Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (69 Viewers)

[kappa96]

The Red Army was really no better than the Wehrmacht.

Two different ideologies, but still so similar in their ways of doing things.

Yeah. Pretty much.
We had close time with Germany back then and the holocaust happened in my country also.
My government was a fascist one at the start of the second world War.
As usually the innocent civilians are stuck in the middle and they receive the hard end of the deal.
But as you said, our old people witnessed a lot of things, but the red army "liberation" wasn't such a great deal.

It's like when you're neighbor invites himself in your home , starts drinking and eating all your food, harasses your wife, confines you in the bathroom and refuses to leave, until you sign papers that let's his brother become the owner of the apartment/house.
That kind of LIBERATION.

 

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[duranfj]

The Red Army was really no better than the Wehrmacht.

Two different ideologies, but still so similar in their ways of doing things.

Huge difference! Wehrmacht were killing people because their religion, skin, sexual orientation.... Red army kills everyone not matter what

 

[U Picciriddu]

Our news are incorrect, but they have nothing on RT. RT talks we are nazis, junkies , etc. Our news are your typical war propaganda, RT and the likes are detached from reality completely.

May I ask.. whats the general opinion among men. Everybody willing to take up arms?

 

[BayernFan]

That’s too reductive again, and would require going into cold war causality, which again equals to: not that simple. You need to include broader implications of what wouldve happened had the third reich won and then your analysis becomes a bit more complicated than a three line post.


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For the sake of humanity was it good the Hitlerites didn't win. Waffen SS and the likes winning would mean the end to most Slavic people.

But the best thing would've been the collapse of the Soviet Union before the end of WW2, but that would probably also have meant victory for Nazi Germany. I can't see the Western Allies mounting a succesful invasion of Western Europe without the Eastern Front tying up 80% of German forces.

Churchill wanting to fight the Soviets just after WW2 was over was of course ludicrous at the time, but he was totally right in the sense of the danger that were to follow with so much of Eastern Europe in Soviet hands.

Communism is maybe a beautiful idea of the "perfect society", but it has always failed whereever it was implemented, hence it's no different to Nazism imo.

 

[Kopanja]

May I ask.. whats the general opinion among men. Everybody willing to take up arms?

of course not, most are scared, families, kids, etc
But a lot of people are willing to take arms indeed.

 

[Nzoric]

For the sake of humanity was it good the Hitlerites didn't win. Waffen SS and the likes winning would mean the end to most Slavic people.

But the best thing would've been the collapse of the Soviet Union before the end of WW2, but that would probably also have meant victory for Nazi Germany. I can't see the Western Allies mounting a succesful invasion of Western Europe without the Eastern Front tying up 80% of German forces.

Churchill wanting to fight the Soviets just after WW2 was over was of course ludicrious at the time, but he was totally right in the sense of the danger that were to follow with so much of Eastern Europe in Soviet hands.

Communism is maybe a beautiful idea of the "perfect society", but it has always failed whereever it was implemented, hence it's no different to Nazism imo.

Or; the US couldve helped rebuild the soviet union instead of pushing brinksmanship from the get go. The issue with ussr isnt communism, its that it was completely closed around itself and had to balance rebuilding while keeping up with armaments to ensure MAD. The ideology itself is besides the point here, the situation was destined to fail without help from the only country that truly profited from WW2.

The above was pretty much ruled out a few years after WW2. And wouldve been the only ‘happy’ ending without complete US world hegemony.


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[BayernFan]

Or; the US couldve helped rebuild the soviet union instead of pushing brinksmanship from the get go. The issue with ussr isnt communism, its that it was completely closed around itself and had to balance rebuilding while keeping up with armaments to ensure MAD. The ideology itself is besides the point here, the situation was destined to fail without help from the only country that truly profited from WW2.

The above was pretty much ruled out a few years after WW2. And wouldve been the only ‘happy’ ending without complete US world hegemony.


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Sure, the US also shot it self in the foot numerous times. Whenever they heard the word "social" they instantly think of communism, and the problem is that many Americans don't understand how socialism works and why many Scandinavian countries are Socialdemocratic for instance.

The Americans also fucked up big time in Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh wanted American aid, but the Americans refused so because he was a believer in communism, although it was more for the sake of gaining Vietnam independence from the French. He was actually more of a Nationalist at the start.

Anyway, that's a totally different topic but just thought it's interesting to note how the Americans fucked up situations where they actually could've helped for the better.

I really don't think there was ever a chance of the US helping the Soviets after the war had ended, mostly because they only allied with the Russians from the fact that Hitler was around and made war with everybody he deemed to be subhuman/degenerated.

 

[kappa96]

Or; the US couldve helped rebuild the soviet union instead of pushing brinksmanship from the get go. The issue with ussr isnt communism, its that it was completely closed around itself and had to balance rebuilding while keeping up with armaments to ensure MAD. The ideology itself is besides the point here, the situation was destined to fail without help from the only country that truly profited from WW2.

