Premier League 2018/19 (31 Viewers)

[Seven]

Nah I agree with Tosh, he hasn’t been the same dominant personality and tactically switched on manager since Inter. Poop Guardiola fucked with him massively in Spain and he’s become more and more unhinged ever since. He’s finished at the top level.

As a manager Mourinho wages war on everyone. That takes a toll on a person. Deep down Mourinho is a good person. You can see it when he's interviewed about players or managers he worked with in the past. He's a kind man.

But he's so bitter right now.

That's why at this point he needs time to relax and regroup and enjoy life again.

I'm sure the 13m Euros he's getting will allow him to do some fun stuff.

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[PhRoZeN]

Terrible news, I wanted mourinho there till end of the season at least.

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[DAiDEViL]

Yes, he also won the Carabao cup twice - in 15 and in 17, the Spanish super cup in 12 and Community Shield in 16 and of course, the mighty Europa league...
Noone denies his accomplishments after the merda treble, the topic is their insignificance. He peaked as a coach too early and just like many other examples in history, he made the most common and devastating mistake one could ever make when reaches the very top - let his ego take over his mind and senses.

He truly believed that he was a massive star and a living legend, a special one, and that was the end of him. It is his own fault, I just cant feel sorry for the guy, because he did all of that by himself, and he just wont learn his lesson, he keeps doing the same mistakes, which makes him not only a failure with an enormous ego, but also an idiot for repeating it all over again...

Which is true.

 

[Enron]

I knew we should have let him have the point!

 

[tosh_rose]

Which is true.

Fine, he`s the Robinho and Balotelli of the managers, a massive star in their early years and a complete failure later...

 

[jukazem]

I am kinda relieved that Mourinho's gone. There was a time when I wanted him back at Inter so that I could see Juve beat him at Inter, but now I think he's too toxic, too hateful. I prefer him far away from football.

 

[Stephan]

Utd problems run deeper than Mourinho. Mourinho wanted a top CB last summer. Koulibaly, Alderweide and Bonucci were names mentioned. Club signed some nobody Lindelof. Then he wanted Perisic. Club signs Alexis and makes him highest paid player who has become lazy and injury prone.

This Utd team isnt set up to win titles. It reminds me of Real Madrid post Del Bosque when they signed big galactico names and won nothing. Its not just about SAF. The club doesnt seem to able to promote young talent anymore and there was disagreements between Mourinho and the board in terms of transfers. They are obsessed to make big name transfer rather than build team. It started with Di maria. One of Ed Woodwards first signings. Pogba fits that bill as well. Then you add Alexis and Lukaku who have big rep in epl. Lot of egos. No leaders. No real men.

Zidane would be stupid to go there. Its a huge mess.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Context is everything. As a standalone comment, I agree with you. Football is global, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Context

It's annoying when 'fans' from (e.g. USA) pick a team to support and act up. There's no decent sides within a 1,000 miles so they look overseas. Let's say they choose Real Madrid or Bayern Munich. Just for argument's sake, because they're both odious clubs. So it'll help make this story more relateable. Bear with me here.

It's not about being decent really, what could the issue be with supporting both a local MLS club and a Serie A club? Supporting one does not detract from the other. I mean, 26 years ago I wouldn't even have a "local club" to support, what should I do then, just not watch?

And what if I were to move to Seattle? Should I start supporting the Seattle Sounders because they're "down the road?"

Then said American Real Madrid fan bigs it up on the internet, at work, wherever. Shitting on everyone else's team. Being an arrogant tool. Feeling smug in his reflected glory, which he had zero part in creating. And with months, and not years, of emotional investment. All the highs, and minimal lows.

It's annoying even when local fans do this because lets be real, have you really had any part in creating any glory for your club just because your house is closer? You're not exactly on the pitch passing the ball around either.

