@Rollie
To be fair, it wasn't that cut and dry. Quaresma was a gamble to be sure but he was supposedly very very good and on the up-and-up. Inter gambled and lost. His "lazy" work ethic wasn't as obvious as people now see. It truly was only after he left Inter that his laziness, off the ball specifically, has become very obvious.
He isn't
already better than Quaresma... He's more desirable than Quaresma but I wouldn't say he's better. Quaresma playing in CL with Porto on a good Porto squad, scoring goals and looking like a bitch. Dybala having a hot/cold streak season at Palermo. No european football, not even scoring against the top team in Italy. The hype says he's already better. Zamp blowing smoke up peoples' assholes...
Well, to be fair, Morata getting minutes in attack on a massive Real side compared to Dybala starting for Palermo. Big difference. Morata also scored against European competition and was consistently showing huge initiative and confidence in the opportunities he was given. At Real Madrid. That speaks to his talent. And he costs us less than the starting rumored price for Dybala. Let's not even discuss the current prices rumored for Dybala.
Yeah, duds that cost us a a fortune when we're talking about a possible dud that could cost us a fortune. Not relevant.
Beppe and Co. are not equivalent to Secco and Co. but you think Secco wasn't confident in Martinez? Do you think he was just throwing away money like "this guy's going to be a bust but the troll wil be great"? They were pretty confident.
Regardless of how balanced we are, we are NOT in a position to risk 25-30m on a young player who has proven NOTHING. With our squad getting older in huge positions, I would argue that 25-30 should be spent on proven players. Proven talent, outside of Italy if necessary. Look what De Bruyne cost Wolfsburg. Those are the type of buys we should be making. Shaqiri is another. These are proven players who had fallen out of favor. Shit, Mandzukic went for less than 25m! The buys are there if people are willing to make them. I'd take Mandzukic over Dybala any day.
But we don't know Dybala has adequate ability for Juve because we've seen 2 seasons. One, he was shit and body talks about that season. The other season has been streaky in that he's been cold, hot, cold. I've said this quite often but I'd pass on a kid who's older than our top attacking talents, less impressive, overhyped and dropping off in terms of production. Pass.
They're also buzzwords thrown around to describe hundreds of players people desire. "Oh, I want attacker A look at his vision. Look how much better he makes his teammates. He's intelligent." A lot of people throw these terms around because they hear pundits and scouts throw them around. I'm saying the words get thrown around a lot.
I would love to sit down and breakdown video with you over Dybala. I'll bring Berardi video and show you everything that Dybala does, Berardi does to a similar if not greater extent. I'll also show you Dybala disappearing and not tracking back. I'll show you Dybala's overconfidence in using his left foot all the time, predictably so, to the point defenders go to his left before he does, he sees them go to his left and STILL goes to his left, losing possession. He does this 2-3 times EVERY match. EVERY match. That can be coached. And it has been coached, particularly last year at Palermo. And he still does it. That's concerning for me as it was a problem last year, is a problem this year and he still does it.
I'm an ideologue! Hahaha, wow...
Morata was given a starting time at MADRID. Madrid. Their confidence in his abilities speaks wonders about his talent level. He also repaid their confidence with goals. In Europe. Say that with me and then say "wow" because that's the difference between the two. And Morata will have cost us less. Dybala will go for more than Morata. Having proven less and done less.
Indeed. But I haven't entered into this discussion to convince anybody of anything. I don't want to convince you Dybala is shit. He isn't shit. He's massively overrated. And that much can be seen in the prices being named for him, his body of work, his glaring streaky nature and the fact that last season has just disappeared in the minds of people wanting us to sign him.
I am an ideologue! Hear me roar! Again, all in good fun but you can't prove anything to me because in the end we have one thing. Body of work. That is all. His body of work isn't impressive. It's very similar to many body's of work we've seen many times before. Many have failed to live up to the hype, some have not. It's a guessing game. It is not black and white, easy to see, obvious talent, etc. It is literally a guessing game, especially with somebody that young. Pretty much end of story.
Haha, nope. I like lots of young, hyped South Americans. I like Firmino. I loved Wellington when he went to Russia. Loved Wellington. He was a bust, much to my sadness. But he didn't cost them 30-50m. Firmino is at the point now where he will probably cost 30m. But look at his body of work! Look at what he has accomplished compared to Dybala. They will probably go for similar numbers. Think on that.
Gotta keep discussions fun with sass ))))))))
I'm comparing a young, hyped South American who made it. And a young Aguero would be hard to gauge in price because #hindsight. If everybody knew what Aguero would become and were to bid for him, he would go for over 100m. That's not the point. The point is, here's a young, hyped South American who made it. And look at his body of work before he lived up to his potential... then look at Dybala's... back to Aguero's... back to Dybala's... one last time to Aguero's... finally, back to Dybala's. That is what a young, hyped South American who makes it looks like and what he did to earn that hype. And it wasn't so cut and dry. He had to work hard to become what he is today. But he did more to earn that hype than Dybala did. I think that's fair for me to mention.
