Premier League 2017/18 (12 Viewers)

[Hist]

Can't believe he escaped us, we usually are good at signing our rivals' best players lol.

people here were saying Caudrado is better and thought the only reason I praised Salah is because I am Egyptian.

They didnt know that I am a self-hating Egyptian who believes Egyptians wont ever make it and that I truly saw something special in Salah.

Not that what this forum thinks matters to beppe at all ofc

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[pavluska]

people here were saying Caudrado is better and thought the only reason I praised Salah is because I am Egyptian.

They didnt know that I am a self-hating Egyptian who believes Egyptians wont ever make it and that I truly saw something special in Salah.

Not that what this forum thinks matters to beppe at all ofc

How are you even comparing the two?

Cuadra is a SM type winger who has played WB for us. He's a midfielder.

And Salah is a WF, a forward. An attacker.

 

[Vialli_92]

How are you even comparing the two?

Cuadra is a SM type winger who has played WB for us. He's a midfielder.

And Salah is a WF, a forward. An attacker.

What did I just read

 

[Hist]

Salah has stepped up this season but he still has the most misses in the league (I recall reading), he's still not a finished article

Who is more of a finished article?

He did miss 3 more chances than Harry Kane (assuming thats who you define as the "finished article") but he did also score 4 more goals and 7 more assists in FEWER minutes than Kane... and he is a winger. So yeah.. thats a meaningless stat.

In case Aguero is your benchmark and you are part of the Kane is an over rated Englishman camp, there is a 7 goal and 3 assist gap between the two and the difference in missed chances is 6. Again easy trade to make.

Then there is Morata who is a joke in comparison and Lukaku.

I cant find a similar stat for La Liga and Serie A but I wouldnt be surprised if the top strikers are also the ones with the most missed chances. They simply get into better positions more often and have more shots on goal thereby scoring more goals, and having more misses.


Who is more of a finished article right now? and on what grounds do you base that assessment?

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How are you even comparing the two?

Cuadra is a SM type winger who has played WB for us. He's a midfielder.

And Salah is a WF, a forward. An attacker.

Cauds played for us as Winger in the 4-2-3-1 and in a 4-4-2 plenty of times. Offensively he is just of a lower tier thats why he is most useful as a WB.

We were comparing him and Cauds the last couple of seasons extensively it wasnt just me making the comparison. I thought its fairly obvious that Salah is much better going forward but that wasn't the opinion here.

One is a world class player and the other is above average at best. Bench material for a top team.

 

[pavluska]

Cauds played for us as Winger in the 4-2-3-1 and in a 4-4-2 plenty of times. Offensively he is just of a lower tier thats why he is most useful as a WB.

We were comparing him and Cauds the last couple of seasons extensively it wasnt just me making the comparison. I thought its fairly obvious that Salah is much better going forward but that wasn't the opinion here.

One is a world class player and the other is above average at best. Bench material for a top team.

When we loaned him, we had no set formation. Needed him as both WB and winger and played him as both.

And there was no way we were going to play 3 strikers up top with Allegri. Cuadrado tracks back and defends even as winger. He's an old school SM type winger. Doesn't play WB because of shortcomings lol.

The comparison and saying we should've signed that player not the other doesn't make much sense to me given they're diff, what we needed, and what the coach wanted. This is taking hindsight is 20/20 to another level where the player in question doesn't even fit the roles needed and is incomparable to the characteristics of the other player. This is how teams like United make their transfers.

If you want to argue we should've bought Salah to have another SS/WF in the squad, OK. But doesn't make much sense to bring up Cuadrado.

 

[Maddy]

PogBenchAgain

 

[JuveJay]

Arrived expecting a Hist-Salah love fest, was not disappointed.

 

[Dantes]

Who is more of a finished article?

etc.

Agree. Salah is the 'finished article'.

It looks very much like he'll win the Golden Boot this year. Previous winners going back to 2000 are:

Kane, Agüero, Suárez, van Persie, Berbatov, Tevez, Drogba, Anelka, Ronaldo, Henry, van Nistelrooy, Hasselbaink.

