[Serie A] Bologna 1-2 JUVENTUS (Feb. 21st 2010) (2 Viewers)

[v1rtu4l]

yes ... you made it a bit more clear ...

but you know that even if zacch had a game plan that could work for us, it would take more than a few weeks to install that into the players minds, don't you ?

as someone already wrote, i do like these flashes of good football we actually string together a few times in the last games so i just wish for this to happen more often and i will be glad =)

 

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[kistik]

players' output in the game
http://www.voteplayers.com/Matches/Bologna-FC-vs-Juventus-02212010-6008.aspx

 

[Bjerknes]

Zaccheroni doesn't have time nor is anyone giving him time to make this team play well. He's here for 3 more months and his job is to get us the 4th place.
Is he doing this? Yes.

How on earth can he get so much critics then?

Even a great coach will need time and it's questionable if he'll make this set of players play nice football and superiorly win. Even less an average coach like Zaccheroni can do it.

We all knew this and we all agreed when Zac came that the only thing that matters now are the wins. We knew that he's not able to make this team play great. We at least knew that in this short amount of time he's definitely not able to do it and fix what his predecessors did with this team and with their player choice.

So why do some criticize him for the 3 wins in a row just as much as they criticized Zero for the thousand defeats, for getting us eliminated from CL in December and for eliminating us from every other competition we were in?

I'll tell you why. Because Zac came with a reputation of an awful coach while Ciro is a club legend. Zac can win us the league, Ciro can get us relegated and still the critics on them will be the same.
Ah, the bias.

Again, current events form future trends. No matter what you believe, you can't expect to continue getting results if you play poorly and especially if you make tactical errors. Very soon you start trending towards what your performances look like in the long run. And again, we have seen posts like this before from several folks who want to give people chances and where do they end up? In tears. Has nothing to do about bias -- I look at the performances no matter what.

 

[Suns]

Again, current events form future trends. No matter what you believe, you can't expect to continue getting results if you play poorly and especially if you make tactical errors. Very soon you start trending towards what your performances look like in the long run. And again, we have seen posts like this before from several folks who want to give people chances and where do they end up? In tears. Has nothing to do about bias -- I look at the performances no matter what.

 

[Nicholas]

Andy he's been here only 3-4 weeks, what do you expect him to do work miracles? he's got us the results thats all that matters at this stage. Performances come with more time under a new coach.

 

[rounder]

Zaccheroni doesn't have time nor is anyone giving him time to make this team play well. He's here for 3 more months and his job is to get us the 4th place.
Is he doing this? Yes.

How on earth can he get so much critics then?

Even a great coach will need time and it's questionable if he'll make this set of players play nice football and superiorly win. Even less an average coach like Zaccheroni can do it.

We all knew this and we all agreed when Zac came that the only thing that matters now are the wins. We knew that he's not able to make this team play great. We at least knew that in this short amount of time he's definitely not able to do it and fix what his predecessors did with this team and with their player choice.

So why do some criticize him for the 3 wins in a row just as much as they criticized Zero for the thousand defeats, for getting us eliminated from CL in December and for eliminating us from every other competition we were in?

I'll tell you why. Because Zac came with a reputation of an awful coach while Ciro is a club legend. Zac can win us the league, Ciro can get us relegated and still the critics on them will be the same.
Ah, the bias.

There is some truth to what you're saying. Zac gave us three wins in a row and got us out of a miserable losing streak that that could have destroyed this club had it continued. For this, he should be given credit.

Here's the problem though. He's playing a formation that clearly doesn't suit the team and let's not let the end result of a few games blind us from that fact. Zac changed the mentality of the team, we're a little more positive now, and we're not cracking under pressure the way we used to. Other than that, I see him as really limiting the team's potential under the 3-5-2.

We didn't deserve to win against Ajax or Bologna. We got lucky in both games, we won because of moments of brilliance from Alex, Amauri, and Diego.

All im saying is, we're not always going to win that way. In fact, if we continue playing with Zac's new system, we're probably going to lose a lot more games that we can afford to at this point. We got lucky this week, and I'll take that. I just want Zac to realize that his formation isn't right for this team sooner rather than later.

 

[Nicholas]

There is some truth to what you're saying. Zac gave us three wins in a row and got us out of a miserable losing streak that that could have destroyed this club had it continued. For this, he should be given credit.

Here's the problem though. He's playing a formation that clearly doesn't suit the team and let's not let the end result of a few games blind us from that fact. Zac changed the mentality of the team, we're a little more positive now, and we're not cracking under pressure the way we used to. Other than that, I see him as really limiting the team's potential under the 3-5-2.

We didn't deserve to win against Ajax or Bologna. We got lucky in both games, we won because of moments of brilliance from Alex, Amauri, and Diego.

All im saying is, we're not always going to win that way. In fact, if we continue playing with Zac's new system, we're probably going to lose a lot more games that we can afford to at this point. We got lucky this week, and I'll take that. I just want Zac to realize that his formation isn't right for this team sooner rather than later.

Hows it lucky when the likes of Diego, Amauri and Del Piero show magic? isen't that what there paid to do?

Seriously I don't like the formation(3 at the back) I don't want him here next season but I can congractulate him on what he has done up to now. This guy is a god compared to Ciro. Ciro legend or not was a fucking awful manager and really ruined this season.

