RIP Raymond Goethals (2 Viewers)

[Geof]

You might not know him, but the greatest belgian coach ever died yesterday.

Raymond Goethals, aka Raimundo, Raymond-la-science, le sorcier belge, or Raymond le belge, coached the greatest belgian teams, the belgian NT, Guimaraes, Bordeaux, and Marseille.

He won national leagues, played WC with belgium, 3 european finals with Anderlecht and won CL with l'OM (in '93, defeating AC Milan).

He discovered players like Barthez or Boksic.

But back in Belgium, he was known for his direct talking, mostly in Brusseleir, the Brussels' dialect.

He was very loved here in Belgium, and I'm sure they're mourning in Marseille 2.

:down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down:

Repose en paix fieu.


Name. Raymond Goethals.

Birth Date and Place. 7 october 1921 Forest(Brussels).

Player. Goalkeeper au Daring (1933 - 1949), puis au Racing de Bruxelles (1949 - 1952).

Coach. Waremme (1957-1959), Saint-Trond (1959-1966), équipe nationale belge (1966-1976), Anderlecht (1976-1979), Bordeaux (1979-1980), Sao Paulo (1980-1981), Standard (1981-1984), Guimaraes (1984-1985), RJ Bruxelles (directeur technique) (1985-1987), Anderlecht (1987-1989), Bordeaux (1989-1990), Marseille (1990-1993), Anderlecht (1994).



Palmarès

NT. 44 matchs, 25 wins, 11 losses, 8 draw; qualified for the 1970 WC in Mexico; 3rd Euro 1972.

Anderlecht. 1 Supercup (1978), 1 finale of the supercup (1977), 2 European Supercups (1977,1979), 1 Belgian League (1987), 4 vice-champions of belgium (1977, 1978, 1979, 1989), 2 belgian cups (1988, 1989).

Standard. 1 supercup final(1982), 2 belgian leagues (1982, 1983).

Bordeaux. 1 vice-champion de France (1990).

Marseille. 1 Champion's League(1993), 1 Final of the CL (1991), 3 times French league (1991, 1992, 1993).

 

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[Kaiser Franco]

Of course I knew Raymond-la-science. He was a character out of this world. A mix between a chain-smoking Carletto Mazzone (as far as his colourful way of speaking, his age and his common sense are concerned) and a a toupet-wearing Trapattoni (in terms of successes from a Belgian perspective and career longevity at the highest level). Anyone with a good mastery of French must have enjoyed as much as I have his legendary interviews, where he would mispell the players' names in his thick Brussels accent and throw his "bon mots" with that impassive granitic face of his while the interviewer would bite his lips not to burst into laughter. Every Milan fan will also remember how his Marseille gave us the biggest slap in the face in living memory by tetanizing one of our strongest teams ever in the 93 CL final (we had won ALL our games to the final that year and were of course ultra-favourites). Under his management, Marseille reached their peak, and Im sure the French must love the fact that they owe their only CL title to a Belgian. Goethals was already well into his 70's back then, and coached for another few seasons after that, so if it isn't a record, it must very close to it.

Football will miss you, le Belge. RIP.

 

[Geof]

and by the way, in all his career he wasn't sacked once!

 

[Kaiser Franco]

After re-reading his curriculum, I notice he also won the Belgian League with Standard. Would that correspond to Belgium's Inter last domestic consecration by any chance?

 

[Geof]

there are a lot of jokes about standard in Belgium. Every year, they make some transfers and then tell: Ok this is the right team, we're stronger than ever.

But they never win.

Do you know how you can tell a belgian car is older than 20 years?


























There's a sticker STANDARD CHAMPION on it!!

 

[Kaiser Franco]

hehe. I take it 1983 was indeed the last year they printed those then.

 

[Stephañho!]

Correct, Standard never won it ever since.

I just loved the way he would explain over and over again how he managed to outsmart the great Milan! And what about the comical duo that was his muppet and that of Adamo? Legendary!