That's not bad company. There's not many of those who wouldn't have been described as the 'finished article.' And if they were unfinished when they first won the Golden Boot, many went on to even bigger and better things. I'll let you have Anelka as the exception to the rule.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Agree. Salah is the 'finished article'.

It looks very much like he'll win the Golden Boot this year. Previous winners going back to 2000 are:

Kane, Agüero, Suárez, van Persie, Berbatov, Tevez, Drogba, Anelka, Ronaldo, Henry, van Nistelrooy, Hasselbaink.

That's not bad company. There's not many of those who wouldn't have been described as the 'finished article.' And if they were unfinished when they first won the Golden Boot, many went on to even bigger and better things. I'll let you have Anelka as the exception to the rule.

Anelka was indeed a finished article when we signed him

 

[Hist]

When we loaned him, we had no set formation. Needed him as both WB and winger and played him as both.

And there was no way we were going to play 3 strikers up top with Allegri. Cuadrado tracks back and defends even as winger. He's an old school SM type winger. Doesn't play WB because of shortcomings lol.

The comparison and saying we should've signed that player not the other doesn't make much sense to me given they're diff, what we needed, and what the coach wanted. This is taking hindsight is 20/20 to another level where the player in question doesn't even fit the roles needed and is incomparable to the characteristics of the other player. This is how teams like United make their transfers.

If you want to argue we should've bought Salah to have another SS/WF in the squad, OK. But doesn't make much sense to bring up Cuadrado.

Again you are making valid points but the context of that discussion back then was different from what you describe. It was specifically about which player is better if Caudrado is played in a winger position. There was no debate regarding Cuads being better defensively in a WB role.

We compared stats from Cuads in fiorentina and the games he played an attacker role with Juve vs Salah. Salah's offensive stats were better back then and obviously much better now.

So just to be clear the discussion back then was about who is better for us as an offensive winger not as a wingback. I was saying Salah is better given his stats back then and his young age and the upward trend of his numbers. The other side was saying I am just fanboying and that Cuadrado is a much better winger. You werent part of this discussion.

Now it seems like a weird discussion to have because their roles are now very different where as back then Cuadrado was being tried in various positions with different responsibilities.

 

[Ventus]

people here were saying Caudrado is better and thought the only reason I praised Salah is because I am Egyptian.

They didnt know that I am a self-hating Egyptian who believes Egyptians wont ever make it and that I truly saw something special in Salah.

Not that what this forum thinks matters to beppe at all ofc

I actually thought you were from Canada this whole time lol

I do wonder whether he would have fulfilled his potential here at Juve though.

 

[Vialli_92]

I actually thought you were from Canada this whole time lol

I do wonder whether he would have fulfilled his potential here at Juve though.

No chance, we don't get the best out of attacking players it's not Max's style or what he's good at

 

[Cerval]

Who is more of a finished article?

He did miss 3 more chances than Harry Kane (assuming thats who you define as the "finished article") but he did also score 4 more goals and 7 more assists in FEWER minutes than Kane... and he is a winger. So yeah.. thats a meaningless stat.

In case Aguero is your benchmark and you are part of the Kane is an over rated Englishman camp, there is a 7 goal and 3 assist gap between the two and the difference in missed chances is 6. Again easy trade to make.

Then there is Morata who is a joke in comparison and Lukaku.

I cant find a similar stat for La Liga and Serie A but I wouldnt be surprised if the top strikers are also the ones with the most missed chances. They simply get into better positions more often and have more shots on goal thereby scoring more goals, and having more misses.


Who is more of a finished article right now? and on what grounds do you base that assessment?

I'll give you one example. Immobile is a good Serie A striker, scores plenty of goals, and misses plenty too. I'm not saying Salah is at the same level, he's a great player. But a finished article would be someone that is clinical and puts away most of the chances given to him. I'd expect Lewandowksi, Messi, Icardi, perhaps Dybala to have better conversion rate.