 

[Bjerknes]

It's not just performances, but also the tactical choices the manager makes.

But whatever. This discussion always takes place at the beginning and middle of every season. Some folks choose to look at results, others look at the performances, and in the end the results trend to the performances, not the other way around. That's why the likes of Vinni end up being right all the time because he has foresight.

 

[Nicholas]

It's not just performances, but also the tactical choices the manager makes.

But whatever. This discussion always takes place at the beginning and middle of every season. Some folks choose to look at results, others look at the performances, and in the end the results trend to the performances, not the other way around. That's why the likes of Vinni end up being right all the time because he has foresight.

He has not got a magic wand mate. Players who were at rock bottom don't just turn on the *style* it certainly takes time. I've seen glimpse of the *style* Diego especially is looking the player he was at Bremen, Amauri has gained a new lease of life and Del Piero has rolled back the years. If we finish fourth(great) we can then look to appointing a manager in the summer who will have all summer to work with the players on the performance aspect.

 

[Bjerknes]

Most likely we would extend his contract.

 

[Nicholas]

Most likely we would extend his contract.

Indeed thats my fear. It we cannot get a top manager alas Benitez. Then I would settle for someone like Allergi. His Cagliari play some top football. Zacc SHOULD of already been decided that he is just a stop gap, nothing more. I think how well he does in Europa is the key to him staying or not.

 

[v1rtu4l]

everybody from the official board said that he wont be coach next season, still the doomsayers are more than willing to phantasize that he will be the coach next season...

that is pretty much ridiculous... anybody with a brain at least developed like a 5 year old would see that any statement like "its finde if zacch makes the decision for us more difficult" is just motivational and deliberately formulated that zacch could never call them on those statement like "but you said, if i do well, you would keep me". those statements in the grey zone are to motivate him and the team and there is nothing wrong with it.

many here dislike the formation and thats another root of anger of the folks and so they say "this formation is not suited to our players".

well, no formation is suited to our players, if you change it midseason and judge it after 2 weeks. any formation change will take its time and judging the first half of the season right now you could argue ... if you even concede heavy, when you have 4 defenders ... you might as well play with 3 because there is no way that we would concede even more than already with 4 defenders under ferrara.

and until now it does look like the one defender less does not look like a big deal compared to the first half of the season ... one player less in defense we can use in the offence to actually score ...

yeah. i know its really difficult to admit that we won after we changed the formation...

was it only for the honeymoon effect, than we should have won the first game under zaccheroni too, because he did not change the tactics from ciros formation.

 

[Nicholas]

He's had five games correct? 2 Draws 3 Wins?

 

[Dostoevsky]

everybody from the official board said that he wont be coach next season, still the doomsayers are more than willing to phantasize that he will be the coach next season...

I didn't really follow this discussion but we offered him him a contract till the end of the season. Nobody said he'll be leaving IIRC. The rest was just media speculations based on current contract. They could offer him extension if we do good and fail to get Benitez for example.

 

[v1rtu4l]

I didn't really follow this discussion but we offered him him a contract till the end of the season. Nobody said he'll be leaving IIRC. The rest was just media speculations based on current contract. They could offer him extension if we do good and fail to get Benitez for example.

is him(zacch) stating that there is no chance that he will be reaffirmed as coach for the next season not enough ?

yeah, would the could is pure fantasy ... they could as well get samuel l. jackson as coach ... but there is as much truth to this as to any sinister plan to give zacch an extension of his contract ...

in truth it is smart to motivate him with certain statements, because you never know what we might get for next season ... i personally would rather have zacch next season (since he will know the team by then), than NO ONE, because we tried to get those greedy bastards like hiddink and end up with no one (which would lead to nedved being the next coaching masterplan)

He's had five games correct? 2 Draws 3 Wins?

no, that is not true ... thats not how you judge him there ... he had 5 games of playing crap ... 2.5 of them with a crap formation that does totally not fit our players (even when we win, but thats not important right now... its the way we play that matters!)...

 

[Dostoevsky]

I never said we'll keep him. I just said there wasn't any official statement by our board.

 

[Nicholas]

is him(zacch) stating that there is no chance that he will be reaffirmed as coach for the next season not enough ?

yeah, would the could is pure fantasy ... they could as well get samuel l. jackson as coach ... but there is as much truth to this as to any sinister plan to give zacch an extension of his contract ...

in truth it is smart to motivate him with certain statements, because you never know what we might get for next season ... i personally would rather have zacch next season (since he will know the team by then), than NO ONE, because we tried to get those greedy bastards like hiddink and end up with no one (which would lead to nedved being the next coaching masterplan)



no, that is not true ... thats not how you judge him there ... he had 5 games of playing crap ... 2.5 of them with a crap formation...

Hey Samuel what did you think of the game today

Well 'I have one thing to say, I'm sick of this motherfucking Legro in my motherfucking defence'.

 

[v1rtu4l]

he does not even need to give directions .. this look is enough for the players to follow

Hey Samuel what did you think of the game today

Well 'I have one thing to say, I'm sick of this motherfucking Legro in my motherfucking defence'.

and in press conferences: