Space & Astronomy (1 Viewer)

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
76,990
#21
Quite expensive journeys that only bring achievements to the table while costing billions. Never really understood the reasons behind it.
This

Human nature is to explore and learn. Without it we would never have sailed miles over open ocean in little more than rafts to populate almost every corner of the Earth. Europeans wouldn't have sailed across the Atlantic to discover a rumoured land to the west. We sent people to the Moon simply because we thought it could be done, just as it will be for Mars.

And for scientific discovery. These are the two largest factors. Space exploration is about scientific learning. Nationalism and pride adds support to these causes and accelerates the time frame, but without them there is still the desire to learn and understand at least our galaxy and our place in it. It's quite difficult for the average person to think in these terms when they are going about their lives in their own bubble, but there will always be people out there looking to push boundaries to see what we can achieve and learn in a technological and scientific sense.

A by-product in space exploration is the invention or improvement in technologies that are used on Earth - high power battery tools, scratch-resistant lenses, artificial limbs, solar cells, water filtration, insulin pumps, CAT scans, camera phones, air purifiers, 3D printing, computer mice, tyre technology, the list goes on for longer than I care to type.

And besides, where do you think the money goes that is invested in space technology, for example the budget given to NASA? It doesn't simply vanish into space on the end of a rocket, or stuck on a lander on Mars. Much of it goes to hundreds of different prime or subcontractors, then to their directors and employees, and back into other areas of the economy via their own spending. https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-report-details-how-agency-significantly-benefits-us-economy
We can do so much more -- with greater human safety, lower costs, and less impact to the universe -- with robotic probes than by sending humans.

Yes, we have a spirit of discovery, which is what got our species out of the Serengeti and infiltrating pretty much every corner of the earth. But we also have a spirit of colonialism and trashing the places we colonize. Manifest Destiny was not a good policy overall, IMO.

We can learn plenty in space without having to shove our fat species egos into every corner of the universe. ;)
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
83,039
#22
Human nature is to explore and learn. Without it we would never have sailed miles over open ocean in little more than rafts to populate almost every corner of the Earth. Europeans wouldn't have sailed across the Atlantic to discover a rumoured land to the west. We sent people to the Moon simply because we thought it could be done, just as it will be for Mars.

And for scientific discovery. These are the two largest factors. Space exploration is about scientific learning. Nationalism and pride adds support to these causes and accelerates the time frame, but without them there is still the desire to learn and understand at least our galaxy and our place in it. It's quite difficult for the average person to think in these terms when they are going about their lives in their own bubble, but there will always be people out there looking to push boundaries to see what we can achieve and learn in a technological and scientific sense.

A by-product in space exploration is the invention or improvement in technologies that are used on Earth - high power battery tools, scratch-resistant lenses, artificial limbs, solar cells, water filtration, insulin pumps, CAT scans, camera phones, air purifiers, 3D printing, computer mice, tyre technology, the list goes on for longer than I care to type.

And besides, where do you think the money goes that is invested in space technology, for example the budget given to NASA? It doesn't simply vanish into space on the end of a rocket, or stuck on a lander on Mars. Much of it goes to hundreds of different prime or subcontractors, then to their directors and employees, and back into other areas of the economy via their own spending. https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-report-details-how-agency-significantly-benefits-us-economy
Don't get me wrong, I was looking for arguments and opinions, not taunting for no reason whatsoever.

I find discovering Earth and discovering space as two totally different things. Over here we're exploring in order to get more resources, inhibit and tons of other reasons that are directly connected to everyday life. Exploring space, however, has taught us that the more we explore the less we know in a sense that we're seeing space expand and not shrink. Those by-products are a great example, I do agree about it, but I question whether those products could've been discovered even without going into space.

Musk has a big idea I'll give him that. He'd like to move people to Mars (or some other planet) but that itself is quite a big thing that majority don't even care to read about as transporting people would be a big issue, just like tons of other things in order to get some self-sustained city up.

I do understand how the economy works. But building a rocket would cost billions and it's given to subcontractors, etc., yes. But the product itself won't bring money back from Mars. What makes the company profitable?
 
Jun 16, 2020
2,348
#23
I've been waiting for the JWST for what seems like years, will be great to see what it picks up.

There is so much going on. The world needed more rivals to NASA and their partners at JAXA and ESA to create another space race of sorts, whether it was countries like China, Russia or India, or private ventures with billionaires facing off like Musk and Bezos. Since the end of the shuttle missions we've been restricted to mostly the ISS and Mars rover missions for excitement.
The industry won a lot with companies focusing only on the engineering problems like SpaceX. Constructing reusable and therefore lowering the costs provides the key in future space missions.

To bad the Spaceship SN8 exploded after landing, but its very remarkable to see what they’ve achieved so far.

Falcon 9 also proved to be very trustable

Should allow myself some time to watch more about Bezos’ plans, haven’t done that yet.

The JWST will be a milestone for humanity
 
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JuveJay

JuveJay

Very Stable Genius
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
64,503
#24
This



We can do so much more -- with greater human safety, lower costs, and less impact to the universe -- with robotic probes than by sending humans.

Yes, we have a spirit of discovery, which is what got our species out of the Serengeti and infiltrating pretty much every corner of the earth. But we also have a spirit of colonialism and trashing the places we colonize. Manifest Destiny was not a good policy overall, IMO.