The above was pretty much ruled out a few years after WW2. And wouldve been the only ‘happy’ ending without complete US world hegemony.


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The US couldve helped rebuild the USSR.
Tell me your joking. The country that starved 10 million people to death 15 years prior.
Yeah, the US should have helped Stalin to keep killing and starving people.

The allies biggest mistake was not amassing a great army to start liberating Easter Europe and then together, they could have liberated Stalin and his cronies all together.

Just read the first 50 pages of "The Gulag Arhipelago" by Solijeltin and come back and tell me that comunist regime was worth helping.

 

[Nzoric]

The US couldve helped rebuild the USSR.
Tell me your joking. The country that starved 10 million people to death 15 years prior.
Yeah, the US should have helped Stalin to keep killing and starving people.

The allies biggest mistake was not amassing a great army to start liberating Easter Europe and then together, they could have liberated Stalin and his cronies all together.

Just read the first 50 pages of "The Gulag Arhipelago" by Solijeltin and come back and tell me that comunist regime was worth helping.

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[campionesidd]

Or; the US couldve helped rebuild the soviet union instead of pushing brinksmanship from the get go. The issue with ussr isnt communism, its that it was completely closed around itself and had to balance rebuilding while keeping up with armaments to ensure MAD. The ideology itself is besides the point here, the situation was destined to fail without help from the only country that truly profited from WW2.

The above was pretty much ruled out a few years after WW2. And wouldve been the only ‘happy’ ending without complete US world hegemony.


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Yeah, because the Soviets would just let America rebuild them in the image they wanted smh
America is to blame for a lot of suffering in the world. The current state of Russia is not America’s fault.

 

[Nzoric]

Yeah, because the Soviets would just let America rebuild them in the image they wanted smh
America is to blame for a lot of suffering in the world. The current state of Russia is not America’s fault.

Ive never claimed that. We were arguing third reich and ussr and nazi revisionism.


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[kappa96]

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I would laugh too if I would make such a nonsensical point.
If I have mistaken your point, then sorry.

 

[Nzoric]

I would laugh too if I would make such a nonsensical point.

Your sides must be splitting after all your posting in this thread


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[DAiDEViL]

Or; the US couldve helped rebuild the soviet union instead of pushing brinksmanship from the get go. The issue with ussr isnt communism, its that it was completely closed around itself and had to balance rebuilding while keeping up with armaments to ensure MAD. The ideology itself is besides the point here, the situation was destined to fail without help from the only country that truly profited from WW2.

The above was pretty much ruled out a few years after WW2. And wouldve been the only ‘happy’ ending without complete US world hegemony.

Wat

 

[Post Ironic]

Sure, the US also shot it self in the foot numerous times. Whenever they heard the word "social" they instantly think of communism, and the problem is that many Americans don't understand how socialism works and why many Scandinavian countries are Socialdemocratic for instance.

The Americans also fucked up big time in Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh wanted American aid, but the Americans refused so because he was a believer in communism, although it was more for the sake of gaining Vietnam independence from the French. He was actually more of a Nationalist at the start.

Anyway, that's a totally different topic but just thought it's interesting to note how the Americans fucked up situations where they actually could've helped for the better.

I really don't think there was ever a chance of the US helping the Soviets after the war had ended, mostly because they only allied with the Russians from the fact that Hitler was around and made war with everybody he deemed to be subhuman/degenerated.

This is true, but you’re going back to the 1920s with this one…

 

[kappa96]

Wat

"The issue with ussr isnt communism".

I miss the dislike button.

 

[BayernFan]

This is true, but you’re going back to the 1920s with this one…

I know, it was also a little off topic.

Just thought it was interesting mentioning as the Americans really could've made a big difference there for the better. But this is all a "what if".

 

[Post Ironic]

I know, it was also a little off topic.

Just thought it was interesting mentioning as the Americans really could've made a big difference there for the better. But this is all a "what if".

Vietnam was a horrific mistake, Cuba a horrific mistake (supporting a tyrant for so long there too pre-Castro), Iran, Guatemala. US made so many mistakes and did a lot of shitty things post-WW2.

But that doesn’t make it any less idiotic to come out in 2022 defending/excusing/rationalizing Putin’s actions with “what about the US doing this in 1960!!!” There’s no place for that.

 

[campionesidd]

Vietnam was a horrific mistake, Cuba a horrific mistake (supporting a tyrant for so long there too pre-Castro), Iran, Guatemala. US made so many mistakes and did a lot of shitty things post-WW2.

But that doesn’t make it any less idiotic to come out in 2022 defending/excusing/rationalizing Putin’s actions with “what about the US doing this in 1960!!!” There’s no place for that.

Oh and btw, Russia and the USSR also did a lot of fucked up shit during the Cold War and after it.

 

[JuventusUruguay]

The Red Army was really no better than the Wehrmacht.

Two different ideologies, but still so similar in their ways of doing things.

There is a reason why Winston Churchill wanted to keep the World War II alive by invading the USSR.