:down:




PS: I'm puzzled by your knowledge on the subject Kaiser. Are you Belgian yourself and if not, what bounds do you you have with Belgium?

 

[Kaiser Franco]

I am Italian but have been living in the land of Eddy Merckx and Jacques Brel for some time now, and you could even say that Goethals is the first Belgian I saw and heard since I remember very well his appearances on French TV when they would still broadcast it in Italy back in the early 90's

 

[Stephañho!]

Pleased to meet you.

By the way, Goethals said his one and only regret is to have never taken charge of an Italian club! Can you imagine him at the helm during the off-peak years, instead of Rino Marchesi and Dino Zoff? I'm pretty sure he would've been succesful.

 

[Sid]

RIP Raymond Goethals:down:

 

[Kaiser Franco]

++ [ originally posted by Stephañho! ] ++
Pleased to meet you.

By the way, Goethals said his one and only regret is to have never taken charge of an Italian club! Can you imagine him at the helm during the off-peak years, instead of Rino Marchesi and Dino Zoff? I'm pretty sure he would've been succesful.

I think Zoff's era at Juve shouldn't be put down : he did win you a UEFA Cup (back when it was still a prestigious trophy) with the likes of Zavarov, Tricella and Renato Buso in the team. I certainly would have loved to see Goethals coach an Italian side and Im pretty sure he would have done well. What's the greatest single achievement by a Belgian coach in your opinion? Guy Thijs' Euro final in 1980? His World Cup semi in '86 (tho his best team has to be the hit-by-fate WC '90's one) ? Goethals' European wins with Anderlecht in the 70's? Or indeed his triumph with Marseille? And who coached that Malines side who impressively won the Cup's winners Cup in 88 I think and nearly gave the Great Milan a nervous breakdown in 1990? Too many questions perhaps?

 

[Stephañho!]

++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++
I think Zoff's era at Juve shouldn't be put down : he did win you a UEFA Cup (back when it was still a prestigious trophy) with the likes of Zavarov, Tricella and Renato Buso in the team. I certainly would have loved to see Goethals coach an Italian side and Im pretty sure he would have done well. What's the greatest single achievement by a Belgian coach in your opinion? Guy Thijs' Euro final in 1980? His World Cup semi in '86 (tho his best team has to be the hit-by-fate WC '90's one) ? Goethals' European wins with Anderlecht in the 70's? Or indeed his triumph with Marseille? And who coached that Malines side who impressively won the Cup's winners Cup in 88 I think and nearly gave the Great Milan a nervous breakdown in 1990? Too many questions perhaps?

Good, I like questions!

If my memory serves me well, Aad De Mos of Holland was coaching Malines back then -- btw, the appropriate name should be KV Mechelen. The replica of the Cup that all winners are being offered mysteriously disappeared nowadays.

I'm glad that Goethals won the C1 but I'm not one to appropriate the glory of another nation, it still tastes more (well in fact it is more) like a French achievement. The WC 86 in Mexico has to be any Belgian footie fans fondest memory I think. Even though I still reckon we never had as good a squad as that of 90 in Italy. I never stomached Platt's 119th minute goal !

 

[Kaiser Franco]

I understand the feeling. Any Italian who was there in 1990 and with a decent knowledge of football will agree in saying Belgium was THE best team of the tournament with Germany and Italy. It had played a brilliant group stage (Belgium-Uruguay is a classic of that tournament) and outplayed England in that doomed 1/8th final, who then lost the semi to an already panted Germany : had THAT Belgium faced the latter and what I see as the dullest Argentina ever in the final, you would probably have been offered your biggest chance ever at World Cup glory.

 

[Stephañho!]

Thanks for the kind words!

 

[Azzurri7]

RIP :down:

 

[Kaiser Franco]

++ [ originally posted by Stephañho! ] ++
Thanks for the kind words!

It's only speculation based on facts