Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting (42 Viewers)

[acmilan]

anything known about the motive of the shooter ?

probably a bit too early for that as it seems he was the son of a teacher at that school and went there to solve an issue he had with his mother by killing her ... the kids were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. All in all, the two people most intimately familiar with the motive are now dead.

 

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[swag]

You know states like California and New York have the strictest weapons laws in the country and some of the worst rates of violent crime. On the other hand, states like Arizona and Texas, where any random person could be carrying at any time, unsurprisingly have far less assaults, home invasions, car jackings, rapes etc because even the criminals don't want to get shot.

Uhhh, I don't think anybody has ever held off raping someone or jacking their car because of their state's gun laws. But whatever...

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Have you ever watched American Guns? Some pretty regular people on there, but they love things that go bang.

Old Bill doesnt carry gun over there, yeah?

 

[Tak!]

If someone breaks in your house, you have a significantly better chance of not being harmed if you have a revolver.

Would not be too sure about that but this is not a topic I will discuss further after this. I don't live in the US so I'm not accustom to the community. But with a high crime rate it seems like one would only be feeding it or keeping it a float with low restrictions. However of course changing the laws will not resolve the route of the problem. There are much bigger problems beneath the surface in a country sadly going downhill since the past 30 years.

I hope we won't have to see anything like this disgraceful act ever again. US has been too troubled by lunatics like this and I feel for parents future worries out there.

 

[Maddy]

You know states like California and New York have the strictest weapons laws in the country and some of the worst rates of violent crime. On the other hand, states like Arizona and Texas, where any random person could be carrying at any time, unsurprisingly have far less assaults, home invasions, car jackings, rapes etc because even the criminals don't want to get shot.

are you for real??

this is like readin the words of the bishop of jersey shore.

 

[Bjerknes]

wonderful, right up your alley, ha ... didn't read the article but I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that this lawmaker is a republican - best medicine for having too many guns out there is putting even more guns in unqualified hands.

Republicans, Democrats, whatever. Same sort of authoritarian assholes.

That will sure solve the problem - instead of school shootings by students or outsiders, now we are gonna have to deal with shooting carried out by pissed off teachers, driven to the edge and beyond by undisciplined students. Guess that's one way to weed off the bad seeds early on.

Under your (well, the Liberal) original argument, that could happen now. They could become pissed off teachers after becoming gun owners, or they could steal one from a relative, or they could buy one illegally. So it doesn't really matter. If the principal were to have a weapon, someone trained with a firearm, I really don't see what the problem would be... if the principal wants to shoot up his own school, he'll find a way to do so under his obvious insanity.

what a beautiful pro-gun argument conveniently forgetting about the mass shootings carried out by people 21 or older like that theater shooting in Colorado or the Virginia Tech shooting, where those nutjobs bought their guns - some automatics in there too, iirc - from the shop, legally, just days earlier. And that's just to scratch the surface.

He was just making an argument based on this incident. He is totally correct, the guy must have obtained the weapon illegally, which undermines the whole argument that banning weapons sales will save us from school shootings. It obviously won't. Chicago has a total gun ban and one of the worst crime rates in the country.

But hey some guy on a forum somehow managed to make a half-assed, most likely poorly informed argument, as details are still pretty sketchy, how this particular shooting couldn't have been prevented by strict gun control, so screw the other 1000+ that could have and hip-hip-hooray to the NRA.

I get it, everything apart from "ban guns entirely" is half-assed and poorly informed. We get it, you want a total gun ban.

If you don't like guns, then you had better get out of the country. There's no way people are going to give up their weapons just so you can wet your pants over this Liberal dream of yours. Sorry. Going somewhere else is probably your best option (or killing yourself with a firearm).

 

[Maddy]

mericas problems isnt guns. its the inequality and it doesnt give a fuck about the ill, poor and so on + lack of rehabilitation of criminals.

 

[Bjerknes]

Gun sales are out of control, and for good reason. Perhaps Americans aren't as stupid as first thought. Some know what is on the cards.

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mericas problems isnt guns. its the inequality and it doesnt give a $#@! about the ill, poor and so on + lack of rehabilitation of criminals.

Which is partly because of policies you support, mind you.

 

[Tak!]

All you fucking yanks should be nuked. You guys are SO FUCKING IGNORANT AND ACT LIKE YOU WOULD OWN THE WHOLE WORLD.

I hate you all...from the bottom of my heart. Thank you.

I've met many Americans and each one has been very caring and friendly. I understand that you don't like the government but that's not the people. Similarly I don't like Israel's government but got nothing against israeleans unless they are pro mass murdering. Which I think most aren't.

 

[Maddy]

Which is partly because of policies you support, mind you.

and that is?

 

[JuveJay]

Old Bill doesnt carry gun over there, yeah?

There was a public referendum that voted against it being compulsory for regular police. It came into the news again recently when a female police officer was shot dead visiting a 'regular' 999 call. Turns out the guy had set them up and lured her and her partner there to shoot them. Additionally there are Authorised Firearms Officers who deal with armed threats, and then the next level is Specialist Firearms Officers, who are one step below special forces or military.