When you're from somewhere where your from down the road team is Elite level in global terms, but not necessarily of THE Elite. A local side who you go and watch live, and pay good money to do so, with little option to change your allegiances, because ... well because you just can't. Well, it's annoying when the non-Spanish speaking Madrid keyboard fans of this world act up.

It annoys me to see Italian Juventus fans do this as well, it's annoying regardless of where the person is from or what language they're speaking. Arrogance is just annoying, no way around it.

They guy in your twitter screen grab probably wasn't one of those types. And the over-reaction not really necessary from the respondent (although I can't see the full conversation, so maybe it was). But it's not just English fans. Spanish, French and Italians can all be like this sometimes, it's just their tweets/posts etc don't get as much coverage because they're not in the global language, i.e. not in English.

To end my little story - this is why I engage here. Because most (*cough* Badass *cough*) of you global fans of Juve are not like the global fans of Madrid, Barca and EPL teams. And perhaps this is why the tweet seems as if it came from the stone age.

Take in the context. The West Ham fan was possibly from East London. Probably over-reacted, but may have had years of this crap from 'Liverpudlians' or 'Mancs'.

TLDR: two different types of fans, they'll never see eye to eye. It has nothing to do with nationality. The same response would probably had been given if the guy from Azerbaijan was from Cornwall.

To be completely honest with you, I never hear this argument made out of anyone other than English supporters of premier league teams. To me, it's very bizarre considering that it's a league that is propped up to where it is by foreign investment and interest.

Now, if we were talking about national teams, then I could understand that to an extent. It's weird to me to see Indians or Arabs with Spain or Italy jerseys on if they have no connection to the nation, but whatever. Based on your post, not sure if it was just a hypothetical example, but it sounds like you're speaking about hispanic American Madrid fans, probably from seeing some social media comments. Yes, they're probably some of the most annoying people on the face of the Earth. Next time there's a USA vs Mexico match, just go read comments under Fox Soccer or ESPN FC posts about it. Insufferable.

Just to make this clear so I am not misunderstood, I have no issue with you whatsoever, I just really don't get this sentiment.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Fine, he`s the Robinho and Balotelli of the managers, a massive star in their early years and a complete failure later...

Dislike him all you want, but he's one of the most successfull managers around.

Won the El/Uefa Cup with Porto and Manure, the CL with Porto and Inda, the Portuguese League, the Spanish League, the English League and the Italian League, and pretty much all national Cup's along the way.

He has been winning from 2003 until 2017, a timespan of 15 years. Balotelli much?

 

[Cerval]

Mourinho and MU were a perfect match. They were fun to hate

 

[tosh_rose]

Dislike him all you want, but he's one of the most successfull managers around.

Won the El/Uefa Cup with Porto and Manure, the CL with Porto and Inda, the Portuguese League, the Spanish League, the English League and the Italian League, and pretty much all national Cup's along the way.

He has been winning from 2003 until 2017, a timespan of 15 years. Balotelli much?

It doesnt matter if I like him or not, my or anyone else`s sympathy for Mourinho is irrelevant. Facts are the way you pointed out - 2 UEFAs, 2 CLs, titles and cups in any of the 4 countries you mentioned. All that is undeniable. That timespan of 15 years can easily be divided in two halves, with 2010 being the end of the first and the beginning of the second, and it is pretty obvious which half has been more prestigious and successful. Everything remarkable Jose did, it was between 2003 - 2010, that was one of my points.

Again, facts are that he managed to win titles and cups in his second half, yes! Yet, it has to be said and underlined that he was at the helm of three clubs - Real Madrid, Chelsea and Man United - two of them top every single chart ever made about popularity, riches, fans (domestically, globally), sponsorships, TV money, turnovers, another money related stuffs and God knows what else... What he won in these three clubs doesnt look that exciting, compared to his previous achievements, it is rather disappointing and it is no wonder that he had been fired by all of those three clubs!

