Summer mercato 2015 (80 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mark
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I think people have overloaded the meaning of a thread. This happened in Usenet days of the ancient Internet. Just because there's a thread doesn't mean a rumor is anymore real or not. It doesn't mean something is news or just rumor. It doesn't mean a player is greater or not for having a thread or not. It's just a collection of related discussions. That's it. No grander implications than that.
Threads aren't reflections of a belief system or temples of worship that should be judged one against another. It's just a pocket to shove a bunch of common discussions in. That's it.
Is this so hard?
Threads aren't reflections of a belief system or temples of worship that should be judged one against another. It's just a pocket to shove a bunch of common discussions in. That's it.
Is this so hard?
upgrade over who? and for which people specifically? please keep in mind that it depends on what you say next that i will either give you a 
or a bunch of 
or a bunch of
If you have 6 midfielders+attackers and they are 9/10 dribbelers, and lets say two 8/10 passers.
You are gonna bench 1 or two of those 9/10 dribbelers, because you need to mix them in with a playmaker or two.
When Tevez was the SS, we had a player that could take the ball and keep it+distribute it in the final third. Having Pereyra behind that was fine.
With Tevez gone, we are lacking a player that can do this. Dybala isnt a playmaker, he's a creative forward. If you demand him to keep the ball and distribute, you take away a good part of his game, simular to how Pogba is alot of wasted as a trequartista.
With the current formation, Vasquez would suit this team very very well. He's entirely different to Pereyra. He's a more static player, who's all about getting passes and distribute it, and can combine reall well with Dybala.
Maybe making it even more easy, is more clear for you
Imagine a 4231. Imagine the striker beeing fastpaced moving into channels. Imagine the 3 cam's beeing dribbelers. Who will distribute the play ? No one, they all are best at taking on players. You take out 1 drbbeler and replace him by a playmaker that is overall perhaps not as good, but he'll make the team work ALOT better
@Red do you think i put it simply enough for the statistical majority of 'tuz to understand ?
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Yeah, i proposed that a page or two ago.
One thread. One post per day. All rumors for that day in the post. Edit the post when more rumors come for that day.
Would be so easely to follow. And you can keep player threads
in that case, you can leave it open i guess. but fans wouldnt be talking about Vazquez (this much atleast) if there wasnt a thread for him, so threads should be opened only with strong rumors from the more credible sources. also, if a thread gets closed, that means that the player, as of the latest rumor/news, has either stopped being a target for the club or has only slim to no chances of joining because of too high price or unsellable or other similar reasons. but if some fans would still like to talk about the player after that, then you can leave it open, its not a big difference anyway, except that its pointless IMO. another suggestion would be moving the thread to the scouting or history section after it becomes clear that there wont be a deal for the player but this is up to you mods to decide whats best.
the question is, do you understand what this teams really needs or does that change to you from target to target, because obviously Vazquez is very different from Gotze and Draxler, and we needed both badly according to your tactical opinion. also, are you gonna change your story the moment we get linked with another AM with different characteristics?
now, ill try to simplify this to you because what you say makes some sense when you sugarcoat it the way you like, but while also ignoring the bigger picture.
our current starting midfield consists of Marchisio, Pogba, Khedira and Pereyra. thats an excellent midfield for the high dynamic game we are trying to implode. despite the fact that we dont lack passing at all, especially not in the final 3rd, with a Pereyra - Dybala - Morata front trio and Pogba pushing forward too, there is one problem with Vazquez you chose to ignore for whatever reason is - he is a fairly slow player. and i mean very very SLOW. he takes a lot of time on the ball too. he thrived in Palermo when he had one striker in Dybala infront of him and a midfield to work for the 2 with tons of space to operate. another thing about Vazquez is, he is not a really good player (i wont say average). his passing is also not as brilliant as you make it, by calling him a "passer" and our other mids "dribblers" (whatever that means to you, cuz you make very little sense in your last post). so unless you plan to make 3 better players work for his "passing", he wont be really useful for our teams tactics. i also doubt you have seen much of him. with Dybala missing the last couple of games, the guy had literally no impact on the game.
so, Marchisio - Pogba - Khedira/Asa - Pereyra - Dybala - Morata, this team is well balanced, has enough creative outlets, and is strong in possesion and in a more paced couterattacking game. what they lack at the moment is chemistry, which we will gain after 2-3 months playing together. if Vazquez does come, which i very much doubt, he wont be a starter in this team. he doesent offer enough passing, offensive movement, and doesent create any space (because he is a static player) to justify the lack of defensive work and to bench one of these players. doesent suit this Juve at all. if he comes, he will be a rotation option for some of our starters to get rest or injuries.
and stop mention 4-2-3-1. it wont happen. Dybala is not a RM, Pogba would be limited going forward, Morata works better with another striker next to him and we would need Coman and Berardi to make an immediate impact. stop dreaming about that
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This is the Mark i know!
now, ill try to simplify this to you because what you say makes some sense when you sugarcoat it the way you like, but while also ignoring the bigger picture.
our current starting midfield consists of Marchisio, Pogba, Khedira and Pereyra. thats an excellent midfield for the high dynamic game we are trying to implode. despite the fact that we dont lack passing at all, especially not in the final 3rd, with a Pereyra - Dybala - Morata front trio and Pogba pushing forward too, there is one problem with Vazquez you chose to ignore for whatever reason is - he is a fairly slow player. and i mean very very SLOW. he takes a lot of time on the ball too. he thrived in Palermo when he had one striker in Dybala infront of him and a midfield to work for the 2 with tons of space to operate. another thing about Vazquez is, he is not a really good player (i wont say average). his passing is also not as brilliant as you make it, by calling him a "passer" and our other mids "dribblers" (whatever that means to you, cuz you make very little sense in your last post). so unless you plan to make 3 better players work for his "passing", he wont be really useful for our teams tactics. i also doubt you have seen much of him. with Dybala missing the last couple of games, the guy had literally no impact on the game.
