Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (86 Viewers)

[Tomice]

Its staggering how not a single argument you make lands even remotely, and all you’re getting back is policing, ridicule and strawmen.


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Yep. It's not everyone but it is what it is.

The amount of strawman and more so the Ad hominem attacks here by some have gone completely out of hand.

 

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[Strickland]

Basically yes, though if NATO membership would have been off the table from the start then I'm arguing that this might have been a more limited confrontation in it's nature with much less loss of life.
We discussed it before, I disagree that this war has anything to do with internal considerations. I think Putin is much more popular then people give him credit, he is an extension of the people and Russians culture, not an opponent of it.

Thats quite a strange argument tbh, because by your own words Russia is invading UA because they want to and the improvement in relationships between UA and the West made them scared they wont be able to do that in the future, so they had to do it now.

So if NATO membership was off the table then at some time theyd invade in a more limited manner? Meaning what, NATO made them want a full occupation while otherwise theyd be happy with 50%? Much less loss of life? UA soldiers would fight less for their country because NATO is off the table?

 

[Kopanja]

Its staggering how not a single argument you make lands even remotely, and all you’re getting back is policing, ridicule and strawmen.


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oh no, a stupid argument is getting ridiculed. Can’t have that on tuz.

 

[Nzoric]

oh no, a stupid argument is getting ridiculed. Can’t have that on tuz.

None of what he said is stupid though. What we cant have on Tuz is policing akin to the LGBT Twitter mobs.


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[Post Ironic]

None of what he said is stupid though. What we cant have on Tuz is policing akin to the LGBT Twitter mobs.


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Not stupid according to you? Considering the stupid shit you’ve posted in this thread that’s not saying much.

Policing? I didn’t notice Tomice had been silenced and wasn’t allowed to voice his opinion anymore.

 

[Nzoric]

Not stupid according to you? Considering the stupid shit you’ve posted in this thread that’s not saying much.

Policing? I didn’t notice Tomice had been silenced and wasn’t allowed to voice his opinion anymore.

Oh look, he who has nothing to add entered the chat


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[Post Ironic]

Oh look, he who has nothing to add entered the chat


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Yeah, dude. Your posts above are really scintillating, brilliant analysis.

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Serbs gonna Serb. At least you’re consistent. Lol

 

[Nzoric]

Yeah, dude. Your posts above are really scintillating, brilliant analysis.

I made a point on how I perceive the culture here, and how I see the exchange Tomice had here. It was replied to with ‘but its stoopid, and youre stoopid too’. Waste of time.


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[Post Ironic]

I made a point on how I perceive the culture here, and how I see the exchange Tomice had here. It was replied to with ‘but its stoopid, and youre stoopid too’. Waste of time.


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You made an inane point about Tuz being like woke Twitter mob policing and silencing all debate. Tomice made a couple dozen posts today. No one said he can’t have an opinion. No one told him he can’t post here. People argued with him. Disagreed with him. But of course the Putin apologists see that as silencing i guess

 

[Kopanja]

None of what he said is stupid though. What we cant have on Tuz is policing akin to the LGBT Twitter mobs.


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But it is, and no one policing you, Jesus Christ.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Hard to say anything so far

 

[JuveJay]

Shelling from a helicopter? Ukraine with breakthrough technology.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Shelling from a helicopter? Ukraine with breakthrough technology.

The most important part is that russian air defense didn't work

 

[Tomice]

Thats quite a strange argument tbh, because by your own words Russia is invading UA because they want to and the improvement in relationships between UA and the West made them scared they wont be able to do that in the future, so they had to do it now.

So if NATO membership was off the table then at some time theyd invade in a more limited manner? Meaning what, NATO made them want a full occupation while otherwise theyd be happy with 50%? Much less loss of life? UA soldiers would fight less for their country because NATO is off the table?

it can be wrong but It's strange or not only depending on your assumption of Russia end game here.
To me it's annexing/establishing proxies in east part of Ukraine and forcing naturality as secondary goal. I Don't think Russia has real interest in actually occupying western Ukraine.

Dealing of Russia with eastern Ukraine could have played out like the war for Crimea and Donbass, a limited conflict with less intensive fighting and less deaths. those conflict had a few thousand deaths over 10 years opposed to the tens of thousands already and that number will only get worse.

NATO didn't make them do anything, Russia asked for considerations and guarantees on Ukraine status and they were ignored for a decade. Now from Russian perspective they have the casus Belli to forcibly submit the whole country into "naturality" instead of just occupying some of the territories they want. This gives them a much stronger negotiating position to force Ukraine into larger territorial concessions.

Also that rejection of their concern caused Putin and Russia to take this as a sign of disrespect or belittling and and it caused them to go blindly into this show of force (which failed ). I don't think we should ignore Putin ego and dreams of unipolar world. They went up a tree they can't get down from and more people suffer for it.

I guess we will all see what the final agreement between the sides will look like and then in hindsight people will be much smarter on how and if this could have been avoided to a degree.

 

[JuveJay]

The most important part is that russian air defense didn't work

You don't think Russia just cleared everyone out and then blew up a few tankers?

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

You don't think Russia just cleared everyone out and then blew up a few tankers?

there are few videos of bombings

 

[JuveJay]

there are few videos of bombings

Yeah I've seen the vids, do you think they could be false flag attacks?

If they are Mi 24s for example then both countries use them and even experts won't have a clue who did it.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Yeah I've seen the vids, do you think they could be false flag attacks?

If they are Mi 24s for example then both countries use them and even experts won't have a clue who did it.

FSB would have used hexogen
http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9909/24/russia.bomb.01/
Infamous "ryazan sugar"

 

[Tomice]

You made an inane point about Tuz being like woke Twitter mob policing and silencing all debate. Tomice made a couple dozen posts today. No one said he can’t have an opinion. No one told him he can’t post here. People argued with him. Disagreed with him. But of course the Putin apologists see that as silencing i guess

You are right to an extant, I wasn't silenced, but also because I don't really care and aren't afraid being wrong. There was fair arguments from many but not all. But I was called names, strawman'd to death and many people here were labeled Putin apologist or NATO blamer with zero rational.

I know for a fact at least 2-3 other people agree with some of my arguments in private, I got PM's saying so instead of them replying publicly in the thread (none of them Serbs before you ask ).
It does shows some don't want to deal with the reactions in this thread so maybe there is some truth in that

 

[s4tch]

You are right to an extant, I wasn't silenced, but also because I don't really care and aren't afraid being wrong. There was fair arguments from many but not all. But I was called names, strawman'd to death and many people here were labeled Putin apologist or NATO blamer with zero rational.

I know for a fact at least 2-3 other people agree with some of my arguments in private, I got PM's saying so instead of them replying publicly in the thread (none of them Serbs before you ask ).
It does shows some don't want to deal with the reactions in this thread so maybe there is some truth in that

forza tomice, i enjoyed you playing the devil's advocate.

still fuck russia though. i still can't see no rational and acceptable reason for what they are doing. and this war only serves chinese (and to a lesser extent, indian and opec) interests. terrible call, whatever angle you look at it from.