Quiz (4 Viewers)

[Kaiser Franco]

I am not sure of what point exactly you are trying to make. I never claimed there are inferior and superior fans, and even less so that being in SE Asia would make you de facto inferior. That last bit I refute categorically.

There are all sorts of fans. There are those who were there when Milan played Cavese in serie B and there are the Johnny come-lates who decided they'd fancy that red and black team that won the CL two years ago. There are those who would ponder whether Tricella and Renato Buso deserve a mention in the history of Juventus and there are those who think Furino was a trendy Vespa scooter from the 80's. Those varieties of fans can be found anywhere, be it Europe, Asia, South America, whatever.

Growing up or living in Italy certainly helps acquiring the basic knowledge of the serie A, but if you don't look deeper into it by yourself you won't know a lot more than the next bandwagoner. And today's globalizing world allows you to learn almost as easily and as much on the subject no matter where you live.

 

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[Negative Creep]

Tell me though, have you ever even seen any footage of many of these players? Whats the point reading someone elses opinions and making your own on it.

What happened 30+ years ago, isnt that that important to being a Juve fan today. You can be a fan today to follow them today and for entertainment. You dont need to care about long ago, its a sport not a topic of study. Its pick up and play.

 

[flieeeekke]

++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++
Well done. A few precisions though :

2) Chile-Italy 62.

3) Hector Castro was missing half an arm, if not a whole one.

But Pak Do Ik was not an artist. An artist like Ronaldinho could have used his services however..

Fli : fair point though I'd expect there to be quite a few books or documents about Juve in English too. Surely someone like denco must have got his knowledge of the club from somewhere...

good luck looking for those in lithuania. i really should get my hands on some dvds...

 

[flieeeekke]

++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++

Growing up or living in Italy certainly helps acquiring the basic knowledge of the serie A, but if you don't look deeper into it by yourself you won't know a lot more than the next bandwagoner. And today's globalizing world allows you to learn almost as easily and as much on the subject no matter where you live.

but in certain countries its much easier to obtain the information. football coverage over here is somewhaty equal to that in united states. zero.

 

[sallyinzaghi]

that bad fli ?

Kaiser, I must apologize - that post was the product of my anger elsewhere. Other forums I'm in Asian Juventus fans are somehow rather inferior probably due to our lack of exposure. Some people have actually said it straight to us SE Asian fans. Oh, well.

 

[Nicole]

++ [ originally posted by Negative Creep ] ++
Tell me though, have you ever even seen any footage of many of these players? Whats the point reading someone elses opinions and making your own on it.

Very much agree with you Claire, it annoys me so much when some people think players are crap because somone told them that

 

[flieeeekke]

++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++
that bad fli ?

well sorta. we do get a decent champions league coverage, euro and world cup, but no channel in history had broadcasted any top league, we dont have any football football related papers or magazines, you'll barely find any football memorabilia and if you find any its horribly overpriced. and calcio italia magazine isnt exactly the best way to know your football history. and it wont get any better because no one gives a **** about football

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Fliakis ] ++
well sorta. we do get a decent champions league coverage, euro and world cup, but no channel in history had broadcasted any top league, we dont have any football football related papers or magazines, you'll barely find any football memorabilia and if you find any its horribly overpriced. and calcio italia magazine isnt exactly the best way to know your football history. and it wont get any better because no one gives a **** about football

Hangon, I didn't know you lived in Australia...

 

[Kaiser Franco]

++ [ originally posted by Negative Creep ] ++
Tell me though, have you ever even seen any footage of many of these players? Whats the point reading someone elses opinions and making your own on it.

What happened 30+ years ago, isnt that that important to being a Juve fan today. You can be a fan today to follow them today and for entertainment. You dont need to care about long ago, its a sport not a topic of study. Its pick up and play.

Obviously I've only seen videotapes of them, but then again, I am nostalgic enough to watch videotapes of Milan trashing Madrid and Steaua in 1989, and those feats I did see first hand. Mind you, since we are talking about history, what I read from those sources is, unlike current football events, usually accurate, since time and perspective have given it more objectivity.

