Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (65 Viewers)

[Knowah]

And to add to that because it was brought up, Russia getting on Chinese banking is a testament to how ALL THE WORLD distrusts the Chinese banking and payment systems. Why would Russia, a strong ally of China, NOT be on the Chinese banking system and payment system to some degree already?

It took a series of global sanctions for them to do it out of desperation, not desire. Putin and Russia don't want to be on that system. Nobody does. It's their only resort at this point to not completely collapse their economy. It's not by choice and if this invasion ended tomorrow, you can bet behind closed doors the conversation to return to SWIFT would be... swift and top of the Russian priorities.

 

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[campionesidd]

Yep, the west already threw the kitchen sink at them. not a lot more left you can threaten them with

Sanctions aren’t a one time thing. The longer they go on, the longer Russia suffers.

 

[Tomice]

You literally said above in your initial post that the west did threaten Russia.

Yeah my bad, I meant to say I never blamed the west for doing it, not that it neve threatened.

 

[campionesidd]

@Post Ironic
Do you think some of these people can represent Russia at the next Olympics for mental gymnastics, or will they still be banned?

 

[X Æ A-12]

 

[Post Ironic]

Yeah my bad, I meant to say I never blamed the west for doing it, not that it neve threatened.

But it didn’t threaten Russia. Unless you believe discussing NATO membership is a threat? But even that is silly given NATO status of Baltics and Poland.

What could actually be said is that it’s a threat to Putin’s dream of restoring the glory of the old USSR under his dictatorship

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Simple. A negotiating tactic. Give us concessions and more favorable negotiating conditions or we'll continue to bomb maternity wards.

This is basically becoming a national hostage situation.

Sure, but they could do this without parading their army down main street and be exposed to fire.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

 

[Kopanja]

I personally think a lot of the debate here and finger pointing and "blaming the west" shaming people is because there is a conflation between blaming the west for not preventing this war and blaming them for causing it. I think those are two totally different things but people are often automatically criticized as if they are doing both without making the distinction.

Could've West prevented it? Hell yeah, it was symptomatic where all this going even before the Georgian war in 08, but quite obvious after that when the US let the EU handle it, and Sarkozi and friends threw Georgia under the bus, ran over them, and continue to feed the beast. After that you had green light for Crimea, Donbass, MH17 etc and to full-scale war in Europe. Did the West cause it? No, of course, it's solely Russians fault.
The important lesson for the EU from all this is that the US is the only thing that keeps monsters at bay, and it might be not the smartest idea to spit in the well. Also that EU powerhouses believed in it's fucking Fukuyama's fairytales about "the end of history". I've been saying for years that EU is so lazy, almost dormant and there is a rot here and there. Looks like they've might came out of this crisis rejuventated after some self-reflection. But unfortunately, it is us, ukrainians who will pay the ultimate price.

 

[campionesidd]

But it didn’t threaten Russia. Unless you believe discussing NATO membership is a threat? But even that is silly given NATO status of Baltics and Poland.

What could actually be said is that it’s a threat to Putin’s dream of restoring the glory of the old USSR under his dictatorship

The West did threaten Russia because Russia sees any westernization or democratization of its neighbors as a threat. No different than a loan shark being ‘threatened’ when the local bodega owner gets a bank loan.

 

[Post Ironic]

I don’t know, dude. I’m seeing the opposite from SJW-woke folk right now. “We have no right to judge and condemn Russia because Christopher Columbus and General Custer and Residential Schools.” Lol

 

[swag]

Sure, but they could do this without parading their army down main street and be exposed to fire.

The Russian military can’t help it that the college fund for all their recruits was looted to buy Lukaku and Havertz.

 

[Tomice]

But it didn’t threaten Russia. Unless you believe discussing NATO membership is a threat? But even that is silly given NATO status of Baltics and Poland.

What could actually be said is that it’s a threat to Putin’s dream of restoring the glory of the old USSR under his dictatorship

It is, for Russia. I do not understand why that is such a hard concept to understand.

Geopolitics don't happen in a vacuum. no matter how silly you think the other side is.

 

[campionesidd]

I don’t know, dude. I’m seeing the opposite from SJW-woke folk right now. “We have no right to judge and condemn Russia because Christopher Columbus and General Custer and Residential Schools.” Lol

Yeah, Putler good because USA bad.

 

[Tomice]

Sanctions aren’t a one time thing. The longer they go on, the longer Russia suffers.

Didn't know there was a sanction countdown going off when the war officially ends.

 

[Post Ironic]

It is, for Russia. I do not understand why that is such a hard concept to understand.

Geopolitics don't happen in a vacuum.

That is not the west actively threatening Russia. Or its security. That’s Russia perceiving a threat from their neighbour being a sovereign democratic nation with a better off populace. There is a big difference between actual threats and perceived threats. Not sure why that is such a hard concept to understand.

 

[Tomice]

That is not the west actively threatening Russia. Or it’s security. That’s Russia perceiving a threat from their neighbour being a sovereign democratic nation with a better off populace. There is a big difference between actual threats and perceived threats. Not sure why that is such a hard concept to understand.

Jesus man, NVM. you're right

 

[X Æ A-12]

I don’t know, dude. I’m seeing the opposite from SJW-woke folk right now. “We have no right to judge and condemn Russia because Christopher Columbus and General Custer and Residential Schools.” Lol

I haven't seen any leftists defending Putin at all, most of them want muh no fly zone.

They are also bitching about people only care about ukranians cause they are white with zero realization that the world is paying attention to this not because of ukranians but because of the potential escalation between major world powers

Either way, their takes are hilariously stupid

 

[Post Ironic]

The West did threaten Russia because Russia sees any westernization or democratization of its neighbors as a threat. No different than a loan shark being ‘threatened’ when the local bodega owner gets a bank loan.

Yeah. But I think their is a very important distinction between the Russian regime feeling threatened, and the West actively threatening them. If Russia is threatened by their neighbour becoming a first world country that is on them. They choose to remain a developing world dictatorship.

 

[Tomice]

Could've West prevented it? Hell yeah, it was symptomatic where all this going even before the Georgian war in 08, but quite obvious after that when the US let the EU handle it, and Sarkozi and friends threw Georgia under the bus, ran over them, and continue to feed the beast. After that you had green light for Crimea, Donbass, MH17 etc and to full-scale war in Europe. Did the West cause it? No, of course, it's solely Russians fault.
The important lesson for the EU from all this is that the US is the only thing that keeps monsters at bay, and it might be not the smartest idea to spit in the well. Also that EU powerhouses believed in it's fucking Fukuyama's fairytales about "the end of history". I've been saying for years that EU is so lazy, almost dormant and there is a rot here and there. Looks like they've might came out of this crisis rejuventated after some self-reflection. But unfortunately, it is us, ukrainians who will pay the ultimate price.

That's all I've been saying. Spot on dude, on everything.