so, Marchisio - Pogba - Khedira/Asa - Pereyra - Dybala - Morata, this team is well balanced, has enough creative outlets, and is strong in possesion and in a more paced couterattacking game. what they lack at the moment is chemistry, which we will gain after 2-3 months playing together. if Vazquez does come, which i very much doubt, he wont be a starter in this team. he doesent offer enough passing, offensive movement, and doesent create any space (because he is a static player) to justify the lack of defensive work and to bench one of these players. doesent suit this Juve at all. if he comes, he will be a rotation option for some of our starters to get rest or injuries.
and stop mention 4-2-3-1. it wont happen. Dybala is not a RM, Pogba would be limited going forward, Morata works better with another striker next to him and we would need Coman and Berardi to make an immediate impact. stop dreaming about that
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This is the Mark i know!
I see i made it too hard still. I'll try to explain from your faults.
You name 4 midfielders. I'm talking about the final third. In top games, there is no such thing as "and half our midfield is pushing up". You are the one complaining we are usually "static and not pushing forward", well thats part of beeing prudent with offensive runs and caring about position.
Fact is, yeah, we got quite a good 3cm midfield. Khedira is as good a passer as vidal. But thats it. Pereyra-dybala-moradzukic, thats nothing that naturally wants to ask the ball and keep it to distribute.
Mandzukic will want the ball in a position he can shoot/head or force his path into a shot
Morata will want the ball to make a run with it, to cross or shoot, he wont stand still and distribute
Dybala is most excellent as a creative player that receives the ball and immediatly seeks out a teammate, OR is played trough the defence. He is NOT a playmaker that dwells on the ball, At palermo Vasquez did that.
So as it stands, we would have serious trouble getting the ball forward. Because there is no targetman or advanced playmaker.
Pereyra doesnt fix this. He's a runner, he prefers to move into space and receive it there and run with the ball. A dribbeler and again, far from a playmaker.
Vasquez however. Not the fastest but not a "llorente" like you make him (without having watched him). He however, can collect the ball and keep it to distribute it. In big games, this allows your 3 cm's to move forward as a unit, while having the imminent danger of playing dybala trough the defence, who can make an action and shoot or set morata alone in front of the goalkeeper.
Remember that bloke Vucinic ? We were trash when he didnt play. Because, he was the only player that could actually hold a ball longer then 5 seconds up front. You really need that to move your midfield up as a unit when facing a tough opponent.
Remember how we got shafted vs bayern ? Well, that happens when you cant keep the ball in the team a second, and you cant just have players forced to go past excellent opponents when its not the right time, because there is no alternative.
its why tevez was so good aside his goals. He could keep the ball, and allowed us to position further. And its why we need that quality in a cam. Badly
You name 4 midfielders. I'm talking about the final third. In top games, there is no such thing as "and half our midfield is pushing up". You are the one complaining we are usually "static and not pushing forward", well thats part of beeing prudent with offensive runs and caring about position.
Fact is, yeah, we got quite a good 3cm midfield. Khedira is as good a passer as vidal. But thats it. Pereyra-dybala-moradzukic, thats nothing that naturally wants to ask the ball and keep it to distribute.
Mandzukic will want the ball in a position he can shoot/head or force his path into a shot
Morata will want the ball to make a run with it, to cross or shoot, he wont stand still and distribute
Dybala is most excellent as a creative player that receives the ball and immediatly seeks out a teammate, OR is played trough the defence. He is NOT a playmaker that dwells on the ball, At palermo Vasquez did that.
So as it stands, we would have serious trouble getting the ball forward. Because there is no targetman or advanced playmaker.
Pereyra doesnt fix this. He's a runner, he prefers to move into space and receive it there and run with the ball. A dribbeler and again, far from a playmaker.
Vasquez however. Not the fastest but not a "llorente" like you make him (without having watched him). He however, can collect the ball and keep it to distribute it. In big games, this allows your 3 cm's to move forward as a unit, while having the imminent danger of playing dybala trough the defence, who can make an action and shoot or set morata alone in front of the goalkeeper.
Remember that bloke Vucinic ? We were trash when he didnt play. Because, he was the only player that could actually hold a ball longer then 5 seconds up front. You really need that to move your midfield up as a unit when facing a tough opponent.
Remember how we got shafted vs bayern ? Well, that happens when you cant keep the ball in the team a second, and you cant just have players forced to go past excellent opponents when its not the right time, because there is no alternative.
its why tevez was so good aside his goals. He could keep the ball, and allowed us to position further. And its why we need that quality in a cam. Badly
If Llorente ends up staying, then beppe would've messed up the mercato big time.
We'll basically be going into the season with 4 Cf's and an SS and the Zaza signing would all of a sudden look like a joke.Would make too little sense in my opinion.
He has to and will get sold.It should be a priority in terms of sales.
We'll basically be going into the season with 4 Cf's and an SS and the Zaza signing would all of a sudden look like a joke.Would make too little sense in my opinion.
He has to and will get sold.It should be a priority in terms of sales.
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