Should Beppe Marotta be sacked? (9 Viewers)

[baggio]

Everyone can seal the deal for players over 15m. It's very easy, Viola want 30 for Jovetic, Dildao want 36 for Llorente. Marotta calls up Agnelli, Agnelli calls up a board meeting and there is a discussion if those funds should be freed. Marotta pleas his case to the board and they decide.

Dildao

Marrotta doesn't make these calls on the 27th of August. Marrotta and Agnelli go into the Market knowing full well that a category of players they are dealing with are in the region of 30m give or take a couple of million, on their ability to negotiate. Instead, Marrotta chose thhe hardline of not going into negotiations where the asking fee was high. That will not work in these conditions and we knew it all along but he didn't adapt. Next year isn't going to be any easier. And Llorente is not going to be coming for free if that's what you're thinking. Everyone will be in on him.

Difficult to assess how he has done without the facts. Nobody knows the budget that he has been set and it looks like no "top" strikers have been available this window (other than llorente).

Obviously I would love a top player arriving but do not want us to sign a striker for the sake of it, nor do I want us to burst the bank if we do not think we can afford it.

Think we could do with a left back, but I guess they will go for asamoah in 3-5-2 with de Ceglie backup and paolo in 4-3-3 with Chiellini backup. Think we should keep zeigler for backup.

Do you really think we went into the Market for objectives like Cavani, JoJo, Dzeko and Higuain with a small budget being fully aware of the mercato conditions and what we were dealing with? ! There is no excuse whatsoever. We settled on Llorente coz he came at about 20m coz we penny pinched. If we were focussed on a certain pool of players, and I don't mean pipe dreams like RVP given his wages, we would've had one decent forward by now. A panic buy like Bendtner three seasons after offloading Trezeguet is shameful. Absolutely amd utterly shameful.

---------- Post added 31.08.2012 at 17:06 ----------

I don't know. The market has changed since Moggi. At the moment we just do not have the money to compete with clubs like City, PSG or Chelsea. I'm pretty sure many transfers failed because of the transfer money, not the wages.

But here is where you have to be willing to take a hit on an extra 5mi to get your guy. So that you can reverse the effect of panic buying and waiting for Bendtner at the end of every mercato. The extra 5m could get you a guy whose value will be incremental in the long run and will help create a fair image for the club in europe, and if he takes off like he likely would, he'd pay for himself of the field with his image. Unfortunately, we are not willing to go the distance for one marquee signing and justify that by saying it's difficult to buy for juve. Which is not true at all.

 

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[Salvatore]

Marotta apologists will continue to apologize for his failures. No one is saying the man should be sacked, well not yet anyway, but he should definitely be held accountable and responsible in his failure to address the team's main weakness. I am pissed that he didn't get us the Top Player in attack, and even more so with the acquisition of that useless lump Bendtner.

I personally feel we should wait and see how the season pans out. However, having said that, I feel Marotta is a limited DS and has taken us as far as he can go, kind of like Ranieri when he was coach here. He might make the squad solid, add depth, but he will never be able to make that quality signing in attack. We need someone with more vision, ambition, and the ability to perhaps be a more fierce negotiator and closer.

Again, I think everyone is disappointed in the lack of signing in attack. And with the signing of Bendtner.

I agree with the sentence in lime.

Actually, I'm interested to see what this club even has planned as we look at the ongoing season. We have Immobile and Gabbiadini out at different teams in Serie A, where they're likely to get a good amount of games. Signings like Bonatini are perhaps way too young to consider. Would be interesting if Immobile tears up Serie A until January, could look at the option of taking him back. That's all we can do now, look to the forwards that are being developed.

 

[baggio]

Actually, I'm interested to see what this club even has planned as we look at the ongoing season. We have Immobile and Gabbiadini out at different teams in Serie A, where they're likely to get a good amount of games. Signings like Bonatini are perhaps way too young to consider. Would be interesting if Immobile tears up Serie A until January, could look at the option of taking him back. That's all we can do now, look to the forwards that are being developed.

In an ideal world situation, it would be fantastic to have somebody breaking through your own system. But as the harsh reality stands currently, a reference point in attack is what's keeping a solid club from going to the next level. The right kind of purchase would have a fair bearing on our image in Europe as it would on the field. Right now, that's what its going to take moving to the next level. I could understand if this was a first, but what I don't get is, how its happened for a rid year in a row, following the eexact same pattern. Its pretty obvious that Marrotta's capacity is exhausted at this point and his way of working is not going to get us that type of player. IMHO anyway.

 

[JCK]

Too many pages and a lot of bullshit, I leave this thread for good.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

First sack, then investigate the Martinez deal and why was he giving away likes of Giovinco and Immobile.

 

[Cronios]

The ones who followed carefully, realised how incompetent Marotta is, starting from the very first transfer window.
The rest just found excuses... same thing happened with Secco, who was having defenders even at the last moment...

At any case, after 3 years in different conditions, we have seen enough of him to draw a very safe conclusion.
Marotta is def not Secco,unlike that waterboy, he actually is a transfer manager.
But unfortunately not Juve material, simple as that...

He cannot sign players of the highest class+prestige, for various reasons and he is almost as bad at selling players, as a Secco class waterboy...
The transfer director's job starts at the beginning of the mercato and ends at the end of it.
From there, its up to the coach, to take advantage of the acquisitions, or survive with the handicap.
Different coaches shown different results with the same transfer director.
It is misleading to rate Marotta's work by our rank on the championship alone, esp if they vary from 1-7#, we should only judge him from his actual work, our needs at the time, the quality and the position of the players we needed and the prices we paid for them according to their actual value. Also, the sales have an equal importance to the acquisitions, fans only care about the fancy signings, but the club needs to make some profit too, at least stop wasting the very limited resources like we have been doing...

Marotta most of the times has failed to acquire our primary targets, many times repeated Secco's mistakes, most of the times overpaid to acquire mediocre players and sold off decent players of ours. This is a proof that his negotiating skills are horrible.
In an effort to become objective, we should see how the mercato, his colleagues, deal with him,
they know with whom they are dealing with and they exploit his very poor negotating skills...
Noticed what kind of demands they have for him and what they offer for his sales?
Noticed this happens all the time, even from very weaker clubs? This is not a coincidence.

There are many examples of players we have payed a fortune and right in the next year, we could not recover not even half of the invested ammount, without the player obviously losing on gaining much in quality... this prooves that Marotta has twice misjudged his actual value and twice has conceded the advantage to the other side.

There was only one doubt left, regarding the CL and prestige issues for Juve being the actual problem and not him and this summer has proved beyond any doubt, that this was not what was holding us back, but Marotta's poor negotiating skills.
He is simply not good enough for this level, we should keep him as an advisor for youngster and serie A matters and hire a proper transfer manager, for man's job.
This is the best moment to do it, as long as we are the champions.

 

[Xperd]

First sack, then investigate the Martinez deal and why was he giving away likes of Giovinco and Immobile.

 

[JCK]

Cronios for Juventus DS.

 

[Raz]

Cronios for Juventus DS.

You want our club to die a slow painful death out of boredom?

 

[JCK]

You want our club to die a slow painful death out of boredom?

Cronios is the one who knows about our problems most, he obviously cares about the club like no other human being. He knows how to prioritize and considering how bad Marotta is at negotiating it can't be worse with Cronios, afterall Cronios will use the Moggi style of negotiating. Add to the Moggi style of negotiating a touch of Cronios that bores the shit out of any person, his deals will most likely be successful.

 

[Raz]

Cronios is the one who knows about our problems most, he obviously cares about the club like no other human being. He knows how to prioritize and considering how bad Marotta is at negotiating it can't be worse with Cronios, afterall Cronios will use the Moggi style of negotiating. Add to the Moggi style of negotiating a touch of Cronios that bores the shit out of any person, his deals will most likely be successful.

I know, the problem I see that, even if we get top players for a reasonable sum of Cronios $, he would still annoy our team to death, and that ain't a good thing.

 

[Linebreak]

No one is justifying Bendtner's signing. No one.

What you are repeatedly (I don't know if intentionally or not) failing to understand is that there were no realistic options for us to sign a top player, and Marotta should not be held accountable for that. See the fees United signed RVP for, what Bilbao's president asked for Llorente, De Laurentis for Cavani, Viola for Jovetic, etc.

That's ridiculous. If you want a top player, you go out and get one. The market has changed in the last few years, you have to pay top dollar to get your man now.

---------- Post added 31.08.2012 at 23:03 ----------

Jeez, the bitterness of some people. We won the scudetto last year. Marotta was here too, right? Let's see what happens this year, instead of trying to kill the man before the season has even begun properly.

So was Elia

 

[Suns]

Close this thread.

 

[JuveJay]

I think we should spare the Marotta thread the retardedness of now and the next few hours.

 

[Klin]

That's ridiculous. If you want a top player, you go out and get one. The market has changed in the last few years, you have to pay top dollar to get your man now.

I wonder what people like you would have said if we had started the season with no proper backup to either Vidal and Marchisio while competing in 3 competitions, having just Licht and De Ceglie for our wing back positions and not getting back the other half of the master of disaster Giovinco.

A club in a position which Juventus at the moment is in, can't offer to overpay for a player in this market. If you can't deal with that yourself, you're following the wrong team.

 

[napoleonic]

A club in a position which Juventus at the moment is in, can't offer to overpay for a player in this market. If you can't deal with that yourself, you're following the wrong team.

a club in a position like juve? do you realize that's the club who for the last several years been one of the most active in transfer market? one that over pay for the likes of bonucci, and matri? one that wasting tens of millions of euro for the likes of martinez, ziegler, elia, even isla? that's without naming other failures and flops? one that couldn't make any decent money from selling?

and on top of that, we were sent to lower division, and built a fucking stadium?

you talk as if we are some broke club when in reality it is astonishing the amount of money this club spent for the last 6 years!

even if we cannot sign a top player, we should've signed and play some youngsters like immobile and boakye instead of sending them on loan and end up with panic buys and an average attacking force, I wonder from whose decision were those loans come from?

 

[baggio]

A club in a position which Juventus at the moment is in, can't offer to overpay for a player in this market. If you can't deal with that yourself, you're following the wrong team.

That's a fallacy K. We have spent and overspent, and bought like 30 players over three years, and are among the top spenders in Europe. Fresh with an Exor cash injection, that quite honestly enough to get in at the very least one name with a European if not global reputation. We have sold as poorly as we have bought, and when you say overpay, its not by much, given that its a one time fee. That too, on a player who would eventually pay for himself over time. I can understand we cant have a team of Galacticos. But expecting one big nake signing, not for the sake of name shoring but literally a player to help us up our game, is not too much to as by any stretch of imagination. No matter what else was done this summer, Marrotta failed at his primary task. Something that will continue to plague the team. This time across three competitions instead of two.

 

[Hydde]

Although I'm extremely annoyed with Marotta at the moment, I will say two things in his defence:-

1) The Italian league is extremely unappealing at present, none of the other big teams are attracting talent from abroad either.

2) As a result of this, all transactions are occurring between Italian based teams. But nobody is gonna sell their prized assets on the cheap or to a direct rival when they know there's a possibility one of the oil teams could pay a larger sum.

Althought im annoyed as fuck for missing Cavani,jovetic,RVP and llorente, (and on top of that getting that arsenal dude....), i have to agree with what u said.

Marotta is at fault no doubt.... but when u have this huge issues against you, its very difficult to get the job done. Serie A is turning into a 3rd rate league pretty fast. Now, we are the only decent team in the league, maybe with inter and Napoli, and we need to see how promising fiorentina can get..... but the rest is just fodder to be sincere.

No high calibre player on their right mind would come to this rats hole, when u have superb leagues like the spanish or the EPL, who can offer a good media coverage, good opponents, hella good money and what not..... its a no brainer really.

Even the almighty Juventus is not as appealing as the Juventus from 15 years ago. We have to accept that and try to get back to the top on our own, stop being delusional and living of past glory.

This process will take who knows how long, but at least we can do our part and kick some butts in the CL to let the world know that we still exist.

That being said, yeh i also think marotta needs to step up little.

 

[Klin]

a club in a position like juve? do you realize that's the club who for the last several years been one of the most active in transfer market? one that over pay for the likes of bonucci, and matri? one that wasting tens of millions of euro for the likes of martinez, ziegler, elia, even isla? that's without naming other failures and flops? one that couldn't make any decent money from selling?

and on top of that, we were sent to lower division, and built a fucking stadium?

you talk as if we are some broke club when in reality it is astonishing the amount of money this club spent for the last 6 years!

even if we cannot sign a top player, we should've signed and play some youngsters like immobile and boakye instead of sending them on loan and end up with panic buys and an average attacking force, I wonder from whose decision were those loans come from?

I'm talking about the same club which with all the bad investments done in the last few years, won the league unbeaten and was a finalist in the Coppa Italia last season, yes.

And Isla is a waste now too?

Yep, we should've spent €75M on RVP as United will be doing. That's like the total net spending of the years you're mentioning combined.

That's a fallacy K. We have spent and overspent, and bought like 30 players over three years, and are among the top spenders in Europe. Fresh with an Exor cash injection, that quite honestly enough to get in at the very least one name with a European if not global reputation. We have sold as poorly as we have bought, and when you say overpay, its not by much, given that its a one time fee. That too, on a player who would eventually pay for himself over time. I can understand we cant have a team of Galacticos. But expecting one big nake signing, not for the sake of name shoring but literally a player to help us up our game, is not too much to as by any stretch of imagination. No matter what else was done this summer, Marrotta failed at his primary task. Something that will continue to plague the team. This time across three competitions instead of two.

Oh, so that makes it alright to spend €36M on Llorente? To bid higher than €30M for Jovetic?

I wonder why we're not in the same position as the Milan clubs are in at the moment.

 

[donpiero]

All right screw this mercato. The apologists will simply come up with every kind of excuse to defend this guy's failure.
So considering we didn't spend to buy that "top player", plus adding another 15 mil of next year's transfer kitty, says that next summer, we would have 30-40 mil for a top rated striker.
Now, don't come up with saying this kind of players' wages will ruin the harmony in our team. Football is a team effort sport, so I'm sure our players are as frustrated as we are about the lack of quality up front. I mean they bust their asses to defend and create chances just to see it wasted by the wastefulness of our forwards. How many times did we saw Gigi jumping up and down, cursing at our missed clear opportunities?
I'm sure if they were asked, they would all agree that considering today's market, an exception in our wage structure is needed in order to fix this issue.

All I'm saying is that, there is no excuse at all left for Beep Marotta, for not being able to sign a top rated striker, come next Summer.