But why would the history of football not be a subject worth studying? Like "common" history, I believe that it does repeat itself, and that by learning it you often avoid repeating it. Or indeed you can use it to better understand today's phenomenons. For instance I am always suspicious when some manager is hailed for his "revolutionary" vision of the game. As I argued in another thread, Michels' "Total football" was after all a perfected version of Hungary's offensive style in the 50's, which itself was inspired by Austria's Wunderteam in the 30's. Hence, Sacchi's zone football with Milan was only revolutionary in that he was the first to try it in Italy. Though to think of it the Great Torino in the late 40's....

Also, football is so unlike other sports that it goes beyond the mere study of facts and figures. From Mussolini using Italy's NT in the 30's to promote his fascist propaganda to, say, Roma's Sensi personnifying Southern Italy's traditional complex towards the North, football like no other sports is a reflection of the political, economic or cultural reality of the day. As you may know, Italy has no less than 3 daily sportspapers that are published on a national (and international) scale. While many articles in there should only be taken for what they are - i.e. football articles - some most definitely belong to a literary genre in itself. Famous (in Italy) mainstream journalists such as Vittorio Zucconi regularly write elaborate analysis in those papers. Gianni Mura for Repubblica is quite simply a football historian, and Brera before him was a football poet, as he has created so many words and expressions defining concepts or events that have now become of common use. His wittiness is surely missed btw, as I am sure he would come up with some brilliant descriptions for some of the trends in modern football.

So to sum up, this might be more true for football-focused countries such as Italy or England, but, in the end, the history of football counts already enough chapters to be considered, if not as a science, at least as a discipline.

 

[Kaiser Franco]

Btw these questions remain unanswered :

++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++

I) Juventus questions

2) What was Luciano Moggi’s profession before he became the Godfather of Italian football ?
3) Which referee has allegedly been a president of a Juventus fan club ?
5) To which player did Gianni Agnelli refer when he said these words : "we bought him for a slice of bread, and we put caviar on it"?

 

[Nicole]

Kaiser, I agree with you that it is nice to know the history of your clubs, I too have tried to learn more about Roma and Man Utd, (watched tapes of players like Best, Law and with Roma players like Conti and Giallini)

I think what Claire means is that for a quiz, it isnt always best to do a quiz on something that happened so long ago that it is only in english meaning that it is impossible to answer the questions but for a few people...

 

[Kaiser Franco]

For the record, the answers are :

2) Station master
3) Bazzoli
5) Monsieur Michel Platini.

 

[Negative Creep]

++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++


Obviously I've only seen videotapes of them, but then again, I am nostalgic enough to watch videotapes of Milan trashing Madrid and Steaua in 1989, and those feats I did see first hand. Mind you, since we are talking about history, what I read from those sources is, unlike current football events, usually accurate, since time and perspective have given it more objectivity.

But why would the history of football not be a subject worth studying? Like "common" history, I believe that it does repeat itself, and that by learning it you often avoid repeating it. Or indeed you can use it to better understand today's phenomenons. For instance I am always suspicious when some manager is hailed for his "revolutionary" vision of the game. As I argued in another thread, Michels' "Total football" was after all a perfected version of Hungary's offensive style in the 50's, which itself was inspired by Austria's Wunderteam in the 30's. Hence, Sacchi's zone football with Milan was only revolutionary in that he was the first to try it in Italy. Though to think of it the Great Torino in the late 40's....

