[SPA] La Liga 2009/2010 (21 Viewers)

[JBF]

I'll stick my neck out and say Samuel has been the best CB in Europe this season.

There aren't enough guys like him left: tough, no nonsense, man-marking CBs.

There are very few top players left who are comfortable playing as a man-marker any more.

Again, this isn't based on this season as that's settled. only a fool would argue that Puyol has been better than Samuel. But in the past 4 seasons Puyol has been playing some of his best football as a defender, carrying barca's defense on his shoulders in the two notable seasons of 2005 and 2006 while their first CL this decade was also due to some heroic displays from him. While Samuel was struggling with an inter team that could only dream of 3rd spot after each disappointing season. Even after those two seasons, Puyol was a rock solid with his NT winning the Euro 08 with good performances when Samuel was struggling in Europe this time.

 

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[Fred]

I don't think playing high is that tough for a CB. It is arguably easier that sitting off and there being space for forwards to run at you.

I've always though Puyol was good, but never great. I actually think he is often at his best when playing RB.



I'll stick my neck out and say Samuel has been the best CB in Europe this season.

There aren't enough guys like him left: tough, no nonsense, man-marking CBs.

There are very few top players left who are comfortable playing as a man-marker any more.

I don't agree about defenders in high defensive lines. In fact few defenders can play in an extremely high defensive line in an attacking team like Barca and still maintain their status as one of the best defenders in Europe. Puyol and Pique are often left to defend individually against strikers with there being a lot of space for the striker to take advantage of.

In a deep defensive line like the one Inter adopt, There is little space between the keeper and the centerbacks, that more than often works in the defenders favor. Samuel struggled when forced to play a high defensive line with Real Madrid.

I agree about Samuel being the best CB in Europe this season.

True, but can you honestly compare those two, Puyol and him, in the past 5 seasons and tell me how can you honestly rate him higher than the Spaniard? It is afterall your list that was classifying them over the course of the past 4-5 seasons right? you've clearly considered Samuel over Puyol solely based on this season which isn't fair at all to the barca captain.

I said that Samuel was better than Puyol this season, nothing more. When putting names for the best CB's in the past 4-5 years, i didn't put them in any particular order, i can't be bothered to try and remember how each of them performed in each season.

 

[Fred]

You'll get no sense out of the Barca fanboys on here.

How convenient is that, just brush off peoples opinions by claiming they're fanboys.

 

[JBF]

Puyol has been on the slide for a couple of years or so.

I've never claimed otherwise.

You'll get no sense out of the Barca fanboys on here.

Fuck Barca but credit where it's deserved.

 

[JBF]

I said that Samuel was better than Puyol this season, nothing more. When putting names for the best CB's in the past 4-5 years, i didn't put them in any particular order, i can't be bothered to try and remember how each of them performed in each season.

Puyol wasn't even on that list before you edited it fred hence the confusion

 

[Fred]

Puyol wasn't even on that list before you edited it fred hence the confusion

I didn't edit anything, i added another list.

 

[blondu]

How convenient is that, just brush off peoples opinions by claiming they're fanboys.

Fuck Barca but credit where it's deserved.

give Caesar what belongs to Caesar...

 

[Red]

Again, this isn't based on this season as that's settled. only a fool would argue that Puyol has been better than Samuel. But in the past 4 seasons Puyol has been playing some of his best football as a defender, carrying barca's defense on his shoulders in the two notable seasons of 2005 and 2006 while their first CL this decade was also due to some heroic displays from him. While Samuel was struggling with an inter team that could only dream of 3rd spot after each disappointing season. Even after those two seasons, Puyol was a rock solid with his NT winning the Euro 08 with good performances when Samuel was struggling in Europe this time.

Prior to the last couple of years, I was only watching Puyol in the CL, so I have a limited view of how he did.

I consider Samuel a better defender than Puyol, but I consider Puyol the better footballer.

Overall, I would say they, at the best, are of a similar level.

I don't agree about defenders in high defensive lines. In fact few defenders can play in an extremely high defensive line in an attacking team like Barca and still maintain their status as one of the best defenders in Europe. Puyol and Pique are often left to defend individually against strikers with there being a lot of space for the striker to take advantage of.

I don't think Barca CBs are left exposed all that often.

The team's ability to maintain possession, coupled with the brilliant pressing of the ball Barca do as a team mean that I don't think they have it all that tough.

There is space in behind, but Valdes is pretty good at acting sweeper, so there isn't actually a huge amount of space to expose in most cases.

In a deep defensive line like the one Inter adopt, There is little space between the keeper and the centerbacks, that more than often works in the defenders favor. Samuel struggled when forced to play a high defensive line with Real Madrid.

I didn't see much of Samuel at Real, so I can't really comment on that.

