ffs.

To be fair, I haven't really looked into that topic as much, would be great if @X would provide us with some quality material on that later.

But I also don't see the motivations behind the whole thing, Assad wasn't hostile to the west in any way, cooperated a lot economically iirc.

And I would find it very very hard to believe that the entire Arab Spring was orchestrated by the West/US/CIA/whatever.

 

[ReBeL]

The people outside the embassy voicing their support for him, there were thousands leaving and entering the embassy and it was a pretty big issue over here because the traffic was unbearable. We all know the voting numbers are tampered as $#@! though.

Eddy, you know more than anybody else that Hezbollah fans can disguise as Syrians. And you know Hezbollah can make any crowds they dream of in Beirut. I do not say all of them are non-Syrians, but why was Lebanon the only example of such funny support?

 

[Fred]

I bet they were making fun of these elections in the past but now they are trying hardly to find anything that confirm their imagination of the situation in Syria.

I don't even understand the stupid regimes who do such a thing. I mean why not make it believable? at least 70%, but fucking 90%+ that's insane.

But then again, some people actually believe its true, so maybe it isn't really that insane

 

[Fake Melo]

It's virtually a fact that the US/various US agencies were responsible for a couple of coups (Allende, Guatemala, failed attempt at Pig's Bay...), but I haven't seen compelling evidence that they were behind this revolution/civil war. Of course they did at same stage support the rebel factions, but I don't think that they were behind it originally.

There are compelling evidence that the US did support rebels in Lybia, no?

These fighters later went to fight in Syria.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/w...bels-expands-with-cia-aid.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ing-influence-of-their-Bin-Laden-faction.html

 

[Azzurri7]

Speaking of elections, a big wealthy Syrian family in Bucharest refused to vote for Bashar during the elections as per the Ambassador request (I can also provide his name if someone is interested but it wouldn't make any difference) and guess what? They had their properties confiscated in Syria. I mentioned wealthy because I imagine if the family wasn't financially stable or poor they would most likely go to vote because they can not afford to loose a house or any property back home. Goes to show you how the elections are staged there.

 

[Fred]

I am not saying Ghaddafi turned on the west, but he outlived his usefulness. The events in Lybia didn't start because the US wanted so, but they did take full advantage of what happened. It was Obama's first foreign intervention as President IIRC.

Yes, this I believe completely. The events started on their own, and then the major powers tried to take advantage of it some way. That is not only believable but very probable.

But here's what I want to ask you, what have they benefited from Libya since the toppling of Geddaffi? In fact I'd say the West has paid a hefty price for it. The US ambassador was actually killed in Libya, and for Europe, the vast majority of illegal immigrants now come from Libya. We produce oil at less than 30% of our pre 2011 capacity, so it can't be oil either. Most embassies and other diplomatic presence is non existent in Libya

I'd say the West has actually been harmed by the Libyan revolution.

 

[Eddy]

Eddy, you know more than anybody else that Hezbollah fans can disguise as Syrians. And you know Hezbollah can make any crowds they dream of in Beirut. I do not say all of them are non-Syrians, but why was Lebanon the only example of such funny support?

Because that was the closest Arab country with the most refugees allowed to vote.