Can you agree that given the fact that his most successful period is between 2003-2010 where he managed inferior teams like Porto and Inter, his spell between 2010 - 2018, where he had all the money in the world in Real and ManUtd, is more or less a letdown? Not good enough, a fail? Isnt that some sort of proof that he`s declined?

His last 8 years, in his last 3 teams he managed, he already had star players in his teams, had excellent players, very good ones, he spent more than a billion dollars overall to buy the players he wanted to add to those who were already there when he took over, and what he did was win a single Europa League, one title in England, one in Spain and a few Mickey Mouse cups. That is not good enough for the money invested by those clubs, and his constant moaning, his excuses, his need to constantly remind everyone who dares to critisize him that once upon a time he won this and that are clear signs that he lost it. He cracked, he is too stubborn and proud to admit it, but thats what the facts show. He emerged, he peaked, then he declined.

 

[The Quazis]

Utd problems run deeper than Mourinho. Mourinho wanted a top CB last summer. Koulibaly, Alderweide and Bonucci were names mentioned. Club signed some nobody Lindelof. Then he wanted Perisic. Club signs Alexis and makes him highest paid player who has become lazy and injury prone.

This Utd team isnt set up to win titles. It reminds me of Real Madrid post Del Bosque when they signed big galactico names and won nothing. Its not just about SAF. The club doesnt seem to able to promote young talent anymore and there was disagreements between Mourinho and the board in terms of transfers. They are obsessed to make big name transfer rather than build team. It started with Di maria. One of Ed Woodwards first signings. Pogba fits that bill as well. Then you add Alexis and Lukaku who have big rep in epl. Lot of egos. No leaders. No real men.

Zidane would be stupid to go there. Its a huge mess.

I agree. They spent a huge amount of cash but when you look at their roster, it seems like they need to start building from the beginning.

 

[DAiDEViL]

It doesnt matter if I like him or not, my or anyone else`s sympathy for Mourinho is irrelevant. Facts are the way you pointed out - 2 UEFAs, 2 CLs, titles and cups in any of the 4 countries you mentioned. All that is undeniable. That timespan of 15 years can easily be divided in two halves, with 2010 being the end of the first and the beginning of the second, and it is pretty obvious which half has been more prestigious and successful. Everything remarkable Jose did, it was between 2003 - 2010, that was one of my points.

Again, facts are that he managed to win titles and cups in his second half, yes! Yet, it has to be said and underlined that he was at the helm of three clubs - Real Madrid, Chelsea and Man United - two of them top every single chart ever made about popularity, riches, fans (domestically, globally), sponsorships, TV money, turnovers, another money related stuffs and God knows what else... What he won in these three clubs doesnt look that exciting, compared to his previous achievements, it is rather disappointing and it is no wonder that he had been fired by all of those three clubs!

Can you agree that given the fact that his most successful period is between 2003-2010 where he managed inferior teams like Porto and Inter, his spell between 2010 - 2018, where he had all the money in the world in Real and ManUtd, is more or less a letdown? Not good enough, a fail? Isnt that some sort of proof that he`s declined?

His last 8 years, in his last 3 teams he managed, he already had star players in his teams, had excellent players, very good ones, he spent more than a billion dollars overall to buy the players he wanted to add to those who were already there when he took over, and what he did was win a single Europa League, one title in England, one in Spain and a few Mickey Mouse cups. That is not good enough for the money invested by those clubs, and his constant moaning, his excuses, his need to constantly remind everyone who dares to critisize him that once upon a time he won this and that are clear signs that he lost it. He cracked, he is too stubborn and proud to admit it, but thats what the facts show. He emerged, he peaked, then he declined.

No one is denying that he declined, but you called him the Balotelli of managers, which was rather ridiculous to say about a Manager, that won his first League Title in 2003, and the last one in 2015, and therefore has been relevant for over a decade now.