What I will say is that I'm sure that Real Madrid team did not work as hard or as well as this Barca team when it comes to pressing the ball and protecting the CBs.

 

[Nicholas]

How convenient is that, just brush off peoples opinions by claiming they're fanboys.

When people mention Puyol being one of the best I switch off because it's bullshit.

 

[JBF]

Over the past 4-5 years, the best center backs for me have been in no particular order:

Vidic, Terry, Ferdinand, Samuel, Puyol, Carvalho and Chiellini.


This season however the likes of Rio, Terry, Vidic and Carvalho have been either injured or off form. The best centerbacks performance wise this season have been imho(again in no particular order):

Pique, Lucio, Samuel, Juan and Puyol

I didn't edit anything, i added another list.

This wasn't the post before you edited it, it was exactly like this:

Over the past 4-5 years, the best center backs for me have been in no particular order:

Vidic, Terry, Ferdinand, Samuel, Carvalho and Chiellini.

With no Puyol name on it and with Samuel's and certainly no list of best centerbacks this season.

 

[Fred]

Prior to the last couple of years, I was only watching Puyol in the CL, so I have a limited view of how he did.

I consider Samuel a better defender than Puyol, but I consider Puyol the better footballer.

Overall, I would say they, at the best, are of a similar level.



I don't think Barca CBs are left exposed all that often.

The team's ability to maintain possession, coupled with the brilliant pressing of the ball Barca do as a team mean that I don't think they have it all that tough.

There is space in behind, but Valdes is pretty good at acting sweeper, so there isn't actually a huge amount of space to expose in most cases.



I didn't see much of Samuel at Real, so I can't really comment on that.

What I will say is that I'm sure that Real Madrid team did not work as hard or as well as this Barca team when it comes to pressing the ball and protecting the CBs.

You're right, i was talking in a general sense, playing a high line is often very risky, the reasons Barca's defenders aren't left exposed too often is because of the way Barca press their opponents into giving up the ball before they even reach the final third, also because they keep the ball for most of the game, so in Barca's case their high line doesn't leave them exposed because they master it so well not because the high line is easier to implement for defenders.

A better example would be us, we play a high line and our midfielders are most of the time(with the exception of Song perhaps) clueless when it comes to closing down space and protecting their defenders, so good defenders like Gallas are left exposed too much and are made to look amateur at times.

 

[Fred]

This wasn't the post before you edited it, it was exactly like this:


With no Puyol name on it and with Samuel's and certainly no list of best centerbacks this season.

I don't think so.

Red you can see my pre edited post right? Was Puyols name not there in the list of best centerbacks in the past 4-5 years?

When people mention Puyol being one of the best I switch off because it's bullshit.

Its not as far off as you make it sound.

 

[blondu]

red...100 matches or how many does pep has...he didn't lost at 2 goals margin...until they met inter...that says something.

 

[Nicholas]

I don't think so.

Red you can see my pre edited post right? Was Puyols name not there in the list of best centerbacks in the past 4-5 years?



Its not as far off as you make it sound.

But it is.

 

[Nicholas]

red...100 matches or how many does pep has...he didn't lost at 2 goals margin...until they met inter...that says something.

That tells me that La Liga is a wank league.

 

[Fred]

But it is.

Its not.


Ok this will go on forever

 

[Nicholas]

Its not.


Ok this will go on forever

Puyol struggles against Pace because his tactical positioning is very poor. Pique is the better of the two because he has a better footballing brain.

 

[JBF]

If Puyol happened to be a Brazilian im sure Nick wouldn't have had so much hard time accepting him.

 

[Red]

When people mention Puyol being one of the best I switch off because it's bullshit.

Defoe > Rooney?

Best disregard your views.

You're right, i was talking in a general sense, playing a high line is often very risky, the reasons Barca's defenders aren't left exposed too often is because of the way Barca press their opponents into giving up the ball before they even reach the final third, also because they keep the ball for most of the game, so in Barca's case their high line doesn't leave them exposed because they master it so well not because the high line is easier to implement for defenders.

A better example would be us, we play a high line and our midfielders are most of the time(with the exception of Song perhaps) clueless when it comes to closing down space and protecting their defenders, so good defenders like Gallas are left exposed too much and are made to look amateur at times.

So you accept it's Barca's system that makes Puyol look good?

I don't think so.

Red you can see my pre edited post right? Was Puyols name not there in the list of best centerbacks in the past 4-5 years?

Dunno.

I thought you just added the second list.

I think Puyol was in the original list, but I can't be sure.

 

[Nicholas]

If Puyol happened to be a Brazilian im sure Nick wouldn't have had so much hard time accepting him.

I'll choose to ignore such a ignorant post.