Also, football is so unlike other sports that it goes beyond the mere study of facts and figures. From Mussolini using Italy's NT in the 30's to promote his fascist propaganda to, say, Roma's Sensi personnifying Southern Italy's traditional complex towards the North, football like no other sports is a reflection of the political, economic or cultural reality of the day. As you may know, Italy has no less than 3 daily sportspapers that are published on a national (and international) scale. While many articles in there should only be taken for what they are - i.e. football articles - some most definitely belong to a literary genre in itself. Famous (in Italy) mainstream journalists such as Vittorio Zucconi regularly write elaborate analysis in those papers. Gianni Mura for Repubblica is quite simply a football historian, and Brera before him was a football poet, as he has created so many words and expressions defining concepts or events that have now become of common use. His wittiness is surely missed btw, as I am sure he would come up with some brilliant descriptions for some of the trends in modern football.

So to sum up, this might be more true for football-focused countries such as Italy or England, but, in the end, the history of football counts already enough chapters to be considered, if not as a science, at least as a discipline.

Certainly. But to the common fan not at all. People shouldnt be looked down on because they have no interest of learning the history of their football team. Its not a reflection on that persons dedication to the club or intelligence. You need to choose to learn that and need to have a great desire and interest to do it. It still dosent mean an awful lot to being a modern day fan.

That said I have and do watch old footage, but its hard to find and often non-existant. Where do you get such footage? All I can find is some goal clips and few full games. Certainly not enough to have an understanding of a player. You also have to realise that only the best plays of these players are available so its easy to overrate them.

Im not doubting your knowledge, but so many people seem to be blasted around here for no knowing. They shouldnt. It just isnt a criteria.

I dont have an interest in learning about past players at all, only seeing some of the 'greats'.

 

[Eaglesnake_1]

++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++


Obviously I've only seen videotapes of them, but then again, I am nostalgic enough to watch videotapes of Milan trashing Madrid and Steaua in 1989, and those feats I did see first hand. Mind you, since we are talking about history, what I read from those sources is, unlike current football events, usually accurate, since time and perspective have given it more objectivity.

But why would the history of football not be a subject worth studying? Like "common" history, I believe that it does repeat itself, and that by learning it you often avoid repeating it. Or indeed you can use it to better understand today's phenomenons. For instance I am always suspicious when some manager is hailed for his "revolutionary" vision of the game. As I argued in another thread, Michels' "Total football" was after all a perfected version of Hungary's offensive style in the 50's, which itself was inspired by Austria's Wunderteam in the 30's. Hence, Sacchi's zone football with Milan was only revolutionary in that he was the first to try it in Italy. Though to think of it the Great Torino in the late 40's....

Also, football is so unlike other sports that it goes beyond the mere study of facts and figures. From Mussolini using Italy's NT in the 30's to promote his fascist propaganda to, say, Roma's Sensi personnifying Southern Italy's traditional complex towards the North, football like no other sports is a reflection of the political, economic or cultural reality of the day. As you may know, Italy has no less than 3 daily sportspapers that are published on a national (and international) scale. While many articles in there should only be taken for what they are - i.e. football articles - some most definitely belong to a literary genre in itself. Famous (in Italy) mainstream journalists such as Vittorio Zucconi regularly write elaborate analysis in those papers. Gianni Mura for Repubblica is quite simply a football historian, and Brera before him was a football poet, as he has created so many words and expressions defining concepts or events that have now become of common use. His wittiness is surely missed btw, as I am sure he would come up with some brilliant descriptions for some of the trends in modern football.

So to sum up, this might be more true for football-focused countries such as Italy or England, but, in the end, the history of football counts already enough chapters to be considered, if not as a science, at least as a discipline.

:thumb:

 

[flieeeekke]

++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++
For the record, the answers are :

2) Station master
3) Bazzoli
5) Monsieur Michel Platini.

ok, whats a station master? what do they do?

 

[flieeeekke]

kaiser, paul, anyone..

can you recommend me some good books in english about juve/italian football/general football?

 

[Negative Creep]

this seems to be pretty widely regarded as one of the best.

I read biographies only pretty much, they are alot more interesting

 

[flieeeekke]

++ [ originally posted by Negative Creep ] ++
this seems to be pretty widely regarded as one of the best.

I read biographies only pretty much, they are alot more interesting

ordered this one yesterday