That's the first such case I have heard, and pretty rare. All of the gun killers in recent years have done it with shotguns, which are the most easily obtained high-powered weapons. You'd still need a gun club license though.

 

[Tak!]

mericas problems isnt guns. its the inequality and it doesnt give a fuck about the ill, poor and so on + lack of rehabilitation of criminals.

Rehabilitation, managing it, is changing though but incrementally. We won't see the effects until many years from now. Hopefully it will help out then.

 

[Tak!]

There was a public referendum that voted against it being compulsory for regular police. It came into the news again recently when a female police officer was shot dead visiting a 'regular' 999 call. Turns out the guy had set them up and lured her and her partner there to shoot them. Additionally there are Authorised Firearms Officers who deal with armed threats, and then the next level is Specialist Firearms Officers, who are one step below special forces or military.

That's the first such case I have heard, and pretty rare. All of the gun killers in recent years have done it with shotguns, which are the most easily obtained high-powered weapons. You'd still need a gun club license though.

Wow that's just awful!

 

[acmilan]

He's right though. There is nothing wrong in having a handgun.

Automatic weapons and the American gun culture are what's wrong here.

there is - if that gun is in the wrong hands. That's where the problem is - how do you determine which hands are right and wrong for holding a gun? I don't have an issue with people having guns, I have an issue with mentally unstable people having access to those ... and the real issue is, it's virtually impossible to determine that.
Medicine, and more so psychology, are not exact sciences but are mostly based on a professional's best educated guess. So, while it may be easy to spot the naked guy in the crowd acting all crazy and shit and certify him and keep him away from guns, it's virtually impossible to determine who the mentally unstable - mind you not ill but unstable - people are who are likely to just snap one day and commit a mass shooting. The pressures of life altogether make it even more difficult as they can built up and up in seemingly "normal" people when one day even something as mundane as being cut in line can make you snap and do things you normally wouldn't.

It's this tendency of unstable people to overreact to simple things that make easy access to guns so dangerous - you honestly think this guy had such a big issue with his mother that it couldn't be solved in a normal way but he had to shoot her and along with 20+ other people? I doubt so but I guess it all points to him seeing it that way at least in that moment in time ... and the readily available guns sure didn't make things difficult for him.

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and I agree that in America the issue is very different than what you have in Canada namely due to the diff in culture/mindset of people here. There are plenty of guns in canada w/o such massacres taking place on a regular basis, so it's not just availability of guns that is the problem here but it sure doesn't make things any better and am yet to see a country where easy access to guns has led to reducing senseless shootings or crime in general.
But that's the thing - the combo of wide gun access and the wrong mindset is what turned America into a war-zone with lots of scared people running around, with finger on the trigger, fooling themselves that somehow that makes them more masculine, more independent, makes them better equipped to "defend their life and property", and somehow gives them more freedom. The statistics of reality is that none of that is really the case - I mean how often does having a gun saves one's life? In movies, all the time, in real life, it's virtually useless. All this, however, just makes it easier for a gun to fall into the wrong hands or somebody get accidentally shot as a result of careless use/handling of those guns by unqualified people - the stats for these are pretty telling.

So, considering how the circumstances in Canada and the US differ in terms of mindset/mentality of the people, readily available guns may not be an issue for canada but they are an issue here with tragic consequences.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

That it's just heartless! Shame on them!

 

[Bjerknes]

and that is?

Financing government deficits through Quantitative Easing. It causes downward pressure on the currency, the banks use the cash to buy commodities, causing prices of food and materials to rise. This does nothing but destroy the middle class who actually have jobs considering we don't get a banker bailout or food stamps.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

If these kids were armed with automatic guns this massacre would not have happened. FACT.

 

[JuveJay]

and I agree that in America the issue is very different than what you have in Canada namely due to the diff in culture/mindset of people here. There are plenty of guns in canada w/o such massacres taking place on a regular basis, so it's not just availability of guns that is the problem here

I think by the time you've spent 5 hours driving through the snow you've kind of lost interest and turned back to watch tv.

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If these kids were armed with automatic guns this massacre would not have happened. FACT.

Sierra Leone is proof of this methodology.

 

[acmilan]

If these kids were armed with automatic guns this massacre would not have happened. FACT.

true. And if the teachers had RPGs on them, they could have taken him out while still in his car on the parking lot.


in the related news tomorrow:

We need to allocate a drone, a F-16 and a F-22 for every school and movie theater in the US so they can drop smart bombs on anyone with the intention to commit such mass murders. Bombs are smart enough already so they don't end up leveling said schools and movie theaters with the ground. And in the rare occasions they do, well, those people would have died anyway.

- petition signed by republican lawmakers and the NRA via Lockheed Martin.

disclaimer: I actually fully expect to see the above come into reality one day not too far from now.

 

[Maddy]

Financing government deficits through Quantitative Easing. It causes downward pressure on the currency, the banks use the cash to buy commodities, causing prices of food and materials to rise. This does nothing but destroy the middle class who actually have jobs considering we don't get a banker bailout or food stamps.

oh okay. you mind showin me some empirical evidence to your claim that it does nothing but destroy the middle class.

btw you have no clue on what i support or dont support. especially when it comes to economics.