Looking at the table in your post, it does seem pretty homogeneous in the PL and most likely it'd be the same in Serie A so that might be rarer in today's football.

 

[Hist]

I actually thought you were from Canada this whole time lol

I do wonder whether he would have fulfilled his potential here at Juve though.

Nop. Immigrated 4 years ago

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I'll give you one example. Immobile is a good Serie A striker, scores plenty of goals, and misses plenty too. I'm not saying Salah is at the same level, he's a great player. But a finished article would be someone that is clinical and puts away most of the chances given to him. I'd expect Lewandowksi, Messi, Icardi, perhaps Dybala to have better conversion rate.

Looking at the table in your post, it does seem pretty homogenenous in the PL and most likely it'd be the same in Serie A so that might be rarer in today's football.

No way in hell. But even if I grant you that these two are better players (which I dont believe for a nanosecond), thats a very short list of players. Or did you mean just conversion % but not all around better players (because you didnt include Neymar or Bale for ex.)?

Because if its just conversion % then most likely he will come out on top of many of those because of how often he scores.

 

[Cerval]

Nop. Immigrated 4 years ago

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No way in hell. But even if I grant you that these two are better players (which I dont believe for a nanosecond), thats a very short list of players. Or did you mean just conversion % but not all around better players (because you didnt include Neymar or Bale for ex.)?

Because if its just conversion % then most likely he will come out on top of many of those because of how often he scores.

Yeah I mean conversion %. I rate Salah higher than Icardi, but if he'd be as clinical he'd be maximizing his potential.

Having said that I do think Dybala has more talent and potential, and that if he was more consistent he'd be rated higher. However right now, Salah is doing much more than him and that's what's counts.

 

[lgorTudor]

Salah is just this decade's Arshavin

 

[Hist]

Salah is just this decade's Arshavin

I used to really like Arshavin. Too bad he played for a shitclub and only played at a high level at the very end of his career.

Salah is miles ahead though.

 

[Ventus]

Yeah I mean conversion %. I rate Salah higher than Icardi, but if he'd be as clinical he'd be maximizing his potential.

Having said that I do think Dybala has more talent and potential, and that if he was more consistent he'd be rated higher. However right now, Salah is doing much more than him and that's what's counts.

Juventus and Liverpool also resemble two different philosophies of football. If he played for Juve, he would have scored around 20.

 

[zizinho]

Since 2012-13 net spend on the transfer market:

1) Manchester City: 725m (1.01b purchases - 284m sales)
2) Manchester United: 632m (854m purchases - 222m sales)
3) PSG: 618m (828m purchases - 210m sales)
4) Barcelona: 384m (799m purchases - 415m sales)
5) Bayern Munich: 253m (461m purchases - 208m sales)
.......
15) Juventus: 159m (661m purchases - 502m sales)
.......
42) Real Madrid: 50m (491m purchases - 441m sales)
.....................
244) Sevilla FC: -117m (267m purchases - 384m sales)

Mourinho is a pathetic joke. His team is literally outspending everyone but Mancity and PSG by a country mile. And somehow lost to a shitty Sevilla selling most of their best players each year, and busy allowing the likes of Eibar to score 5 against them this year.

Every wall is a door mate

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Again you are making valid points but the context of that discussion back then was different from what you describe. It was specifically about which player is better if Caudrado is played in a winger position. There was no debate regarding Cuads being better defensively in a WB role.

We compared stats from Cuads in fiorentina and the games he played an attacker role with Juve vs Salah. Salah's offensive stats were better back then and obviously much better now.

So just to be clear the discussion back then was about who is better for us as an offensive winger not as a wingback. I was saying Salah is better given his stats back then and his young age and the upward trend of his numbers. The other side was saying I am just fanboying and that Cuadrado is a much better winger. You werent part of this discussion.

Now it seems like a weird discussion to have because their roles are now very different where as back then Cuadrado was being tried in various positions with different responsibilities.

No

 

[pitbull]

@Hist just dig up posts of users underrating Salah, laugh at them and leave Cuadrado alone, thats how its properly done