 

[Stephan]

Its very interesting to see if he can bounce back. His Manutd job will be seen as a huge failure. Its the first time he has failed. Europa league means nothing for a club like Utd. Imagine if next manager of Juve only wins Europa League in 3 year. That competition simply isnt elite enough and the fact 3rd place teams in group can win it is lame. Mou rep in uk is somewhat destroyed now. Its already bad in other countries (he pretty much fell out with everyone at Real and in Italy). Utd should have signed Klopp or Guardiola when they were available. They decided with their egos cause at the time Mourinho had 3 epl titles to his name and Pep had none. Mou isnt suited to Utd simply because of the football he plays. For that reason i also dont think Simeone is. Simeone might win league but they wont play attractive football. Like i already said Klopp and Guardiola were ideal for Manutd.
Pocchetino hasnt won anything. Could end up like Moyes and i understand Zidane doesnt speak english. And tbh Zidane coach Madrid which was full of winners and leaders. Manutd dont have that.

 

[Cerval]

Manchester United needs Domenech

 

[Dostoevsky]

Predictable. I think they'll get Zidane to coach them.

 

[Cerval]

Predictable. I think they'll get Zidane to coach them.

United are going to have a caretaker until the end of the season so that leaves us time.

 

[tosh_rose]

No one is denying that he declined, but you called him the Balotelli of managers, which was rather ridiculous to say about a Manager, that won his first League Title in 2003, and the last one in 2015, and therefore has been relevant for over a decade now.

It was an obvious joke (or so I hoped), and those two were the first that came to mind to fit the description - massive star in early days and complete failure later on. Anyway, that Balotelli part was not my point in this discussion, the question is not "Has Mourinho failed/declined and why?" but "When Mourinho started to decline and why?".

A few words about Pogba, I wouldnt say that the chances of him leaving United and rejoining us are gone or even reduced, not at all. Yes, the new manager, whoever he is (Carrick, Solskjaer and Loran Blanc are the names that I see in news today), the new manager will definitely play Pogba as a sure starter, the new manager can even find the right spot on the field for Pogba, the new manager can give him the freedom he needs and wants to do whatever he feels like, the new manager may even make Pogba the happiest man on Earth and not in a gay way BUT the new manager wont bring with him 20+ points into United`s tally and with the campaign close to the end of the winter semi-season it is close to impossible for United to finish in top 4, every one of Liverpool, Man City, Tottenham and Chelsea are better than this United and if you include Arsenal in the party then it gets even harder for the new man in charge. Every team that is currently ahead of Man Utd deserves to be there and it would be very hard to leapfrog one, let alone two of them for the devils. Them winning the Champions League is also an illusion, they may eliminate PSG if they scratch a fluke win like the one vs us in Turin, but thats it.

The main point regarding Pogba is that he is facing a second season with Manchester United in Europa League since he returned from his vacation and he is no closer to winning the Premiership either. If not in January, in July he may say enough is enough and go somewhere to win back to back titles and play 1/2 finals in CL, he is, in fact, a world champion, I am sure he thinks the Europa League is below his level, and quite frankly it is, he won it once, it`s enough for a player worth 100+ mil euros. We have our chances, if Pogba ends up on the market we will be interested, whether or not that happens it remains to be seen.

 

[Wittl]

Yes, he also won the Carabao cup twice - in 15 and in 17, the Spanish super cup in 12 and Community Shield in 16 and of course, the mighty Europa league...
Noone denies his accomplishments after the merda treble, the topic is their insignificance. He peaked as a coach too early and just like many other examples in history, he made the most common and devastating mistake one could ever make when reaches the very top - let his ego take over his mind and senses.

He truly believed that he was a massive star and a living legend, a special one, and that was the end of him. It is his own fault, I just cant feel sorry for the guy, because he did all of that by himself, and he just wont learn his lesson, he keeps doing the same mistakes, which makes him not only a failure with an enormous ego, but also an idiot for repeating it all over again...