We can learn plenty in space without having to shove our fat species egos into every corner of the universe. ;)
It's one of the side effects, some people have to touch and feel and taste, so it's inevitable that people will try, and probably die, getting to Mars and maybe a moon of Jupiter or Saturn. Those are probably the human limits and then we can't do anything without some major breakthrough in space travel, could be hundreds of years away.

We already know that we aren't built to survive in these places but we try because we're insane like that.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
76,990
#25
It's one of the side effects, some people have to touch and feel and taste, so it's inevitable that people will try, and probably die, getting to Mars and maybe a moon of Jupiter or Saturn. Those are probably the human limits and then we can't do anything without some major breakthrough in space travel, could be hundreds of years away.

We already know that we aren't built to survive in these places but we try because we're insane like that.
Kinda like what people wearing animal skins said in the US Capitol a couple weeks ago ;)
 
Jun 16, 2020
2,348
#26
It's one of the side effects, some people have to touch and feel and taste, so it's inevitable that people will try, and probably die, getting to Mars and maybe a moon of Jupiter or Saturn. Those are probably the human limits and then we can't do anything without some major breakthrough in space travel, could be hundreds of years away.

We already know that we aren't built to survive in these places but we try because we're insane like that.
The biggest argument for people going to space, and eventually staying there is to make sure mankind will survive, no matter what. And after a global pandemic that argument seems very reasonable. But those things are still very far away, scientists need to overcome so many obstacles such as arriving safe at Mars, being exposed to radiation for a long period of time and there are some biological questions such as pregnancy. Nobody knows what less (or zero) gravity will do with a women’s body when she’s with child. But these are probably questions that generations in the future will have to answer, still to far away for us. It’s more likely that we will see humanity setting up a proper base at the Moon or Mars instead of seeing a city full of people being build, if that’s even possible of course, as it has to become self sustainable at some point, and than we need terraforming, a magnetic field etc.

Besides that we need people to get into space in order to fully understand the impact our body will have, and of course to find solutions for that. It are questions robots simply can’t answer for us. We’re highly dependable of robots but not yet as far that they fully replace humans work, as seen with famous spacewalks for example.

That are the survival arguments but the other side is the possibility of understanding more about our existence, finding (liquid) water and potentially a form of life as in bacteria (not yet found of course), but you definitely feel the sense that we’re getting there. Seems very unlikely that we’re the only form of life in the universe.
 

il brutto

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
9,643
#27
The biggest argument for people going to space, and eventually staying there is to make sure mankind will survive, no matter what. And after a global pandemic that argument seems very reasonable. But those things are still very far away, scientists need to overcome so many obstacles such as arriving safe at Mars, being exposed to radiation for a long period of time and there are some biological questions such as pregnancy. Nobody knows what less (or zero) gravity will do with a women’s body when she’s with child. But these are probably questions that generations in the future will have to answer, still to far away for us. It’s more likely that we will see humanity setting up a proper base at the Moon or Mars instead of seeing a city full of people being build, if that’s even possible of course, as it has to become self sustainable at some point, and than we need terraforming, a magnetic field etc.

Besides that we need people to get into space in order to fully understand the impact our body will have, and of course to find solutions for that. It are questions robots simply can’t answer for us. We’re highly dependable of robots but not yet as far that they fully replace humans work, as seen with famous spacewalks for example.

That are the survival arguments but the other side is the possibility of understanding more about our existence, finding (liquid) water and potentially a form of life as in bacteria (not yet found of course), but you definitely feel the sense that we’re getting there. Seems very unlikely that we’re the only form of life in the universe.
Why would anyone want to live on Mars or the moon though? They are vastly inferior places for humans to live in for multiple reasons. We have the perfect planet here with recourses to support life.
 

Fab Fragment

Senior Member
Dec 22, 2018
1,268
#28
Why would anyone want to live on Mars or the moon though? They are vastly inferior places for humans to live in for multiple reasons. We have the perfect planet here with recourses to support life.
One can play the president of the entire moon or Mars. So what that there is only one person on the moon or Mars.
 
Jun 16, 2020
2,348
#29
Why would anyone want to live on Mars or the moon though? They are vastly inferior places for humans to live in for multiple reasons. We have the perfect planet here with recourses to support life.
Well I’m definitely having troubles finding arguments to live there, first people who will go there will probably see it as their life work.

Preserverance will arrive at Mars after exactly one month btw:
 
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JuveJay

JuveJay

Very Stable Genius
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
64,503
#30
The leading sell and end game for Mars is to found a colony to protect the species in the event of global catastrophe. That is the only thing that could warrant the cost and risk of sending people there on one or two way missions.

It sounds fanciful now but don't be surprised to see Moon bases within our lifetime. NASA is planning the manned Artemis mission in 2024 and for a sustained lunar presence by 2028. Once those difficulties have been faced over decades it could be a prelude to doing the same on Mars.

The preliminary goals are purely for scientific, and prestigious reasons, with the potential for economic importance in the distant future. The search for potential alien life or past signs of life, search for water and minerals, the evolution of the planet and possible parallels on Earth. But before that there would need to be a lot of work done with robotics on the Moon and Mars before people go through with their suicide mission.
 

lgorTudor

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2015
27,964
#36
Just take a deep breath to understand what is happening.

We get to sit in our homes and watch photography from Mars, posted by a bot on social media.

(Which generates fewer clicks than influencers shilling cosmetics.)
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
76,990
#40
Amazing how they hid all the green men who looked like Elon Musk from the cameras

 
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