Paulo Dybala (584 Viewers)

[baggio]

Ummm. We sold Inzaghi because we had Trez and had no need for Inzaghi anymore. We were moving on from the player. We signed a young player in Salas with the funds, although that signing turned into a disaster as he was injured the entire time he was here. You're also making up outright lies. Trez outscored Inzaghi in 00-01, 14 goals to 11. Hence the reason we moved forward with Trez, also because we our success in Europe had disappeared after Inzaghi's first season at the club.

Vieri was not our top scorer in 96-97 before he was sold. Him, DP, and Padovano all had 8 goals in Serie A. DP had 15 in all comps to his 14. Nor was he some giant at Juve. He was here for 1 year, and clearly the club didn't think of him as some essential player. We replaced him with Inzaghi.

We sold Baggio to move forward with Del Piero. Plain and simple. We had no need for him anymore. Oh, and guess what. We won the CL the year after he left, and played in 3 straight CL finals.

Thanks for proving my point.

There is still only 1 example of Juve selling a player because the price was right, and it was for a 29 year old Zidane, while the club was stagnating and having poor results. That's it. And yes, him wanting to leave was important, but so were the poor results the club was getting with him as a leader. Obviously. He was coming off a terrible season.

And Beppe said he came to Vidal with the offer from Bayern, and Vidal said he'd like to take it. SO if we take Beppe's words at face value, Bayern gave an offer to the club for Vidal, and we presented it to the player, which pretty clearly shows we were very interested in selling him. It more so suggests that we were giving him the option to stay if he'd like.

Great, nonsense and lies. The wheels are really coming apart. Funny you mention Inzaghi being out scored by Trezeguet, but forget to account for his European tally that same season. (The Hambhrg hat trick season.) While you account for Vieri's joint top scoring tally, which iirc was tied with Boksic that year across competitions. Also funny you mention our CL success but forget to mention how Baggio was sold to Meelan with whom he won the Scudetto that same year. And that point about moving on to Del Piero had just as much to do with his falling out with the powers that be at the club, Lippi, Moggi etc.

I don't see how or why we will keep Pogba or Dybala against their will if it came to that, after Beppe himself has categorically repeated himself that we don't keep players against their will. It's deluded to think otherwise when he's been so blatant about it. It's deluded to think if a huge offer came in, Juve won't consider it if they know a player wants out. Tmay not be the case with Dybala or Pogba this season, but I don't get how the possibility is excluded altogether over a period of time.

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they both seem to have no intention of leaving at all so we can close that topic for another 4-5 years atleast (i dont even know why its being brought up all the time)

Football is really dynamic unfortunately. I think the time of legends like AdP, Gigi, Totti etc are over, where they value loyalty and the meaning of the badge. Today things are a lot more commercial. No matter how much anybody swears allegiance, it takes one off season, and you'll see how agents manipulate players to make a quick buck and the players make lifestyle choices to be more visible in more commercially visible teams across the world. Look at Vidal, if it was his decision, he more than Pogba or Dybala epitomised Juve, and then the tattoos , but he made a choice and it didn't take much for him to make that choice. This isn't about this season per se, it is a discussion moving forward. I don't see why the club won't sell if the money is right and the player wants out.

 

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[zizinho]

vidal only tattoed the dates on which he won scudetti, as some personal achievements. Dont look at it as some sort of love for Juve. And excuse me but im more willing to take Pogbas and Dybalas words as something they feel like over some BS about business, commercial etc. There is simply no reason to believe either of them will leave, unless youre a peasant that likes feeling pathetic all the time

 

[Post Ironic]

Great, nonsense and lies. The wheels are really coming apart. Funny you mention Inzaghi being out scored by Trezeguet, but forget to account for his European tally that same season. (The Hambhrg hat trick season.) While you account for Vieri's joint top scoring tally, which iirc was tied with Boksic that year across competitions. Also funny you mention our CL success but forget to mention how Baggio was sold to Meelan with whom he won the Scudetto that same year. And that point about moving on to Del Piero had just as much to do with his falling out with the powers that be at the club, Lippi, Moggi etc.

I don't see how or why we will keep Pogba or Dybala against their will if it came to that, after Beppe himself has categorically repeated himself that we don't keep players against their will. It's deluded to think otherwise when he's been so blatant about it. It's deluded to think if a huge offer came in, Juve won't consider it if they know a player wants out. Tmay not be the case with Dybala or Pogba this season, but I don't get how the possibility is excluded altogether over a period of time.

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Football is really dynamic unfortunately. I think the time of legends like AdP, Gigi, Totti etc are over, where they value loyalty and the meaning of the badge. Today things are a lot more commercial. No matter how much anybody swears allegiance, it takes one off season, and you'll see how agents manipulate players to make a quick buck and the players make lifestyle choices to be more visible in more commercially visible teams across the world. Look at Vidal, if it was his decision, he more than Pogba or Dybala epitomised Juve, and then the tattoos , but he made a choice and it didn't take much for him to make that choice. This isn't about this season per se, it is a discussion moving forward. I don't see why the club won't sell if the money is right and the player wants out.

It wasn't tied with Boksic. Del Piero outscored Vieri across competitions. 15 goals to 14 goals. Boksic? He had like 3 goals in Serie A that year.

We have never just sold players because they asked to leave or because of big offers.

Every single example of a sale of a big player, has clear implications of the club moving on from players.

Inzaghi... we had bought Trez the year before and decided to move forward with him.

Vieri... we had for one year, just like every single club he played for before Inter. We didn't see him as integral to the team and replaced him with Inzaghi.

Baggio... Our management disliked him, we had an upcoming superstar no 10 in Del Piero, and the club decided to go in that direction which was clearly the right decision.

Zidane was coming off his worst couple seasons at Juventus. Including a really disappointing last season. He wanted to move, and the club had no desire to keep him as we needed to rebuild as well. He was also 29.

Vidal was coming off his worst season, with huge disciplinary problems, and alcohol problems.

None of these were just an under-25 player demanding to be sold, or the club accepting big offers for our under-25 superstars.

We've never done that. Ever.

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vidal only tattoed the dates on which he won scudetti, as some personal achievements. Dont look at it as some sort of love for Juve. And excuse me but im more willing to take Pogbas and Dybalas words as something they feel like over some BS about business, commercial etc. There is simply no reason to believe either of them will leave, unless youre a peasant that likes feeling pathetic all the time

 

[baggio]

It wasn't tied with Boksic. Del Piero outscored Vieri across competitions. 15 goals to 14 goals. Boksic? He had like 3 goals in Serie A that year.

We have never just sold players because they asked to leave or because of big offers.

Every single example of a sale of a big player, has clear implications of the club moving on from players.

Inzaghi... we had bought Trez the year before and decided to move forward with him.

Vieri... we had for one year, just like every single club he played for before Inter. We didn't see him as integral to the team and replaced him with Inzaghi.

Baggio... Our management disliked him, we had an upcoming superstar no 10 in Del Piero, and the club decided to go in that direction which was clearly the right decision.

Zidane was coming off his worst couple seasons at Juventus. Including a really disappointing last season. He wanted to move, and the club had no desire to keep him as we needed to rebuild as well. He was also 29.

Vidal was coming off his worst season, with huge disciplinary problems, and alcohol problems.

None of these were just an under-25 player demanding to be sold, or the club accepting big offers for our under-25 superstars.

We've never done that. Ever.

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Was meaning to point out Vieri's joint record between Serie a with AdP and Europe, iirc, Alen was top scorer in Europe that year? And then Vieri across both competitions, alongside AdP like you mentioned.

Not getting this though. Didn't you yourself cite Vidals example as a player who wanted to leave and it was the right offer for us? Isn't that a contradiction to what you're saying above, we have never sold unless they asked to leave or because of big offers? Zizou, and Vidal were about those situations.

Also to me, this isn't about age. It's about our attitude as a club. I'm saying it's the club's approach to take every case independently and treat it for the money\will equation. I don't see us as a club that will put up with bs if a player ever wants out.

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vidal only tattoed the dates on which he won scudetti, as some personal achievements. Dont look at it as some sort of love for Juve. And excuse me but im more willing to take Pogbas and Dybalas words as something they feel like over some BS about business, commercial etc. There is simply no reason to believe either of them will leave, unless youre a peasant that likes feeling pathetic all the time

He had the Scudetto badges tattooed mate. I want you to point out through all my posts in this discussion where I said I think or believe they will leave. Either you have not understood what I am saying or I'm not speaking Beppe. The only language you understand.

 

[Post Ironic]

Was referring to Vieri's joint record with Boksic in Europe, iirc, Alen was top scorer in Europe that year? And Vieri across competitions, alongside AdP.

Not getting this. Didn't you yourself cite Vidals example as a player who wanted to leave and it was the right offer for us? Isn't that a contradiction to what you're saying above, we have never sold unless they asked to leave or because of big offers? Zizou, and Vidal were about those situations.

Also to me, this isn't about age. It's about our attitude as a club. I'm saying it's the club's approach to take every case independently and treat it for the money\will equation. I don't see us as a club that will put up with bs if a player ever wants out.

Nah. I think it was a combination of things with both Vidal and Zidane. Vidal was receiving an offer for him, being sick of his off-field antics, and him wanting to leave.

Zidane was a combination of him and his wife wanting out, his poor form, and our terrible results. It was time to move on.

And it will be the same thing if we do sell a player like Pogba or Dybala. A combination of things. A player wanting out, an appropriate offer, and poor on-field form and results.

We're not going to be selling these players coming off successful seasons where they are playing at their best. In part because it will be much easier to convince them to stay in such situations.

 

[JuveE46]

I think it was vidals "will" to go to Bayern BUT our board WANTED him to go just as much..as everyone knows this is not a club to f around in, crash cars (did Ferrari actually suspend him from buying any more units anyone know?) It will show for sure next season but looks like we made a good call selling..Vidal seemed to forget where he was at..loved him also glad he's gone that finals performance was not excusable..

 

[baggio]

Nah. I think it was a combination of things with both Vidal and Zidane. Vidal was receiving an offer for him, being sick of his off-field antics, and him wanting to leave.

Zidane was a combination of him and his wife wanting out, his poor form, and our terrible results. It was time to move on.

And it will be the same thing if we do sell a player like Pogba or Dybala. A combination of things. A player wanting out, an appropriate offer, and poor on-field form and results.

We're not going to be selling these players coming off successful seasons where they are playing at their best. In part because it will be much easier to convince them to stay in such situations.

So then are we not saying the same thing? A player wanting out plus money on the table, only difference here, I'm not equating a potential sale to poor form or results. Apart from the Vidal deal, I think we have managed in general to sell on our terms over the last couple of decades.

 

[Post Ironic]

So then are we not saying the same thing? A player wanting out plus money on the table, only difference here, I'm not equating a potential sale to poor form or results. Apart from the Vidal deal, I think we have managed in general to sell on our terms over the last couple of decades.

I just don't think you disregard these things. They are generally the reason for players wanting to leave, as well as for the club to want to move on from certain players and rejuvenate with others...

We were offered an insane fee for Zidane for example, after the worst season of his career. In the end it worked out for both player and team, as Zidane refound his mojo at Madrid, and we set the tone for 4 scudetti in 5 years with our purchases after that sale.

As just an example.

 

[baggio]

I just don't think you disregard these things. They are generally the reason for players wanting to leave, as well as for the club to want to move on from certain players and rejuvenate with others...

We were offered an insane fee for Zidane for example, after the worst season of his career. In the end it worked out for both player and team, as Zidane refound his mojo at Madrid, and we set the tone for 4 scudetti in 5 years with our purchases after that sale.

As just an example.

Ok, but in the same vein, consider this scenario, Juve win the CL next season. Pogba leading light all the way, his value sky rockets, he's won eeyrthing with Juve, Barca come calling? Player won't consider? Raiola won't push? The club can reinvest that money to replace its ageing stars. It's a realistic situation even though I hope it never comes to fruition.

 

[Post Ironic]

I doubt it, to the point of thinking it impossible... The allure of leading Juventus to be the first club to ever win back-to-back CL titles would be too great. No way does a team's best player leave the same summer they win CL. It wouldn't happen and wouldn't be allowed by the club. At the very least they'd require him to stay one more season to attempt to win back to back.

I could easily see him leaving the summer following that (could also see him staying easily) if we don't defend the CL title, which is more than likely... but let's cross that bridge when it comes.

 

[zizinho]

Was meaning to point out Vieri's joint record between Serie a with AdP and Europe, iirc, Alen was top scorer in Europe that year? And then Vieri across both competitions, alongside AdP like you mentioned.

Not getting this though. Didn't you yourself cite Vidals example as a player who wanted to leave and it was the right offer for us? Isn't that a contradiction to what you're saying above, we have never sold unless they asked to leave or because of big offers? Zizou, and Vidal were about those situations.

Also to me, this isn't about age. It's about our attitude as a club. I'm saying it's the club's approach to take every case independently and treat it for the money\will equation. I don't see us as a club that will put up with bs if a player ever wants out.

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He had the Scudetto badges tattooed mate. I want you to point out through all my posts in this discussion where I said I think or believe they will leave. Either you have not understood what I am saying or I'm not speaking Beppe. The only language you understand.

Check his right arm, its 2011/12, 2012/13

And you said in your 1st post, every player is for sale if the price is right, while completely ignoring everything Marotta and the players said. There is simply no offer that can make them leave, as shown when we rejected Barcas offer for Pogba last summer and both Barcas and Reals offer this summer for Dybala. You simply want to be pathetic, thats all

 

[baggio]

Check his right arm, its 2011/12, 2012/13

And you said in your 1st post, every player is for sale if the price is right, while completely ignoring everything Marotta and the players said. There is simply no offer that can make them leave, as shown when we rejected Barcas offer for Pogba last summer and both Barcas and Reals offer this summer for Dybala. You simply want to be pathetic, thats all

Yes, and there is another one with the Italian scudetti badge For 14-15. What am I ignoring? You're taking this too personally bud. None of these guys are leaving, nor do I want them to leave, but I'm pretty sure if they do ever want out, as or when, the club will not be held ransom, be it Pogba or Dybala.

 

[zizinho]

Yes, and there is another one with the Italian scudetti badge For 14-15. What am I ignoring? You're taking this too personally bud. None of these guys are leaving, nor do I want them to leave, but I'm pretty sure if they do ever want out, as or when, the club will not be held ransom, be it Pogba or Dybala.

Its still a scudetto badge, not a Juve badge. He tattooes the scudetto he wins, probably does the same with Bayern titles

I know they aren't leaving and i know you don't want them to. I don't care who will be held ransom, all im saying is they aren't going nowhere for atleast 5-6 years (which you agree with it seems) so i dont know why you bring up this pointless topic again

 

[Vlad]

Baggio wtf? Have you been watching Juve back then?

Baggio was sold to make room for Ale. He wasn't considered indispensable anymore. And he was never quite the same player there, so the decision was spot on to sell him.

Vieri was sold over contract dispute. He didnt have good season and was asking for a raise. He even had some confrontation with Lippi over playing time. Definitely wasn't a top player while at Juve.

Inzaghi's sale was expected, since we had brought more talented forward a season before, who by the end of campaign took his place in the starting 11 and showed that he's better pairing for DP.

Apart from Zidane, and even he was considered past it (29 yo), there's no example of Juve selling its best players at peak of their abilities.

 

[baggio]

Its still a scudetto badge, not a Juve badge. He tattooes the scudetto he wins, probably does the same with Bayern titles

I know they aren't leaving and i know you don't want them to. I don't care who will be held ransom, all im saying is they aren't going nowhere for atleast 5-6 years (which you agree with it seems) so i dont know why you bring up this pointless topic again

I think the Dybala threads gotten a bit emotional. Back to being happy everyone, peace.

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Baggio wtf? Have you been watching Juve back then?

Baggio was sold to make room for Ale. He wasn't considered indispensable anymore. And he was never quite the same player there, so the decision was spot on to sell him.

Vieri was sold over contract dispute. He didnt have good season and was asking for a raise. He even had some confrontation with Lippi over playing time. Definitely wasn't a top player while at Juve.

Inzaghi's sale was expected, since we had brought more talented forward a season before, who by the end of campaign took his place in the starting 11.

Apart from Zidane, and even him was considered past it (29 yo), there's no example of Juve selling its best players at peak of their abilities.

Baggio was the one sold over a contract dispute actually. Moggi wanted him to take a pay cut and that led to. Falling out of sorts. Vieri did in fact have a good season, as you may have seen from our discussion over these pages, top scorer with Ale. He was a potential breakthrough star because of his performance that season, that's why AtM paid big money for him at the time. 10m or so iirc.

Trezeguet had made a fantastic claim to the starters spot over Inzaghi but it did not exclude the fact that Pippo was young enough to remain a reference point for the club because of three stellar seasons consecutively. And he was a star in his own right mind you.

And I disagree with anyone who thinks Zizou was past it at 29. The point remains that Juve while don't fall under the category of a 'selling club' but we aren't afraid to sell our stars because nobody is bigger than the club. And I think while as a fan I don't agree with that approach always, it's remarkable the club backs itself and is the better for it, most times.

 

[Vlad]

Baggio was the one sold over a contract dispute. Moggi wanted him to take a pay cut. Vieri did in fact have a good season, as you may have seen from our discussion over these pages, top scorer with Ale. He was a potential breakthrough star because of his performance that season, that's why AtM paid big money for him at the time. 10m or so iirc.

Vieri scored 8 goals in Serie A and you call it a good season. We sold the guy who didn't deliver and replaced him with the top Serie A scorer of the previous season. Inzaghi. In addition he (Vieri) was asking for a raise. That's what papers claimed at that time but we didn't deem him worth it.

Baggio was benched for Ale for most of the year and this is also the case of a player near his 30s, where it's wiser to sell before too late. Neither at Milan or Inter did he rediscover his previous form on a regular basis.

Trezeguet had made a fantastic claim to the starters spot over Inzaghi but it did not exclude the fact that Pippo was young enough to remain a reference point for the club because of three stellar seasons consecutively. And he was a star in his own right mind you.

Trez and Inzagi were both top forwards but they would never have been satisfied to share playing time. Trez was obviously more talented and had more facets to his game. Simple decision of upgrading the attack as proven in subsequent years when Trez outscored Inzaghi in almost every season.

And I disagree with anyone who thinks Zizou was past it at 29. The point remains that Juve while don't fall under the category of a 'selling club' but we aren't afraid to sell our stars because nobody is bigger than the club. And I think while as a fan I don't agree with that approach always, it's remarkable the club backs itself and is the better for it, most times.

Definitely looked past it in his final year here.

 

[zizinho]

Dont forget we sold Zidane for 71M at a time when the largest transfer was around 40M and that with him (and his wife) wanting to leave

 

[Vlad]

Dont forget we sold Zidane for 71M at a time when the largest transfer was around 40M and that with him (and his wife) wanting to leave

I'm not forgetting it, but the decision was being made based on his poor season or two here, imho. He didn't seem like the player he'd been between 96-99. And ofc 71m for a player that struggled to be more consistent in his final year, was hard to refuse.

 

[zizinho]

I'm not forgetting it, but the decision was being made based on his poor season or two here, imho. He didn't seem like the player he'd been between 96-99.

Yeah I get that, but I meant that even though he came of his worst season for us we managed to get a (by far) record fee for him, so even then we didn't just give him up easily

 

[Hust]

Dont forget we sold Zidane for 71M at a time when the largest transfer was around 40M and that with him (and his wife) wanting to leave

What would that sum be in today's market with inflation?