It doesnt matter if I like him or not, my or anyone else`s sympathy for Mourinho is irrelevant. Facts are the way you pointed out - 2 UEFAs, 2 CLs, titles and cups in any of the 4 countries you mentioned. All that is undeniable. That timespan of 15 years can easily be divided in two halves, with 2010 being the end of the first and the beginning of the second, and it is pretty obvious which half has been more prestigious and successful. Everything remarkable Jose did, it was between 2003 - 2010, that was one of my points.

Again, facts are that he managed to win titles and cups in his second half, yes! Yet, it has to be said and underlined that he was at the helm of three clubs - Real Madrid, Chelsea and Man United - two of them top every single chart ever made about popularity, riches, fans (domestically, globally), sponsorships, TV money, turnovers, another money related stuffs and God knows what else... What he won in these three clubs doesnt look that exciting, compared to his previous achievements, it is rather disappointing and it is no wonder that he had been fired by all of those three clubs!

Can you agree that given the fact that his most successful period is between 2003-2010 where he managed inferior teams like Porto and Inter, his spell between 2010 - 2018, where he had all the money in the world in Real and ManUtd, is more or less a letdown? Not good enough, a fail? Isnt that some sort of proof that he`s declined?

His last 8 years, in his last 3 teams he managed, he already had star players in his teams, had excellent players, very good ones, he spent more than a billion dollars overall to buy the players he wanted to add to those who were already there when he took over, and what he did was win a single Europa League, one title in England, one in Spain and a few Mickey Mouse cups. That is not good enough for the money invested by those clubs, and his constant moaning, his excuses, his need to constantly remind everyone who dares to critisize him that once upon a time he won this and that are clear signs that he lost it. He cracked, he is too stubborn and proud to admit it, but thats what the facts show. He emerged, he peaked, then he declined.

It was an obvious joke (or so I hoped), and those two were the first that came to mind to fit the description - massive star in early days and complete failure later on. Anyway, that Balotelli part was not my point in this discussion, the question is not "Has Mourinho failed/declined and why?" but "When Mourinho started to decline and why?".

A few words about Pogba, I wouldnt say that the chances of him leaving United and rejoining us are gone or even reduced, not at all. Yes, the new manager, whoever he is (Carrick, Solskjaer and Loran Blanc are the names that I see in news today), the new manager will definitely play Pogba as a sure starter, the new manager can even find the right spot on the field for Pogba, the new manager can give him the freedom he needs and wants to do whatever he feels like, the new manager may even make Pogba the happiest man on Earth and not in a gay way BUT the new manager wont bring with him 20+ points into United`s tally and with the campaign close to the end of the winter semi-season it is close to impossible for United to finish in top 4, every one of Liverpool, Man City, Tottenham and Chelsea are better than this United and if you include Arsenal in the party then it gets even harder for the new man in charge. Every team that is currently ahead of Man Utd deserves to be there and it would be very hard to leapfrog one, let alone two of them for the devils. Them winning the Champions League is also an illusion, they may eliminate PSG if they scratch a fluke win like the one vs us in Turin, but thats it.

The main point regarding Pogba is that he is facing a second season with Manchester United in Europa League since he returned from his vacation and he is no closer to winning the Premiership either. If not in January, in July he may say enough is enough and go somewhere to win back to back titles and play 1/2 finals in CL, he is, in fact, a world champion, I am sure he thinks the Europa League is below his level, and quite frankly it is, he won it once, it`s enough for a player worth 100+ mil euros. We have our chances, if Pogba ends up on the market we will be interested, whether or not that happens it remains to be seen.

Wtf, I haven‘t seen you post that much about Juve stuff than you do about Mourinho on a single day.

 

[Nedved96]

Nah I agree with Tosh, he hasn’t been the same dominant personality and tactically switched on manager since Inter. Poop Guardiola fucked with him massively in Spain and he’s become more and more unhinged ever since. He’s finished at the top level.

Mou hasn’t been the same since this game.


He lost his aura of invincibility that day.