How is it a cop out? Look back and remember half the kids who were said to be intelligent, make their teammates better, superior passing, etc. Then look at them today. Were the people assigning these qualities to them wrong? Maybe. But it's not so black and white. So using these qualities people have assigned to these kids as some kind of "proof" is just laughable. "How can you not want this kid? Look at his passing, his finishing, his pace, he's got a great work ethic, he's intelligent" and then BOOM 95% of those kids flop, drop and roll into Serie B. Every year. So what worth did those qualities assigned to the kids really produce? Again, were they wrong? Can you not at least admit that people use these terms to describe EVERY young player with hype? Can you not admit that these phrases are thrown around A LOT to describe A LOT of young players. Many of who flop? So how are those words, those phrases that get assigned to many many youngsters' showing promise therefore EVIDENCE of their talent? They're not. They're empty. They mean nothing. That's my point. If the words you're using that I've heard many times before (hence, me linking the Iturbe thread not to compare the two skills but to compare the hype, the words and phrases being used and how meaningless those phrases truly are to the discussion) mean anything different now? Because you're saying them? Because you've seen those words in action through Dybala? Well, people saw those exact same words in action through Iturbe and through a hundred other youngsters and 99 of those hundred other youngsters flopped having the same hype. Iturbe included. That's my point around the buzzwords. It is very relevant to the discussion.
I can create an argument and I already did. It's like Cerci and Immobile at Torino last year. It's like any number of other players who had amazing years in a system where they are at the center and the entire offense goes through them. And Dybala, with the offense going through him every week, still is cold/hot/cold this year. He hasn't scored against our defense this year (something I predicted
). Then you look at Dybala last year. Clueless. Wasteful. Lack of confidence.
I do and I will. Hopefully not here next year for over 20m...
Woah, buzzword overload. An emerging leader, mature beyond his years, productive like nobody's business. Tell me more.
You did tell me more and for that I thank you. Responsible, supports his teammates. But does he hold the room together, man?
Agreed. Sanchez is a boss. And Dybala might end up costing us Sanchez type numbers. Body of work. Look at them.
Agreed.
Indeed. Much fun.
By the way, I'm switching this to the Dybala thread before we both get in trouble for the Cavani thread going somewhat off-topic.
I see your point, but to be fair, it wasn't that cut and dry.
Quaresma was a gamble to be sure but he
was supposedly very very good and on the up-
and-up. Inter gambled and lost. His "lazy"
work ethic wasn't as obvious as people now
see. It truly was only after he left Inter that his
laziness, off the ball specifically, has become
very obvious.
He isn't already better than Quaresma... He's
more desirable than Quaresma but I wouldn't
say he's better. Quaresma playing in CL with
Porto on a good Porto squad, scoring goals
and looking like a bitch. Dybala having a hot/
cold streak season at Palermo. No european
football, not even scoring against the top team
in Italy. The hype says he's already better.
Zamp blowing smoke up peoples' assholes...
Well, to be fair, Morata getting minutes in
attack on a massive Real side compared to
Dybala starting for Palermo. Big difference.
Morata also scored against European
competition and was consistently showing
huge initiative and confidence in the
opportunities he was given. At Real Madrid.
That speaks to his talent. And he costs us less
than the starting rumored price for Dybala.
Let's not even discuss the current prices
rumored for Dybala.
Yeah, duds that cost us a a fortune when
we're talking about a possible dud that could
cost us a fortune. Not relevant.
Beppe and Co. are not equivalent to Secco and
Co. but you think Secco wasn't confident in
Martinez? Do you think he was just throwing
away money like "this guy's going to be a bust
but the troll wil be great"? They were pretty
confident.
Regardless of how balanced we are, we are
NOT in a position to risk 25-30m on a young
player who has proven NOTHING. With our
squad getting older in huge positions, I would
argue that 25-30 should be spent on proven
players. Proven talent, outside of Italy if
necessary. Look what De Bruyne cost
Wolfsburg. Those are the type of buys we
should be making. Shaqiri is another. These
are proven players who had fallen out of favor.
Shit, Mandzukic went for less than 25m! The
buys are there if people are willing to make
them. I'd take Mandzukic over Dybala any day.
But we don't know Dybala has adequate ability
for Juve because we've seen 2 seasons. One,
he was shit and body talks about that season.
The other season has been streaky in that he's
been cold, hot, cold. I've said this quite often
but I'd pass on a kid who's older than our top
attacking talents, less impressive, overhyped
and dropping off in terms of production. Pass.
They're also buzzwords thrown around to
describe hundreds of players people desire.
"Oh, I want attacker A look at his vision. Look
how much better he makes his teammates.
He's intelligent." A lot of people throw these
terms around because they hear pundits and
scouts throw them around. I'm saying the
words get thrown around a lot.
I would love to sit down and breakdown video
with you over Dybala. I'll bring Berardi video
and show you everything that Dybala does,
Berardi does to a similar if not greater extent.
I'll also show you Dybala disappearing and not
tracking back. I'll show you Dybala's
overconfidence in using his left foot all the
time, predictably so, to the point defenders go
to his left before he does, he sees them go to
his left and STILL goes to his left, losing
possession. He does this 2-3 times EVERY
match. EVERY match. That can be coached.
And it has been coached, particularly last year
at Palermo. And he still does it. That's
concerning for me as it was a problem last
year, is a problem this year and he still does it.
I'm an ideologue! Hahaha, wow...
Morata was given a starting time at MADRID.
Madrid. Their confidence in his abilities speaks
wonders about his talent level. He also repaid
their confidence with goals. In Europe. Say that
with me and then say "wow" because that's
the difference between the two. And Morata
will have cost us less. Dybala will go for more
than Morata. Having proven less and done
less.
Indeed. But I haven't entered into this
discussion to convince anybody of anything. I
don't want to convince you Dybala is shit. He
isn't shit. He's massively overrated. And that
much can be seen in the prices being named
for him, his body of work, his glaring streaky
nature and the fact that last season has just
disappeared in the minds of people wanting us
to sign him.
I am an ideologue! Hear me roar! Again, all in
good fun but you can't prove anything to me
because in the end we have one thing. Body of
work. That is all. His body of work isn't
impressive. It's very similar to many body's of
work we've seen many times before. Many
have failed to live up to the hype, some have
not. It's a guessing game. It is not black and
white, easy to see, obvious talent, etc. It is
literally a guessing game, especially with
somebody that young. Pretty much end of
story.
Haha, nope. I like lots of young, hyped South
Americans. I like Firmino. I loved Wellington
when he went to Russia. Loved Wellington. He
was a bust, much to my sadness. But he
didn't cost them 30-50m. Firmino is at the
point now where he will probably cost 30m.
But look at his body of work! Look at what he
has accomplished compared to Dybala. They
will probably go for similar numbers. Think on
that.
Gotta keep discussions fun with sass ))))))))
I'm comparing a young, hyped South American
who made it. And a young Aguero would be
hard to gauge in price because #hindsight. If
everybody knew what Aguero would become
and were to bid for him, he would go for over
100m. That's not the point. The point is,
here's a young, hyped South American who
made it. And look at his body of work before
he lived up to his potential... then look at
Dybala's... back to Aguero's... back to
Dybala's... one last time to Aguero's... finally,
back to Dybala's. That is what a young, hyped
South American who makes it looks like and
what he did to earn that hype. And it wasn't
so cut and dry. He had to work hard to
become what he is today. But he did more to
earn that hype than Dybala did. I think that's
fair for me to mention.
How is it a cop out? Look back and remember
half the kids who were said to be intelligent,
make their teammates better, superior passing,
etc. Then look at them today. Were the people
assigning these qualities to them wrong?
Maybe. But it's not so black and white. So
using these qualities people have assigned to
these kids as some kind of "proof" is just
laughable. "How can you not want this kid?
Look at his passing, his finishing, his pace,
he's got a great work ethic, he's intelligent"
and then BOOM 95% of those kids flop, drop
and roll into Serie B. Every year. So what
worth did those qualities assigned to the kids
really produce? Again, were they wrong? Can
you not at least admit that people use these
terms to describe EVERY young player with
hype? Can you not admit that these phrases
are thrown around A LOT to describe A LOT of
young players. Many of who flop? So how are
those words, those phrases that get assigned
to many many youngsters' showing promise
therefore EVIDENCE of their talent? They're
not. They're empty. They mean nothing. That's
my point. If the words you're using that I've
heard many times before (hence, me linking
the Iturbe thread not to compare the two skills
but to compare the hype, the words and
phrases being used and how meaningless
those phrases truly are to the discussion)
mean anything different now? Because you're
saying them? Because you've seen those
words in action through Dybala? Well, people
saw those exact same words in action through
Iturbe and through a hundred other youngsters
and 99 of those hundred other youngsters
flopped having the same hype. Iturbe included.
That's my point around the buzzwords. It is
very relevant to the discussion.
I can create an argument and I already did.
It's like Cerci and Immobile at Torino last
year. It's like any number of other players who
had amazing years in a system where they are
at the center and the entire offense goes
through them. And Dybala, with the offense
going through him every week, still is cold/hot/
cold this year. He hasn't scored against our
defense this year (something I predicted ).
Then you look at Dybala last year. Clueless.
Wasteful. Lack of confidence.
I do and I will. Hopefully not here next year for
over 20m...
Woah, buzzword overload. An emerging leader,
mature beyond his years, productive like
nobody's business. Tell me more.
You did tell me more and for that I thank you.
Responsible, supports his teammates. But does
he hold the room together, man?
Agreed. Sanchez is a boss. And Dybala might
end up costing us Sanchez type numbers. Body
of work. Look at them.
Agreed.
Indeed. Much fun.
By the way, I'm switching this to the Dybala
thread before we both get in trouble for the
Cavani thread going somewhat off-topic.
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For now I’m only thinking about Palermo and getting as many points as possible. 
I have my whole career ahead of me and I have to make the right choice.” :juve:
